Forth and Clyde Closure

[AllanD]

Our walking group walked from Maryhill Locks to Cloberhill Locks this morning and yes the bridge does not appear to have been opened for a while.  I took note of the 3 mooring pontoons just west of lock 27 with water point and small toilet /shower block and elsan disposal but no sign of electrical connection.  Hardly residential.

Edited March 20, 2018 by AllanD

[13-10]

17 minutes ago, ronnietucker said:

Not sure if it's the same bridge, but an email from Steve Dunlop (Chief Exec) via Paula says that the bascule bridge at Bard Avenue (Knightswood - surprise surprise, near where I live) is knackered.

They then kindly attached a timetable of opening times of bridges that you probably can't get to anyway. Nice.  

Had the same e-mail

Translation- Dear Boater, up until now we've treated you with utter contempt. Now we can't even be bothered to do that

Edited March 20, 2018 by 13-10

[ronnietucker]

9 minutes ago, AllanD said:

Our walking group walked from Maryhill Locks to Cloberhill Locks this morning and yes the bridge does not appear to have been opened for a while.  I took note of the 3 mooring pontoons just west of lock 27 with water point and small toilet /shower block and elsan disposal but no sign of electrical connection.  Hardly residential.

... and the two swans who seem to love basking on the grassy shore, during summer, aren't too friendly either. One of them seems to love lunging at me as I cycle past. Even though I'm going slow and keeping well away from them. Swines.

I cycle from Clobberhill to Maryhill Fire Station some mornings to go to work. 

3 minutes ago, 13-10 said:

Had the same e-mail

Translation- Dear Boater, up until now we've treated you with utter contempt. Now we can't even be bothered to do that

Am I allowed to reply to this guys email with a torrent of polite abuse?

I do like how Steve has used Paula's email address to make sure no one replies directly to him. Very sneaky.

[13-10]

4 minutes ago, ronnietucker said:

Am I allowed to reply to this guys email with a torrent of polite abuse?

I do like how Steve has used Paula's email address to make sure no one replies directly to him. Very sneaky.

I think you'll be wasting your time. Burning bag of dog s@@te through the letter box, or the contents of someones compost toilet

[rusty69]

10 minutes ago, ronnietucker said:

... and the two swans who seem to love basking on the grassy shore, during summer, aren't too friendly either

I haven't met a friendly swan yet. I once spent time untangling a swan from fishing line and hooks. He never even invited me round for a coffee afterwards.

Edited March 20, 2018 by rusty69
i before e, cept after c

[Iain_S]

4 hours ago, ronnietucker said:

(snip). 

Am I allowed to reply to this guys email with a torrent of polite abuse?

I do like how Steve has used Paula's email address to make sure no one replies directly to him. Very sneaky.

It was probably written by Paula, anyway, with her operations hat on.

Just seen the email (for some reason, S.C. only send emails to Ann, not me)  Haven't really digested it yet, but first reaction is that they're taking the mick big time ***. The only people who are doing 7 days a week are the volunteers on the east side, and even they are screwed for locks 17-20 by Bonnybridge! I feel a copy of the email will be making its way to several MSPs ...

I wonder if SC are thinking of cutting staff?

 

*** If I wrote what I really think, I'd be banished to the other place full time 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Iain_S

[Iain_S]

Just to show the current operating restrictions :Lowland-Canals-operating-hours-2018.pdf

The opening times for Leamington Bridge mean that it will be very difficult for hire boats to moor at Edinburgh Quay, so that they will have to moor outside, which will annoy the residential boats somewhat, as some cannot leave their mooring when there is a boat moored opposite. "Trained, authorised user" operation is also suspended, so that will be one wide beam trip boat cluttering up the moorings west of the bridge as well   . 

A similar situation in Glasgow, although that will not affect the hire boats, as they cannot get there, but anyone wanting to moor at Spier's wharf will need to stay for a few days. Also, boats which have come up from Bowling will not be able to get into Spier's wharf until the following day. 

Looks like its planned that the volunteers on the East side (Locks 3-16) are going to be busy, with extended operating hours!

On their website, and repeated in their email, is

Quote

With 50 sea to sea transits last year on the Lowland canals and the temporary suspension of Bonnybridge and Twechar lift bridges affecting navigation, it makes good business sense to trial a different way of operating this year. This forms part of wider review of the way Scottish Canals can best meet customer demand with the resources available to us which also includes the proposed move to user operations on the Lowland canals in 2019.

