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Original battery arrangements on the 1930s GUCCCo fleet?


alan_fincher

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OK narrow boat historians......

It is generally stated that the new build GUCCCo boats from the 1930s were the first to have electric lights from new, both for navigation and (presumably) cabin lighting.

Generally the engines were Nationals or Russell Newberys, which I think were always hand start, so no starter battery was needed for them.

The question I have is how were the lighting batteries charged?  I had always assumed that the engines probably had dynamos fitted from new, but looking at old footage of one being started does not show any obvious belt drive to a dynamo at the flywheel end.

So did the boats have the capability of keeping their own batteries charged, and, if so, does anybody know the detail.ed arrangements.

Or were in fact batteries charged at GUCCCo depots, and swapped in and out of oats between trips.  (Obviously butty batteries would have had to be swapped in and out anyway, even if the motor always had the capability to charge them).

Does anybody know the definitive answer to this, please?

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A very interesting question. Indeed early engine publicity shots give no obvious indication of a dynamo fitted. However there is a wiring diagram for a GUCCCo boat in the archives although I don't have a copy of it here I reckon it would be a good place to look for a clue. The batteries may have been "accumulators" too similar to those that existed a long time ago in schools and for wireless sets.

This picture shows accumulators with 6x2volt banks at Bulls Bridge:

http://collections.canalrivertrust.org.uk/bw192.3.1.13.12

Edited by Laurence Hogg
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15 minutes ago, Laurence Hogg said:

A very interesting question. Indeed early engine publicity shots give no obvious indication of a dynamo fitted. However there is a wiring diagram for a GUCCCo boat in the archives although I don't have a copy of it here I reckon it would be a good place to look for a clue. The batteries may have been "accumulators" too similar to those that existed a long time ago in schools and for wireless sets.

This picture shows accumulators with 6x2volt banks at Bulls Bridge:

http://collections.canalrivertrust.org.uk/bw192.3.1.13.12

Well that photo shows they had a stock of them as well as facilities for multiple charging so I would guess the suggestion they were changed out fro recharging is right

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I’m sure one of the Idle Women books mentions regularly moving the butty battery to the motor for charging.  indeed Capricorn still has the original battery shelf riveted to the bulkhead over the flywheel.  Room for a largeish car battery but probably not the batteries shown being charged at Bulls Bridge. No idea of original dynamo arrangements on Nationals though.

Paul

Edited by Paul H
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16 minutes ago, Laurence Hogg said:

This picture shows accumulators with 6x2volt banks at Bulls Bridge:

http://collections.canalrivertrust.org.uk/bw192.3.1.13.12

It also fairly clearly shows what I assume to be bus bars with lots of trailing leads with clips to go on to terminals, so it seems was a charging station as well as a store.

The question then is were batteries routinely cycled through here for recharging, or was the charging only for initial charging of new batteries yet to go into boats.

2 minutes ago, Paul H said:

I’m sure one of the Idle Women books mentions regularly moving the butty battery to the motor for charging.

The problem, as ever, with the idle women books is trawling through three of them to see which one may have contained what it is one thinks one remembers seeing!

(I'm also mindful the idle women books talk of using longer windlasses so less turns are required to open a paddle fully!)

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24 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Photo?  Were all the GU boats fitted with a battery shelf here? I don't recall seeing any evidence of a shelf on the Big Woolwichs

I've no idea about Big Woolwiches but here is the set-up on Capricorn

Paul on Capricorn

Edited by Paul H
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34 minutes ago, Paul H said:

I’m sure one of the Idle Women books mentions regularly moving the butty battery to the motor for charging.  indeed Capricorn still has the original battery shelf riveted to the bulkhead over the flywheel.  Room for a largeish car battery but probably not the batteries shown being charged at Bulls Bridge. No idea of original dynamo arrangements on Nationals though.

Paul

(Pedant alert)

That's not over the flywheel, (whether it's a Russell, a National or an 'H' series Lister)!

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Thanks Paul. You said "over the flywheel" so I was expecting something on the front engine room bulkhead. 

I have seen similar on Big Woolwichs, but being welded rather than rivetted on I assumed they were a later fitment.

Edited by David Mack
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2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Thanks Paul. You said "above the flywheel" so I was expecting something on the front engine room bulkhead. 

I have seen similar on Big Woolwichs, but being welded rather than rivetted on I assumed they were a later fitment.

That is on the front engine bulkhead!

2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Thanks Paul. You said "above the flywheel" so I was expecting something on the front engine room bulkhead. 

I have seen similar on Big Woolwichs, but being welded rather than rivetted on I assumed they were a later fitment.

5a735985bf4f7_Capricorn016.jpg.2bdb534847a311637f275f8a0ffa981a.jpg

Edited by Paul H
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Yep ok mea culpa - or as the kids would (irritatingly) say today “my bad.”  Battery shelf over the gearbox.  It’s a few weeks since I.ve been on the boat and I have no sense of direction at the best of times!

Paul

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6 minutes ago, archie57 said:

- covered some time ago!

Excellent.....

Picture copied into this thread.....

nO5FXnU.jpg

 

HOWEVER (!)

I can see absolutely no evidence of such an arrangement here.......

image.png.0a1b9198422fdc57a2815ae578dab1ff.png

Edited by alan_fincher
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