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13amp rcd have I got the right use


bigcol

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Question as per little writing as per right hand side of page.
its s 13 amp fused connection rcd spur


 I bought this to protect if for instance the amp power go’s to high as in burnt out wiring.
As in 13 amp approx 3KW, but let’s say somone switches on 2 x 3KW heaters
total 6KW this 13 amp breaker will trip? Stoping wiring damage 

Please if you can tell me if I bought the right item?

Col

9AB03FE7-8844-425A-BB6E-A71ECD230C9D.jpeg

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The trip will not go if you put too much current through it, because this is residual current device, (RCD), not a circuit breaker for too many amps.

It however seems to have a normal mains fuse incorporated, so, if you put a 13A fuse in that, and then try to run 2 * 3Kw heaters through it, the fuse will probably blow, without the RCD tripping.

If you are looking for something you can reset in a "too many amps" situation, this isn't it!

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Hi I expected the bottom line.

rcd to go when too much kw, amps  put through the cable

I thought a rcd breaker does exactly this

what is it I need then please?

i put 3 kw plus through this cable, and nothing went,?

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1 minute ago, bigcol said:

Hi I expected the bottom line.

rcd to go when too much kw, amps  put through the cable

That's not what an RCD is.

If that's the problem you are trying to solve, you do not want an RCD.

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10 minutes ago, bigcol said:

How many kw would a 13 amp breaker or fuse take before popping?

So what do I need then please? You would have fault the fuse would have popped as well

If you want to protect yourself from electric shocks, then you want an RCD 

An RCD, or residual current device, is a life-saving device which is designed to prevent you from getting a fatal electric shock if you touch something live, such as a bare wire. ... RCDs offer a level of personal protection that ordinary fuses and circuit-breakers cannot provide.

 

If you want to avoid 'melting the cable' by overloading it (with too many amps) then you want a fuse / fuse box / breaker.

3Kw at 230 volts is 13 amps

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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So can anyone show me perhaps on a ebay listing what I need please?

and to use a fuse breaker I only need to use the neutral wire.

this is the wire that has melted before.

ive looked, to be fair I be happy with just a fuse. Easier to change a fuse that keep repairing the wire.

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You do not put single pole breakers in the neutral wire - they would go in the live wire.

It's ard to see how you can have melted the neutral wire with over current without doing the same to the live, (unless they are not the same thickness of course!)  What you are saying (and asking) is all a bit worrying.

Most boats with a 230V supply coming on board will normal incorporate something like this.....

Do you have one?

If so the circuit breakers in that should prevent you from drawing 6KW through any cable connected to it, you should not need to add anything further to give that protection.

EDITED TO ADD:

What on earth is powering this?  Is the shore supply itself not protected with a trip - most shore supplies are only 16A, and would trip long before you melted cables on board, (unless those cables are severely undersized).  Or are you on a 32 amp shore supply, (a rare beast!).

Edited by alan_fincher
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"and to use a fuse breaker I only need to use the neutral wire"

On the basis of the above may I respectfully suggest that you engage a competent electrician? If you have experienced melting cables it appears that your fuse or MCB (if any) is too highly rated and your wires too thin for the load you are trying to put through them.

Edited by Mike on the Wey
Typo
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1 minute ago, Flyboy said:

That's not a proper solution though, that's a bodge.  Something else somewhere should be protecting the cables - something like what I just included in my last post.

3 minutes ago, Mike on the Wey said:

"and to use a fuse breaker I only need to use the neutral wire"

On the basis of the above may I respectfully suggest that you engage a competent electrician? If you have experienced melting cables it appears that your fuse or MCB (if any) is too highly rated and your wires too thin for the load you are trying to put through them.


I was trying to be polite, but I do agree with this.......

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16 minutes ago, bigcol said:

So can anyone show me perhaps on a ebay listing what I need please?

and to use a fuse breaker I only need to use the neutral wire.

this is the wire that has melted before.

ive looked, to be fair I be happy with just a fuse. Easier to change a fuse that keep repairing the wire.

It does sound like you'd be best off with an electrician with good boats experience or a marine electrical specialist to do the install for you.

A typical simple install on a narrowboat would use a small 'garage consumer unit' with RCD and one 16A MCB feeding the whole boat.

A search on 'This forum' for 'garage consumer unit' would pull up some topics, a professional install shouldn't cost the earth.

Edited by smileypete
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17 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

That's not a proper solution though, that's a bodge.  Something else somewhere should be protecting the cables - something like what I just included in my last post.


 

I was assuming the op just wanted an additional fuse after the main consumer unit. 

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1 minute ago, Flyboy said:

I was assuming the op just wanted an additional fuse after the main consumer unit. 

I'd have thought it better to make sure the main consumer unit is doing its job, and has the right value breakers in it to protect the wiring coming from it.

To be able to melt cables, something is wrong in the first place.

