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Are the Canals going to Last?


brassedoff

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4 hours ago, Philip said:

Just using my local canal (to where I keep my boat) as an example; during this current off-season there have been 4 locks along the cut which have had new gates installed at both ends and there are now very few locks along here with gates older than 20 years, aside from the steel gates. They do seem to like to keep on top of it to be fair on this one (it's popular!) compared to others, but I certainly wouldn't say standards are slipping in infrastructure. If anything wooden gates are being replaced too soon; 20-25 year lifespan currently and still mostly in reasonable nick when replaced, 10-15 years ago there were some gates from the 50s knocking around.

C&RT claim they replace 180 lock gates per year. Here are the actual figures

https://www.thefloater.org/floater-august-2017/more-lock-gates-than-ever-not-really
 

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4 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

You are lucky if that is the situation on your local canal.
Another issue down here is a large number of locks all vying to get on the list for grouting in a bid to stop leakage through the walls.  For this they are competing against all other required work nationally, and, (other than a very few), generally not getting the funding.  Sooner or later another wall collapse at one of the affected locks seems a strong possibility.

 

The fact that rebricking and grouting is being done in a slapdash and unchecked quality manner is obvious to me now. Large sums are being spent on works that will fail far short of their intended lifespan.

I pointed out the Filance Lock rebricking in penkridge, re-opening delayed by CRT for a weekend to let the mortar go off,  a decision reversed less than 24 hours later by CRT who opened the lock.

Result,  wet mortar and holes already letting water in behind the new bricks

 

20180129_104454.jpg

I then get to Braunston locks, bottom lock shut from Nov 6th to Dec 12th (opened early to allow boats to get to Foxton for illuminated parade). The bottom lock had extensive rebricking and repairs. The mortar was so soft you could stick your finger an inch into it ( UCC report) and the section close to the dry dock now looks like the Trevi Fountains 

20180131_134449.jpg

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Coming towards the Anchor at Hartshill the canal is full of rubbish, camping gas cylinders, cushions, domestic rubbish and plastic bags, a film of diesel stretches for over a mile towards Springwood Haven where a cruiser has been sunk for weeks.

A small laminated notice says CRT warning, sunk boat in navigation....

20180130_161524.jpg

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T&M . Colwich Lock no longer has a top gate walkway plank. The stretch below Colwich lock has the old wooden bank supports flapping across the cut for a length of 100's of feet. 

S&W . Gaping holes in towpaths and lock landings, some of these next to locks which have been closed for maintenance. (Filance, Penkridge).

North Oxford the embankment from Ansty to the M6 crossing is probably going to be the next big breach. Some areas the towpath has noticeably dropped in the last few years and only the angled stone edges are higher than the water. On the offside, a 30 metre stretch of concrete re-inforcing blocks have been lifted by trees being blown over.

 

Yes, Athy and Naughtycal,  I do get out boating, and see this as endemic across the system.

I am also rather annoyed that Great Haywood is only open in the afternoons nowadays.

20180129_144739.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

@matty40s

You'll be banished to the C&RT bashing norty-step (along with many others) by the "C&RT can do no wrong club".

Is that the same norty-step that the "C&RT do everything wrong" club use? 

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This is not going away, the decline will be swift as the people who used to patch and fix are no longer directly employed. 

Now we have to wait for a CRT press release and £x00,000 project to renew/rebuild an important 240 year old asset that failed (subcontracted to Kier or someone).

6 minutes ago, brassedoff said:

 Bloody Haywood, I woke up on breeze blocks with missing Anodes their and a Trolley rapped around my rudder.

You were lucky, CRT had spent £200,000 rehoming lost trolleys from Nuneaton as part of their respecting heritage directive, one obviously made a dash for freedom on the way to Stoke. 

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44 minutes ago, matty40s said:

This is not going away, the decline will be swift as the people who used to patch and fix are no longer directly employed. 

Now we have to wait for a CRT press release and £x00,000 project to renew/rebuild an important 240 year old asset that failed (subcontracted to Kier or someone).

The question was whether canals will last; which is a bigger question than the rights and wrongs of CRT. I would say with some certainty that canals will outlast CRT. Whether they leave the fabric in a better condition than they found it is a different question. For the public as a whole probably yes; for the boater probably not.

My experience is that these things come in cycles and all too often it takes a significant and usually adverse event to change the direction of the leadership of large organisations. They tend to be driven by politics and politicians don't care about the day to day upkeep of assets until something that might embarrass them happens. The good news stories are in expansion be it new (reopened) canals or new cycle paths and in my brief encounters with Mr Parry it is with the politics of such issues that his time seems mostly occupied.

Having worked in what I think is a comparable environment for over 25 years and one in which the kinds of politically induced change that created CRT have been in play for much longer I come to the conclusion that ultimately the beast itself is bigger than the folk who are responsible for it.

The patient may suffer but it won't die.

JP

 

Edited by Captain Pegg
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13 minutes ago, Athy said:

I do not remember suggesting that you didn't go out boating.

By saying "I agree with NC" You suggested that folks go out boating instead of criticising on here. I boat 12 months a year and it is getting worse.

Edited by matty40s
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7 hours ago, matty40s said:

By saying "I agree with NC" You suggested that folks go out boating instead of criticising on here. I boat 12 months a year and it is getting worse.

Many who cruised the Llangollen Canal even up to the 1980s would probably disagree with this; as far as this one goes at least now the canal is well dredged, the lift bridges much safer than they were, and the feeder finally seems to have good stability to protect against a breach. That's not to mention the provision of moorings, marinas and facilities blocks and as I mentioned earlier regular lock maintenance. Then of course there is the Montgomery, which wasn't possible either until 20 odd years ago. Perhaps the Shroppie, Llangollen and northern T&M are more 'looked after' than others due to being popular, but things certainly are not getting worse around this area.