The low number of sea to sea transits is not down to lack of demand, it's lack of supply. The planned minimum depth of the Forth and Clyde went from 2.3 metres to 1.8 metres when the new sea link at Grangemouth was built, and the 1.8 metres is problematic in places. 2 metres is quite a common draught for yachts likely to use the canal, and many with lesser draught have been put off from making the transit due to reported depth problems. One has to ask what business Scottish Canals think they're running ! 

 

Edited March 25, 2018 by Iain_S
Adjusting text size

[AllanD]

And who is going to get to Auchinstarry to use the 2 days of facilities operation? Unless they operate Twechar lift bridge no-one from the west can reach it and those East of Bonnybridge can't get there either. 

[Up-Side-Down]

4 hours ago, AllanD said:

And who is going to get to Auchinstarry to use the 2 days of facilities operation? Unless they operate Twechar lift bridge no-one from the west can reach it and those East of Bonnybridge can't get there either. 

While down at Bowling the queue of vessels waiting to head east, in conjunction with the 30 – 40 boats than usually moor there on residential and leisure moorings, are stretching the facilities to the limit? 'What a way to run a railway!'

[Waterway2go]

8 hours ago, Iain_S said:

 

 

 

The low number of sea to sea transits is not down to lack of demand, it's lack of supply. T

 

The quoted figure of 50 transits last year is also inaccurate.    Waterways Trust volunteers operate the Maryhill flight of locks: last year they put 85 boats through and Scottish canals staff did a few more.  I suspect the number is actually 100, but Scottish Canals maybe assume they are all on return tickets so have halved the number. 

[Iain_S]

11 minutes ago, Waterway2go said:

The quoted figure of 50 transits last year is also inaccurate.    Waterways Trust volunteers operate the Maryhill flight of locks: last year they put 85 boats through and Scottish canals staff did a few more.  I suspect the number is actually 100, but Scottish Canals maybe assume they are all on return tickets so have halved the number. 

Should they not have doubled it?? 

[WotEver]

8 hours ago, Iain_S said:

Should they not have doubled it?? 

Yeah, I was thinking the same. 

[Jokar]

I've just joined canal world due to this post, my boat is berthed at Bowling,  this may have been mentioned but I've not as yet read all posts.

Scottish  canals have decided that due to the canal being partially  closed they think this is a good time to pilot new opening hours. So Bowling will now only be manned 4 days per week, and only from 9am til 5pm, effectively  closing the canal to boat movements,  and stopping boats getting onto the clyde due to their further restrictions.

WHO SAID BOATING WAS A LEASURE  ACTIVITY?

 

 

[Iain_S]

Link to opening hours at #182.

The more I look at them, the less sense they make. Assuming the bascule bridges get fixed, a boat going to the Glasgow Branch from Bowling will be stuck outside Speir's wharf overnight. Similarly, at the east end, the hire boats won't be able to get in to Edinburgh Quay from Monday afternoon until Wednesday afternoon, and if they're there on Wednesday afternoon, they're stuck there until Friday morning. From observation, a lot of them arrive at Edinburgh quay early Monday afternoon. Lochrin basin is going to get a bit crowded!

[Waterway2go]

39 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

Link to opening hours at #182.

The more I look at them, the less sense they make.

And anyone wishing to go down Maryhill and Temple locks to the visitor mooring at Temple, can only do that on a Wednesday, and only if they arrive at Maryhill Top Lock at 0900 hrs.  These locks have been operated by volunteers from the Waterways Trust, so there is no marginal cost to BW/SC.     I suspect these restrictions are just a fit of pique becuase the Scottish Government have not bailed them out after they decided not to hold a contingency for major repairs.

[Jokar]

I messaged Paula Carson, pointed out I will lose more use from my boat at Bowling obviously  due to the Tides,  ie 9pm tide on a Friday I could get out at 6.30pm till 7.30pm, if I finish  work at 4.30pm on a Friday I can't get to Bowling before they close, so weekend is wasted, if it's a long weekend  I'd try and get out on the Thursday  night, but they are now closed on Thursday, I'd normally want back in on the Monday, canal is closed Monday and Tuesday. I asked if this was being reviewed or a definite,  as if it's happening I'll need to find a berth outside the canal, answer I got was was it's a definite  at least for 2018 season, they don't give a shit about boaters.

 

[Jokar]

This was the email I sent Paula Carson:

Hi Paula, can we get more definite  information  on the 4 day week and hours being cut, I need to know if this is a definite, as I will need to find a new home for my boat, and I won't be payin to get a boat safety inspection carried out if I'm not staying on the canal.

 

JB 

this was the reply:

Hi John

All the information sent last week is definite as a trial for this year anyway.

