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Tonks Family - Traded on canal boat "Italy" ?


Lesley Simcock

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Hi I am sorry if this isn’t the right place for this post.

My ancestors where Tonks who travelled the canal between Staffordshire, Wolverhampton and Birmingham and I’m trying to find any information on the last boat they used it was called “Italy”, I maybe wildly off the mark but I wondered if you may have any ideas as to where I should be looking 

many thanks

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This is the right place, there are lots of people on here who know about the old boats.

The first thing to try is the boat index on canalplan, but I typed Italy into that and drew a blank. Bear in mind that sometimes boats get renamed, and a lot of old boats with wooden hulls have rotted away.

It'll help if you have a bit more information; what type of boat was it?

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I knew Jack Tonks, knocked off boating 1955 ("Banstead" and "Uttoxeter" his last pair IIRC) died fairly recently in Hillmorton. To confuse matters, there was another Jack Tonks who worked on the maintenance, not sure if he'd been boating, lived in Atherstone when I met him.

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We have several researchers of the canal boat families in the forum, the most prolific poster probably being Jeannette Smith-Harrison.  If she sees this, she may well know something about the Tonks family.

However, if you don't already know boating families tended to be much intermarried, so the same surname will crop up in multiple parts of the country....

There are two Tonks references here for example....

http://collections.canalrivertrust.org.uk/bw192.3.2.2.24.7

http://collections.canalrivertrust.org.uk/bw197.4.1.2.24

Other sources show an Edna Carter who was born Edna Tonks, but connect her to the Ovaltine boats that travelled almost exclusively between the Warwickshire coal fields and Ovaltine's factory at Kings Langley, Herts, so I doubt would have cause to be in Birmingham or Wolverhampton.

Can you supply more detail of the Tonks ancestors you are interested in, particularly forenames and dates they are known to have been on the boats?  This will help someone with access to family trees see if they know about your line.

Other researchers on here know about the boats, more than the families, but I'm guessing there will have been multiple boats called Italy, so knowing what company it worked for, or at what dates would help find the right one.

EDIT: To add a friendly world of advice....

This is a busy forum, and many of our members will only look at posts they think may be of interest.  The thread title "Canal boat" gives few clues to the likely enquiry - a better title would be something like "Tonks boating family on boat Italy", and is more likely to get noticed by those who might have some information.

If a moderator sees this comment, perhaps they could amend the thread title for you, as that's not something you can now change yourself.

Edited by alan_fincher
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48 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Other researchers on here know about the boats, more than the families, but I'm guessing there will have been multiple boats called Italy, so knowing what company it worked for, or at what dates would help find the right one.

I have a few notes on boats, and surprisingly my records include only three Company's that had boats named ITALY - one boat health registered by the Anderton Company in March 1883, one for Fellows Morton and Company health registered in October 1884 and one for Fellows Morton and Clayton Ltd. health registered in April 1905 (replacing the ITALY that had been owned by Fellows Morton and Company). Dependant on the date that the OP is interested in I would put my money on either of the latter two boats, but my records only go as far back as the 1870's with any reliability and I am currently unable to link ITALY and Tonks. 

Although families fall outside my field of research I have Tonks being involved with various carriers throughout the canal system including:

Anderton Company, Stoke on Trent

William Boyer, Paddington

Fellows Morton & Clayton Ltd., Birmingham

John William Jeens, Gloucester

Jacob Rice (& Son), Gloucester

Severn & Canal Carrying Company Ltd., Gloucester

Sidney Strong, Hillmorton

Albert Odell, West Drayton

George Fletcher, Sandiacre

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1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

We have several researchers of the canal boat families in the forum, the most prolific poster probably being Jeannette Smith-Harrison.  If she sees this, she may well know something about the Tonks family.

However, if you don't already know boating families tended to be much intermarried, so the same surname will crop up in multiple parts of the country....

There are two Tonks references here for example....

http://collections.canalrivertrust.org.uk/bw192.3.2.2.24.7

http://collections.canalrivertrust.org.uk/bw197.4.1.2.24

Other sources show an Edna Carter who was born Edna Tonks, but connect her to the Ovaltine boats that travelled almost exclusively between the Warwickshire coal fields and Ovaltine's factory at Kings Langley, Herts, so I doubt would have cause to be in Birmingham or Wolverhampton.

Can you supply more detail of the Tonks ancestors you are interested in, particularly forenames and dates they are known to have been on the boats?  This will help someone with access to family trees see if they know about your line.

Other researchers on here know about the boats, more than the families, but I'm guessing there will have been multiple boats called Italy, so knowing what company it worked for, or at what dates would help find the right one.

I have Edna Tonks as being from the third generation of boating folk of the Tonks family originally from the Nuneaton area. The common boating ancestor is William Tonks b.1850. She was a cousin of Bill Grantham and Doris Collins through her mother Harriet Tyler who appears to have originally been from a SU/T&M boating family who moved south later on.

I can't immediately find any record linking them to a boat named Italy.

JP

Edited by Captain Pegg
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2 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I have Edna Tonks as being from the third generation of boating folk of the Tonks family originally from the Nuneaton area. The common boating ancestor is William Tonks b.1850. She was a cousin of Bill Grantham and Doris Collins through her mother Harriet Tyler who appears to have originally been from a SU/T&M boating family who moved south later on.

I can't immediately find any record linking them to a boat named Italy.

JP

Looking further at my records I have made an assumption in the above that I suspect will either be confirmed or corrected by folks who will know better than me.

JP

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Lesley i have answered another  post on another forum .