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26 minutes ago, bigcol said:

So can anyone show me perhaps on a ebay listing what I need please?

and to use a fuse breaker I only need to use the neutral wire.

this is the wire that has melted before.

ive looked, to be fair I be happy with just a fuse. Easier to change a fuse that keep repairing the wire.

Assuming (a dangerous thing to do) that your main fuse board is correctly fused that would suggest that the cabling is undersized - have YOU installed any wiring on the boat, and if so did you size it to suit the appliances planned to be used, AND, fuse it below the current rating of the cable.

The fact you have melted cable suggests that the fuses are of a higher rating than the rating of the cable - if you are trying to run 3Kw appliances (13 amp) via (say) 0.5mm2 cable rated at 3 amps then you are eventually going to have a fire.

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10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Can you confirm you are actually talking about a 230 volt AC circuit please Col. If you are get an proper electrician in.

He must be - in Post #1 he states 3kw and 13 amp.

If he was talking 12v then 3kw would be 250 amps.

1 hour ago, bigcol said:
I bought this to protect if for instance the amp power go’s to high as in burnt out wiring.
As in 13 amp approx 3KW, but let’s say somone switches on 2 x 3KW heaters
total 6KW this 13 amp breaker will trip? Stoping wiring damage 

 

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1 hour ago, Flyboy said:

I was assuming the op just wanted an additional fuse after the main consumer unit. 

Yep thankyou

i have in place rcd board. And breakers

i also am plugged in to a 16 amp supply

the shore supply Mtr dosent seam to trip

i want this as a fail safe 

ive had the neutral 240 wire from the supply melt. Last week, it’s been okay for the last 8 years never happened before.

im also going to replace the main cable with a thicker cable, it’s the blue thick marine 3 wire cable as used on the leads.

as a competent electrician put the system in place, I’m going to put this on as a secondary fail safe.

 

i was asking a question re the neutral wire, and yes I got it wrong. Shoot me, But sometimes folks need advice.

in no way would I do somthing that I haven’t had advice or help with, even googled be fore I do somthing.

 

ive had recommended tradesman in my life, and some displayed jack shit I’m afraid.

only some seemed competent.

 

col

 

 

,

58698FD9-8834-46D2-BDBE-151742E283CB.jpeg

Edited by bigcol
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1 hour ago, bigcol said:

Yep thankyou

i have in place rcd board. And breakers

i also am plugged in to a 16 amp supply

the shore supply Mtr dosent seam to trip

i want this as a fail safe 

ive had the neutral 240 wire from the supply melt. Last week, it’s been okay for the last 8 years never happened before.

im also going to replace the main cable with a thicker cable, it’s the blue thick marine 3 wire cable as used on the leads.

as a competent electrician put the system in place, I’m going to put this on as a secondary fail safe.

 

i was asking a question re the neutral wire, and yes I got it wrong. Shoot me, But sometimes folks need advice.

in no way would I do somthing that I haven’t had advice or help with, even googled be fore I do somthing.

 

ive had recommended tradesman in my life, and some displayed jack shit I’m afraid.

only some seemed competent.

 

col

 

 

,

58698FD9-8834-46D2-BDBE-151742E283CB.jpeg

Remove one electric eel, knock it out and smoke it for tea in the chimney.

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2 hours ago, bigcol said:

ive had the neutral 240 wire from the supply melt. Last week, it’s been okay for the last 8 years never happened before.

Did it melt all along or just by a terminal.

If the latter then it could be that the installer has connected fine stranded wire into standard domestic eleccy bits without a 'bootlace ferrule' on the end of the bare ends.

The ferrule is needed as standard domestic eleccy bits are designed for solid core or normal stranded cable. Examples of bootlace ferrules:

bootlace_ferrules.jpg

If it's melted all the way along it sounds like it's overloaded and needs proper diagnosis.

Would help if you can post a photo of the wire in question and the stuff surrounding it.

Edited by smileypete
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39 minutes ago, smileypete said:

Did it melt all along or just by a terminal.

If the latter then it could be that the installer has connected fine stranded wire into standard domestic eleccy bits without a 'bootlace ferrule' on the end of the bare ends.

The ferrule is needed as standard domestic eleccy bits are designed for solid core or normal stranded cable. Examples of bootlace ferrules:

bootlace_ferrules.jpg

If it's melted all the way along it sounds like it's overloaded and needs proper diagnosis.

Would help if you can post a photo of the wire in question and the stuff surrounding it.

Thankyou for that, it melted about an inch, near a terminal.

ive just tested the electrics by putting a 3 kw heater on, and coffee machine on, nothing tripped, no wires melted.

so I’m having it looked at tomorrow. We’re here and everything working okay, as most of the week, just a bit unnerving, why the trips didnt go.

 

thankyou

 

col

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16 minutes ago, bigcol said:

  why the trips didnt go.

 

thankyou

 

col

The trip didn't go because you didnt draw more than the designed maximum current, it was just the stat of that cable for some reason was unable to carry that designed current. 

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