Edited by Philip
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7 hours ago, matty40s said:

By saying "I agree with NC" You suggested that folks go out boating instead of criticising on here. I boat 12 months a year and it is getting worse.

I see what you mean but, from memory, my agreement was with her positive attitude.

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10 hours ago, Iain_S said:

....................their interests are not those of the charity, but are those of themselves. CaRT (and Scottish Canals!) might perform better if those at the top were passionate about canals, rather than their careers.

Not to mention the "top dogs" pay offs when they leave after merging with EA as there will be real work to do and less time for photo calls - Hmmmmmm so that's what the bond issue is for??

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

I see what you mean but, from memory, my agreement was with her positive attitude.

 

So you disagree with people expressing their concern about the state of the waterways? Surely expressing such concern is more constructive than burying one's head and hoping for the best.

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18 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

So you disagree with people expressing their concern about the state of the waterways? 

No. Do you? It is always instructive to read diverse reports and opinions, but I am (or try to be) of the glass-half-full rather than glass-half-empty persuasion.

I must say that in 2017 we found the Oxford Canal to be better maintained than in previous years - in particular, much offside tree growth had been lopped, so we could see round more bends and get past moored craft more easily.

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11 hours ago, matty40s said:

The fact that rebricking and grouting is being done in a slapdash and unchecked quality manner is obvious to me now. Large sums are being spent on works that will fail far short of their intended lifespan.

I pointed out the Filance Lock rebricking in penkridge, re-opening delayed by CRT for a weekend to let the mortar go off,  a decision reversed less than 24 hours later by CRT who opened the lock.

Result,  wet mortar and holes already letting water in behind the new bricks

 

20180129_104454.jpg

I then get to Braunston locks, bottom lock shut from Nov 6th to Dec 12th (opened early to allow boats to get to Foxton for illuminated parade). The bottom lock had extensive rebricking and repairs. The mortar was so soft you could stick your finger an inch into it ( UCC report) and the section close to the dry dock now looks like the Trevi Fountains 

20180131_134449.jpg

Is it just me or shouldn't this be passed on to someone who should might care - I'm happy to do so if someone tells me who.

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16 minutes ago, Athy said:

 

I must say that in 2017 we found the Oxford Canal to be better maintained than in previous years - in particular, much offside tree growth had been lopped, so we could see round more bends and get past moored craft more easily.

I have to disagree - we cruised down to the Thames last year ran aground on the summit numerous times and got stuck in at least 3 locks (esp Sommerton) generally due to lack of clearing behind gates and bulging side walls and then when we wanted to come back we had to go via the GU as the summit was closed due to lack of water - pretty poor for what is the most used waterway in the country I believe.

Like you I try to be one of the 1/2 full brigade - a bit like the Oxford and Leicester Arm summits in the summer!

 

 

Edited by Halsey
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11 hours ago, matty40s said:

Coming towards the Anchor at Hartshill the canal is full of rubbish, camping gas cylinders, cushions, domestic rubbish and plastic bags, a film of diesel stretches for over a mile towards Springwood Haven where a cruiser has been sunk for weeks.

A small laminated notice says CRT warning, sunk boat in navigation....

20180130_161524.jpg

Ouch. Not nice. Some poor bugger' s home gone up in smoke. Good luck to him/her/zer !

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13 hours ago, Iain_S said:

 Once the charity is large enough, or if it is a large organisation which transforms itself into a charity, the motivation of persons joining it at the top changes : their interests are not those of the charity, but are those of themselves. CaRT (and Scottish Canals!) might perform better if those at the top were passionate about canals, rather than their careers.

That's never going to happen, once those at the top start recruiting staff they put in place senior staff who want to nurture the boss, promote their own career, never upset the applecart. I had a problem getting paid for work done for an international "christian" charity, I was patted on the head, for a while, then when I mentoned publcity I got paid [as in money in my bank] within an hour. This was after two phone calls to the UK HQ, in London,  five emails to the "sub-contractor" Apparently they are "old fashioned" and prefer "the cheque's in the post" approach, yeah, like that's ever going to arrive.

Edited by LadyG
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12 hours ago, matty40s said:

North Oxford the embankment from Ansty to the M6 crossing is probably going to be the next big breach. Some areas the towpath has noticeably dropped in the last few years and only the angled stone edges are higher than the water.

The same could have been said of the stretch in Rugby by the old water point and VMs. Indeed I did say exactly that. It's now been fixed. The canal is deteriorating all the time; that's the nature of the beast, so you will always find sections which are close to needing  work.The question is, does CRT notice, and is it able to fix the deteriorating bits in time?  The existence of stuff which has not yet been fixed, but has not yet failed catastrophically,  is not evidence that it doesn't or can't.

 

Cheers,

 

MP.

 

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Just to add a direct comparison of the present state of the waterways to pre C&RT: Last year (amongst other routes) I completed the Cheshire Ring, Four Counties Ring and the Leeds & Liverpool. The last time I completed these routes together in their entirety was 2011 ( pre C&RT) and I cannot recall any noticeable deterioration from a boating perspective. I did notice a significant improvement in cleanliness of the canal in places such as Burnley and Blackburn. 

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The loss of skilled staff, and knowledge is the real worry.

Repairs carried out inappropriately by contractors with little waterways know how, will not be as effective.

But I agree with Capt Pegg, the waterways will survive (longer than C&RT)

Rog

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