The person you asked about John Tonks married Martha Smith feb14th '1887 at St Micheals the Angels Middlewich witnessed by George Rowley , Sarah Brooks & Thomas Smith (Father)

Martha died in 1906 & he married Rachel Done in1907

Daughter Selina witness  at her wedding  where from my Harrison boat people

On Selina's Wedding cert John gives his occupation as lockkeeper 

He poss married before Martha  i have a name but no wedding records as proof

.I have some copies of Tonks family photos given to me  from a Tonks family member from about 15 years ago you are welcome to them 

1891 John & Marha with 2x daughters are in Odd Rode 

1907 still in Odd Rode but this time with wife Rachel

 1 William Tonks also a boatman  married into the kendall boating family in  & most of their children where baptised @ Buckby Wharf 

a 2nd William Tonks married into the Green boating family connected to myself & John boswell

Sorry i can find no link in my records  with any of the Tonks to the boat Italy

 

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17 hours ago, alan_fincher said:


EDIT: To add a friendly world of advice....

This is a busy forum, and many of our members will only look at posts they think may be of interest.  The thread title "Canal boat" gives few clues to the likely enquiry - a better title would be something like "Tonks boating family on boat Italy", and is more likely to get noticed by those who might have some information.

If a moderator sees this comment, perhaps they could amend the thread title for you, as that's not something you can now change yourself.

Title edited 

General note - these threads are always fascinating and informative, to me at least, I can seldom contribute but learn a lot about the human geography and history of the canals from them. More please :) 

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Jeannette, I have Rachael Dunn and Martha Smith as having married John in my family tree I am also aware that there was another wife but for the life of me I can’t remember her name, I had seen something about Odd Rode but now you have solidified that for me, as for the “Italy” perhaps that was a red herring 

I would appreciate seeing your photographs.

I am at a loss as what to say except your amazing I only made this post a few days or so ago and the help and advice I’ve received is truly wonderful and I thank you all.

In the space of a few days I have learned more than I had in the months I spent trying here,there and (it felt like) everywhere, it’s now obvious to me that if you want to know about boats and the boating community come here there seems nothing you guys don’t know.

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A 1901 census record shows John Tonks b.1857 at Brierley Hill, Staffordshire with his wife Martha b.1866 at Etruria, Staffordshire and their son John Tonks b.1899 at Middlewich, Cheshire aboard a boat named "Italy" at Rode Heath.

This is obviously the Tonks family referred to above by Lesley and Jeannette and appears to be a different family from the Tonks family from the Nuneaton area referred to in some posts above. I can link to both from my own ancestors but cannot link them directly together.

JP

Edited by Captain Pegg
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i think John Tonks first wife was Agnes  otherwise known as Nancy they married 26th feb 1881 @ Christ Church Stone in Staffordshire i am not 100% sure of her surname as she gives a different name from her fathers in some records but the same surname in others 

Well spotted Captain Pegg now Lesley knows that the boat name was not a red herring .

I also have some baptism records of Tonks children being baptised at Brentford but like you have not been able to tie them in with one of the two main Tonks familys 

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I have just found a Tonks in my actual family tree (that's genuine relatives rather than boating connections) who is not seemingly connected to either of the above families. This is James W Tonks b.1901 West Bromwich. He married Ada Cutler who was descended from the Neal family. No suggestion in my records that this Tonks was from a boating family although Ada Cutler was certainly the daughter of a Black Country boatman.

JP

Edited by Captain Pegg
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  • 7 months later...
1 hour ago, Tracy W said:

Interestingly, ITALY'S sister boat ViIENNA was on display on the Cauldon Canal just outside the flint mill at Cheddleton for many years.  I believe the new owners changed the name when the flint mill sold the boat!!

Aside to the main conversation the boat Vienna can also be named Verbena, and it has carried both names in relatively recent years, (I'm not sure which it is currently).
 

This dates back to the First World War when certain boats such as Vienna which had obvious connections with Germany were renamed to something that did not.  There were several to which this name change idea was applied

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I have just got back from Vienna where I was advising a local museum about the construction of a half-sized wooden Wiener Neustadt Canal boat. The canal was based on English narrow canals, and some of the boats were similar to BCN or MB&BC boats, while others seem to have been based on local traditional construction. The canal's original engineer, Sebastian von Maillard, published a book on canal building in 1817 which I have just translated. Hopefully it will be published next year when I have finished writing the introduction explaining why a book on building a narrow canal was published in Austria. You can find an original copy, with figures, at http://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/24960/1/0/.

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  • 1 year later...

Hi

On 27/01/2018 at 12:49, Lesley Simcock said:

Hi I am sorry if this isn’t the right place for this post.

My ancestors where Tonks who travelled the canal between Staffordshire, Wolverhampton and Birmingham and I’m trying to find any information on the last boat they used it was called “Italy”, I maybe wildly off the mark but I wondered if you may have any ideas as to where I should be looking 

many thanks

Hi Lesley, I am trying to trace my family tree, which is difficult. So I was pleased to see some link as my mother was born on a boat called 'Italy'. My grandmother and grandfather also got married in Wolverhampton. So there could be a strong link.

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  • 3 years later...

to Tracy W. ... My Great Grandfather was Reuben Tonks ( not a boatman). His father was John Tonks, boatman born c1806. Reuben's brother William was a Boatman like his father. His son John Tonks born 1858 was also a boatman and in 1901 was living with a "Martha" in Odd Rode on the Boat Italy.

I have John Tonks ,  born in Brierley Hill 1858 to William & Selina Tonks. I found several records of John in census records, with different birth dates and different birth places, but am reasonably sure it's the same John ... not positive, just reasonably.

Is this the same John Tonks that is your GG Grandfather?  My records are slightly different to yours with reference to Nancy 1882.

Is it possible to see/obtain a copy of the entries in your family bible?

I have never found a record for the birth of John Tonks 1806.

I'm not sure how this site operates, but I look forward to hearing from you.

Bob

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