OTLEY

[BWM]

29 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

I have yet to discuss OTLEY's renovations with any Yard at length as it is difficult for them without the boat to inspect, but I will be talking to a couple of Yards and I will listen to what they have to say.

I would have thought side cloths could be attached to steel gunwales by clamping them down with steel strip (instead of the wooden battens on wooden gunwales), but the best way of holding down the steel strip I would need some advice on. The 'ringoles' could be welded in place above and below the steel gunwales at the normal intervals as has been done on a few other boats. At present I am intending to have all renovations carried out professionally and I am sure the biggest problem will be lead time by whoever does the work .

I observed Graeme at Stockton creating the gunwales for Gorse out of steel, using shapes cut from pipe to produce the cut outs. The end result was impressive. 

[Alan Rose]

Purton has wood decks all-round .Fitted BW in 1962/3

 

[alan_fincher]

19 minutes ago, Alan Rose said:

Purton has wood decks all-round .Fitted BW in 1962/3

 

Welcome to the forum Alan.

Most historic boat owners seem to think it is the place from hell, so I hope you know what you are getting in to!

(Another Alan, just arrived at a freezing cold "Flamingo", and now trying to get it warm before we succumb to hypothermia!)

[pete harrison]

19 minutes ago, Alan Rose said:

Purton has wood decks all-round .Fitted BW in 1962/3

 

All of the Yarwood built G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. motor's were built with oak guwales, both around the cabin / engine room and throughout the length of the hold. These help to provide a slip resistant surface provided they are maintained properly 

[alan_fincher]

1 minute ago, pete harrison said:

All of the Yarwood built G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. motor's were built with oak guwales, both around the cabin / engine room and throughout the length of the hold. These help to provide a slip resistant surface provided they are maintained properly 

And guarantees that if you have original engine room and/or back cabin that the bottoms of them are likely rotted away with rust!

[pete harrison]

4 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

And guarantees that if you have original engine room and/or back cabin that the bottoms of them are likely rotted away with rust!

Of which OTLEY has neither 

[alan_fincher]

1 minute ago, pete harrison said:

Of which OTLEY has neither 

Other than for historical authenticity, that could be a real bonus, if I'm honest.

Flamingo's engine room is largely original, but has already cost us some money, and in time will certainly at some point cost us more.

The gunwales, however are now all steel.  About the only wood remaining, other than rear doors and slide, is (most of!) the back end beam, (which is also going to cost us money......)

[magnetman]

It's good that Otley has gone to a knowledgeable enthusiast

 

3HD46 is not ideal but not too terrible for moving the boat initially. 

I wonder if an RN or National is going to find its way into this vessel?

[pete harrison]

38 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Other than for historical authenticity, that could be a real bonus, if I'm honest.

But the cabin and engine room on OTLEY are historically authentic as they are a part its history and have been in place during its carrying activity. In common with many other Yarwood built former G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. narrow boats OTLEY's original cabin was removed by 'British Waterways' in the 1950's and replaced with a wooden one, which in turn was replaced by a welded steel cabin in about 1980. The original engine room was replaced in the late 1960's and was in place for its last four trips to Croxley in 1970  

edit = OTLEY's current steel back cabin was in place by 1983 when it carried bricks to Birmingham, although the square section handrails have since been replaced with handrails similar to those fitted by Yarwood's.

Edited February 7, 2018 by pete harrison

[pete harrison]

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

It's good that Otley has gone to a knowledgeable enthusiast

3HD46 is not ideal but not too terrible for moving the boat initially. 

I wonder if an RN or National is going to find its way into this vessel?

The 3HD46 has been in OTLEY since 1997, and the boat has carried a considerable tonnage with this engine in place. Replacing this engine is not at the top of my list of priorities, providing it runs reliably and is sufficiently powerful to satisfy my needs (it certainly sounds O.K.). I do quite like the idea of having an engine that 'enthusiasts' will turn their noses up at, and I am certainly not looking to return OTLEY to its original specification i.e. riveted cabin / engine room, riveted bottom and footings, National engine, funnel exhaust e.t.c..

For the record prior to the 3HD46 OTLEY was fitted with a Lister JP2 that was removed due to it being frost damaged. I have the serial number of that engine and it has a known history to me right the way back to being new 

[Graham_Robinson]

'I would have thought side cloths could be attached to steel gunwales by clamping them down with steel strip (instead of the wooden battens on wooden gunwales), but the best way of holding down the steel strip I would need some advice on. The 'ringoles' could be welded in place above and below the steel gunwales at the normal intervals as has been done on a few other boats.'

Side cloths pinned to gunnel by shaped (angled) wooden battens and secured by m/c screws tapped into box section gunnel. Staples attached to battens secure side cloth strings then as you say gunnel rings welded to box section to secure top strings.

You can have mine............it's all coming off..............

[pete harrison]

3 minutes ago, Graham_Robinson said:

'I would have thought side cloths could be attached to steel gunwales by clamping them down with steel strip (instead of the wooden battens on wooden gunwales), but the best way of holding down the steel strip I would need some advice on. The 'ringoles' could be welded in place above and below the steel gunwales at the normal intervals as has been done on a few other boats.'

