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Get ready for the onslaught.


Ray T

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As hire boaters we did both - a mixture of pubs and drinking/eating on board.

Of course until we cottoned on we realised you couldn't count on a pub that was in the Nicholson's guide still actually being in existence when you got there!

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1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

:devils_advocate_mode_on:

Well being strictly accurate, they bring a lot of money to the operators of the hire fleet.

Obviously those companies pay hire boat rate licence fees to CRT, but the fact there are now not that many hire boats doesn't actually contribute that big an income to CRT.  If you measured income for every lock full of water used, for example, you could argue CRT are not charging enough for intensively used hire boats, versus private ones, generally not covering the same mileages in a year.


As an aside, I have been interested by canal-side pub owners & landlords telling me they get little trade from hire boats, because many choose to stock up at Tescos, and "party" at the boat, rather than go repeatedly to pubs, (also expensive, of course, if you have spent a fortune hiring the boat).  As the majority hirings are now no more than half a week, hirers often turn up with enough supplies for most of their hiring, and hence do not spend a lot in the areas they pass through.
 

I accept these are generalisations, and that many hirers with enough money in their pocket will have elaborate meals out every day, but it has been suggested to me that this is not the hire boat norm.

Absolutely spot on. Yes hire fleet owners and of course their employees benefit so that's a good thing but I can from quite extensive first hand experience state that most hirers do indeed stock up ( usualy by supermarket delivery on change over day )  with all manner and masses of stuff and do not spend much anywhere else. 

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Perhaps we should just ban them then?

:rolleyes:

Preserve the canals only for the 'privileged' people who can afford to own a boat.

On the one hand we say they damage the system but on another day it's pointed out that lots of boat movements help preserve the navigation,

one thing hire boats do do is move as people are generally unwilling to spend hours of their precious holiday tied up.

Edited by MJG
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13 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

And a hire boat causes more wear and tear on the system in a week than most private boats do in a year, for only about three times the licence fee. 

I bet you cannot provide one shred of evidence that supports that.

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14 hours ago, brassedoff said:

Ramming season.

Dayboats with kids hanging off the roof and Ale Cans everywhere.

I saw a boat dented last year, all the chaps hanging off the back burst into laughter.

 

I'm not saying all collisions are avoidable, but as mature and experienced boaters it's our responsibility to anticipate a water-skier tug at every blind bridge'ole and take evasive action. Insisting on our "rights" and getting dinged is never a desirable outcome.

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3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Correct. Just empirical, in the form of my observations. 

And I bet you don't have any evidence that I'm wrong either!

I don't have to prove anything. You are the one that made the rather bold statement about the extent to which hire boats may damage the system.

 

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1 minute ago, MJG said:

I don't have to prove anything.

 

And nor do I. It is my opinion, formed from my observations.

It is also my opinion you are wearing your grumpy trousers today. Probably because you've been stiffed for £12 by your bank. I have no evidence for this either, beyond my observations but it is a discussion forum, for airing opinions innit!

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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Indeed. And empirical evidence is still evidence, just not very good quality evidence. 

You can only assume that hire boats cause more damage to the system based on observation (which is what empirical evidence is). What you cannot reasonably do is statistically quantify it as a multiple of the damage caused by private boats. Unless you wish to put hire boaters in a very bad light of course.

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

And nor do I. It is my opinion, formed from my observations.

It is also my opinion you are wearing your grumpy trousers today. Probably because you've been stiffed for £12 by your bank. I have no evidence for this either, beyond my observations but it is a discussion forum, for airing opinions innit!

It is also my opinion that you are displaying the oft seen 'elitist' private boater attitude that crops up whenever hire boats come under discussion, but as you say it is a discussion forum, for airing opinions innit!

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Just now, MJG said:

You can only assume that hire boats cause more damage to the system based on observation (which is what empirical evidence is). What you cannot reasonably do is statistically quantify it as a multiple of the damage caused by private boats. Unless you wish to put hire boaters in a very bad light of course.

 

I said nothing about hirers damaging the system, I only mentioned wear and tear - a different concept. 

Grumpy shoes too today, I reckon!

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I said nothing about hirers damaging the system, I only mentioned wear and tear - a different concept. 

Grumpy shoes too today, I reckon!

You do take hair splitting to the olympic standard some times.

OK then substitute 'wear and tear' - the basic point actually still stands.

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

No it doesn't.