Paula

 

Paula Carson Customer Relations Supervisor

 

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Jokar
Add on

[Waterway2go]

Sounds like a possible case of breach of contract.

Canal Licence conditions say:

"Our obligations 6.1 We will do our best to keep the Waterways open for cruising. The Licence fees are calculated on the assumption that you will be affected by closures from time to time and accordingly, refunds of Licence fees, and associated Mooring fees, will not be made for closures as described in this condition. The age of the Waterways will inevitably mean occasional unforeseen failure requiring closures. Essential maintenance work may also require closures but, except in emergencies or for other unavoidable reasons, we shall try to arrange our maintenance work to cause you the least disruption. This means that most work requiring closures will be done between the beginning of November and the end of March. There may be other occasions when, due to causes beyond our reasonable control, we have to close part or, (exceptionally) all of the Waterways."

1. They are not "doing their best"

2. these closure are not "from time to time"

3. Current closures are not for maintenance reasons.

4. New operating hours at Bowling and restrictions at Maryhill locks and Leamington bridge are entirely within their reasonable control.

[Jokar]

This is the complaints  instruction for Scottish canals, as taken from their Web site

If You Have A Complaint
We are committed to provide excellent levels of service and constantly strive to meet the rising expectations of our 
customers and visitors. We welcome feedback on where service can be improved. Issues of concern to waterway visitors 
can usually be resolved by talking them through with one of our people, either face-to-face or by telephone. We recognise 
that sometimes this may not be appropriate, or you may feel your concerns have not been properly addressed after 
talking them through with us. If you wish to make a formal complaint you should do so in writing. For all matters you 
should send your letter to the relevant Manager who is responsible for the canal (see below for contact details). For 
matters relating to the services of Central Departments, you should write in the first instance to Head of Legal Services 
at our Glasgow Office. If after this stage you feel your complaint has still not been handled satisfactorily, you should 
write to Head of Legal Services at our Glasgow Office asking for it to be re-considered at our second level. She will ensure 
it is considered by a senior manager without direct line management responsibility for the area of the complaint. If you 
remain dissatisfied after this internal process is completed, you may take your complaint to the Scottish Public Services 
Ombudsman, whose services are available free of 

[Peter X]

I really hope that the boaters affected by Scottish Canals' apparent policy of closing their canals down will all get busy and embark on this complaints procedure. In my (limited) experience of English law, the way to go about this sort of thing is to follow the procedure, arguing your cause politely but firmly, steadily escalating the complaint as you get ignored or otherwise fobbed off at each stage, so that when you end up at the point where a complaint comes to court the ombudsman, judge or whoever will be on your side. They don't like it if anyone tries to jump a stage without attempting to settle a dispute out of court.

Please find the time and the determination to do this, because as I've said earlier in this topic I think what happens in Scotland may well have an impact on what happens in England in future; if the managers of Scottish Canals find themselves ordered by the powers that be (backed by pressure from the media and the general public) to jump to it, do the maintenance and re-open everything, or better still get sacked, that will send a powerful message to DEFRA and whoever's in government as 2026 approaches about future funding of CRT.

[Jokar]

I've finally read through all the previous  comments, we all agree then Scottish  canals want static boats to make the canal bank look nice to sell property  and live aboard boat moorings, we all need to make a formal complaint  using the correct procedure,  and I'm presuming  they will need to respond  to  each and every complaint,  once they do bugger all, we then need to esculate the complaint, if the only way to get things turned around is play by their rules, then that's what we need to do.Another body who are involved  in the case is the inland  waterways trust, they are having a meeting with Scottish  canals in the near future.

[Jokar]

Has anyone complained to Paula Carson by telephone  or by email or letter? Did you receive a reply? Contacting Paula is the first part of the complaints procedure.

[haggis]

I don't think us boaters have much faith in the ombudsman route, especially as there isn't one specifically for canals but there have been a lot of letters winging their way to the Transport minister at Holyrood and MSPs. That is where the purse strings are held and that is where members of the Scottish Canals Board are selected. 

Not up here but I did take a case to the Waterways Ombudsman down south and believe me it was not a quick process. Count it in years and when the canals are being neglected the way they are, we can't afford years to get them back to being properly managed. 

Haggis

PS I won my case! 

[AllanD]

After considerable delays dealing with SC I telephoned Paula Carson to help in getting my final bill on giving up my mooring and also the electric account. She told me someone would phone me within the week and true to her word I was contacted by SC with an acceptable conclusion.  I thanked her for her help.

[Jokar]

AlanD, I'm presuming  you don't want to go into detail, but would you email or call me to let me know if the outcome is a help to others like myself complaining about the service cuts?