Side cloths pinned to gunnel by shaped (angled) wooden battens and secured by m/c screws tapped into box section gunnel. Staples attached to battens secure side cloth strings then as you say gunnel rings welded to box section to secure top strings.

You can have mine............it's all coming off..............

Are you going back to wood gunwales ?

If I keep the steel gunwales it will be with a view to going back to wood in the future, but I am most likely going to go back to wood straight away as the current steel gunwales only go as far as the mast and need widening. Once I get the boat I will seek professional advice as I am sure the costs either way will be marginal 

[Graham_Robinson]

Are you going back to wood gunwales ?

Yes,from back bulkhead forrad.

Corollas in for gunnels too.

Perhaps we should buy a tree between us!

 

[stagedamager]

We have a metal 30x5mm mild steel upstand fully welded along it's length with a second strip to clamp the cloths. It works really well but we did have steel gunnels to start with.

Kind regards

Dan

[MtB]

3 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

(Another Alan, just arrived at a freezing cold "Flamingo", and now trying to get it warm before we succumb to hypothermia!)

 

You mean you can't turn the central heating ON from your phone, an hour before you get there??!

[Alan Rose]

4 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Welcome to the forum Alan.

Most historic boat owners seem to think it is the place from hell, so I hope you know what you are getting in to!

(Another Alan, just arrived at a freezing cold "Flamingo", and now trying to get it warm before we succumb to hypothermia!)

Nice to hear from you, all ok with you all

 

[JamesWoolcock]

2 hours ago, Alan Rose said:

Nice to hear from you, all ok with you all

 

Hey Alan & Angie

Welcome with the same provisos as Alan!

But if you don't do the Facebook gossip, here is a good place to visit.

I've learned loads.

See you soonish, no doubt.

James

[IanM]

Photos I took in 2006 which I believe is Otley on the outside of Cygnus.

Otley by Ian, on Flickr

Otley by Ian, on Flickr

[roland elsdon]

When I put steel gunnels on my boats I had a very slight lip on the inside, then drilled and tapped the steel to I could bolt down hard wood battens to hold sideclth .Hours of fun on two full length boats countless drills and taps , I used bronze machine screws. 

for the top cloths I we cut down staples and welded them to the steel with a ring through. Current boat has inch  u shacked  bolted through not at attractive but practical. The gunnels on our boat are very nasty but historic and necessary because the original angle is bad, and to put wood back on would involve replacement££££££

i guess it a decision to restore( very costly) or evolve( marginally cheaper)

sounds like you prefer evolution, it makes for an interesting boat, everything less than 75 years old torn off and returned to the 30s sounds like a recipe for sterility.

 

[koukouvagia]

2 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

When I put steel gunnels on my boats I had a very slight lip on the inside, then drilled and tapped the steel to I could bolt down hard wood battens to hold sideclth .Hours of fun on two full length boats countless drills and taps , I used bronze machine screws. for the top cloths I we cut down staples and welded them to the steel with a ring through.

 

We did exactly the same on our boats.  We also put sealant between the wooden batten and the steel gunwale.

[Admiral]

I think Graeme at Stockton Dry Dock re-bottomed and re-footed Otley a wile ago now. He did say they only did the hold and not under the back cabin and engine room. I think he is much partial to Large Northwich's even though I keep getting him to work on josher's!!

[magnetman]

M5 stainless eyebolts might be an option for steel gunnels.

 

 

These ones are quite nice. They are remarkably small and tidy with a nice little shoulder to improve their strength. The more usual M6 size would be a bit big and look wrong.

Just had some of these delivered from china the other day. The thread is a good length for through-bolting and nutting which would be more secure and less work than drilling and tapping.

 

I'd use dewalt hss-co bits to drill the steel myself.

 

Eye bolts:

 

Look at this on eBay  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253207614338

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by magnetman

[pete harrison]

33 minutes ago, Admiral said:

I think Graeme at Stockton Dry Dock re-bottomed and re-footed Otley a wile ago now. He did say they only did the hold and not under the back cabin and engine room. I think he is much partial to Large Northwich's even though I keep getting him to work on josher's!!

The works on OTLEY was completed at Stockton in 2003, and included removal of knees for descaling and riveted back in. Under the engine room was re-bottomed when the engine was changed in 1997 and I am assured under the cabin is overplated.

During OTLEY's renovations in 2003 ARUNDEL was built in the dock alongside, and as measurements were taken from OTLEY then ARUNDEL is almost its clone 

[Alan Rose]

17 hours ago, JamesWoolcock said:

Hey Alan & Angie

Welcome with the same provisos as Alan!

But if you don't do the Facebook gossip, here is a good place to visit.

I've learned loads.

See you soonish, no doubt.

James

And you to James. All fine, just waiting to get away during the summer

Alan and Angie

[roland elsdon]

It was 96 when I did Atalanta I think it's still the same cloths....