I'm off out to fix some boilers now, Mr Grumpy!

Of course it does - 

Enjoy the rest of your day working.

I'm off to walk the dog then pick the granddaughter up from nursery.

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Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

It's not work, I LURVE fixing stuff. And then I get paid. BRILLIANT!!!!

Byeeee

I get paid - but dont work.

Which in my book is a darn sight better.

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36 minutes ago, MJG said:

Perhaps we should just ban them then?

:rolleyes:

I've not suggested that have I, only pointed out that they are hardly a cash cow for CRT.

I actually think the apparent slow demise of hire boating is quite sad, but I'm not quite sure where the blame lays.  True the operators now want an arm and a leg for a summer hiring, but part of the rseason most hire boats are so bloody expensive is that it is perceived the customer demands far far more than used to be the case, and the whole thing has gone totally up market.  For a start you are not going to find half a dozen people packed into a 40 - 50 foot boat - just 4 berths in a near full length one now being really quite common.  Some operators are now finding good business by bringing back smaller, more basic, boats, with the costs shared by more people for the size of the boat.

Of course, hire boats bring lots of thongs to the waterways....

They allow people for whom the investment in their own boat would make no sense to taking boating holidays.

In time, some of those people decide to become boat owners, and that may well not have happened without hire boating.

But despite the large amount of notice CRT give to the hire boat industry, the number of hire boats operating is probably continuing to diminish.

43 minutes ago, MJG said:

Preserve the canals only for the 'privileged' people who can afford to own a boat.

 

Some hire boat operators would willingly rid the canals of the lines of live-aboard boats.  If that happened, where would the "privilege" lie then?

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Just now, alan_fincher said:

I've not suggested that have I, only pointed out that they are hardly a cash cow for CRT.

I actually think the apparent slow demise of hire boating is quite sad, but I'm not quite sure where the blame lays.  True the operators now want an arm and a leg for a summer hiring, but part of the rseason most hire boats are so bloody expensive is that it is perceived the customer demands far far more than used to be the case, and the whole thing has gone totally up market.  For a start you are not going to find half a dozen people packed into a 40 - 50 foot boat - just 4 berths in a near full length one now being really quite common.  Some operators are now finding good business by bringing back smaller, more basic, boats, with the costs shared by more people for the size of the boat.

Of course, hire boats bring lots of thongs to the waterways....

They allow people for whom the investment in their own boat would make no sense to taking boating holidays.

In time, some of those people decide to become boat owners, and that may well not have happened without hire boating.

But despite the large amount of notice CRT give to the hire boat industry, the number of hire boats operating is probably continuing to diminish.

It wasn't primarily aimed at you Alan - I just tire sometimes of the negativity about hire boaters on here.

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13 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:


Of course, hire boats bring lots of thongs to the waterways....
 

Oooo errr, never saw any in our hire boating days, down the weed hatch or anywhere else. :D

Actually to me the hire boats are a succession to the working boats of days of yore, there to earn money.

Edited by Ray T
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For the benefit of visitors to London, I offer the following list of types of transport in order of how acceptable it is to start an unnecessary conversation with a stranger.

The Tube: Absolutely not, except in an emergency. What are you thinking of?!

Rush hour trains, especially if there's a high proportion of City office workers.

Other trains.

Most buses.

Croydon Tramlink.

Night buses. All human life is there, you will meet some very strange strangers, but they'll be quite sociable. Too sociable on occasions.

Minicabs, Uber etc.

Black taxis. The driver won't mind if you start a conversation, but be aware that it will continue until your destination and you'll wish you'd kept quiet.

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23 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Of course, hire boats bring lots of thongs to the waterways....

 

10 minutes ago, Ray T said:

Oooo errr, never saw any in our hire boating days, down the weed hatch or anywhere else. :D

Actually to me the hire boats are a succession to the working boats of days of yore, there to earn money.


Actually that has brought us to one of the truly most obvious reasons why hire boaters, (or at least stag party hires!), should not be allowed on CRT's waterways.....

DSCF5941.JPG.8693fe8207217ae0fa62c3b4cd26ee11.JPG

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I suspect that perception of the benefits and behaviour of hire boaters may depend on the area you come across them, on the stretch from Braunston to Hatton for instance the hirers i've encountered seem both competent and polite in general, but other areas-near London being one, you meet more stag groups with all the idiocy that is expected from them. 

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