3/8 or 10mm gas pipe??

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Although 5/16" and 8mm are probably close enough that it is fine in that case

As are 1/2" and 15mm.

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, Chas78 said:

Thanks for all the advice very much appreciated so its 3/8 all the way and now to my next question where do i buy the 3/8 fittings to convert the Alde Bubble Tester to imperial and whats part number? 

You could always decide to go for a complete 'flexible hose' system which is completely 'legal & compliant with the BSS, and, avoids all the hassle of copper pipe installation.

[bizzard]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

As are 1/2" and 15mm.

1/2'' and 13mm.

[alan_fincher]

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

As are 1/2" and 15mm.

Really? Surely if it is gas pipe we are talking about then it is always outside diameter quoted. 0.5 inch is 12.7mm - nothing like 15mm.  Unless I'm missing something it is water pipe where that is true?

 

[LadyG]

19 minutes ago, Chas78 said:

Thanks for all the advice very much appreciated so its 3/8 all the way and now to my next question where do i buy the 3/8 fittings to convert the Alde Bubble Tester to imperial and whats part number? 

Of course this will probably invalidate Alde warranty.

Could you just buy a handheld gas detector? and use a boatsafe gas fitter who issues you a BSS Certificate?

If you do it yourelf you will almost certainly invaldate BSC/probably insurance if it all goes wrong.

I don't think you have thought this through.

Edited January 25, 2018 by LadyG

[Jrtm]

4 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Really - how does that work then?

3/8" olives are closer to 9.5mm - if the parts are properly manufactured surely you have no chance of forcing a 3/8" olive on to a 10mm pipe?

This sounds plain wrong, and poor advice.

I know people try to go the other way, (10mm compression on 3/8" pipe), but the 0.5mm slack that exists before tightening I understand makes that highly risky.

I don't think you can ever safely mix 3/8" imperial with 10mm metric

(Although 5/16" and 8mm are probably close enough that it is fine in that case - perhaps you are getting confused with that?)

You can mod 3/8 fittings by drilling out to 10mm use a 10mm olive and you can easly convert inperial sizes to modern sizes, ive not done it with gas (dont have any). But all my fuel and oil lines are 3/8 fittings on the engine and ive drilled them to 10mm to accept 10mm pipe and now if i neef to replace i can go out and just buy 10mm pipe and 10mm olives

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Unless I have missed something, both the BSS (in section 7) and the RCD refer to...

I don’t believe you’ve missed anything, no. What’s your point?

[Dave Payne]

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Of course this will probably invalidate Alde warranty.

Could you just buy a handheld gas detector? and use a boatsafe gas fitter who issues you a BSS Certificate?

If you do it yourelf you will almost certainly invaldate BSC/probably insurance if it all goes wrong.

I don't think you have thought this through.

I dont think you have a clue what you are saying.

[ditchcrawler]

22 minutes ago, Chas78 said:

Thanks for all the advice very much appreciated so its 3/8 all the way and now to my next question where do i buy the 3/8 fittings to convert the Alde Bubble Tester to imperial and whats part number? 

The answer could be here 

 

[system 4-50]

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Of course this will probably invalidate Alde warranty.

Could you just buy a handheld gas detector? and use a boatsafe gas fitter who issues you a BSS Certificate?

If you do it yourelf you will almost certainly invaldate BSC/probably insurance if it all goes wrong.

I dont think you have a clue what you are saying.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Chas78 said:

Thanks for all the advice very much appreciated so its 3/8 all the way and now to my next question where do i buy the 3/8 fittings to convert the Alde Bubble Tester to imperial and whats part number? 

I bought our bubble tester from Midland Chandlers, who provided two adapters for our 3/8" pipe. They were simple to fit and have tested out OK. Dn't have a number to hand sorry, but a quick phone call should do the trick.
 https://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Of course this will probably invalidate Alde warranty.

Could you just buy a handheld gas detector? and use a boatsafe gas fitter who issues you a BSS Certificate?

If you do it yourelf you will almost certainly invaldate BSC/probably insurance if it all goes wrong.

I don't think you have thought this through.

What on earth are you talking about?

When I bought my bubble tester I asked the supplier to include 3/8” fittings for it, which they did. I unscrewed the 10mm fittings and replaced them with the 3/8” fittings. 

How does that invalidate a warranty? It’s just a pipe fitting. How does that invalidate the BSS?

2 minutes ago, Dave Payne said:

I dont think you have a clue what you are saying.

Me neither. She’s simply spouting nonsense. 

[LadyG]

Just now, Dave Payne said:

I dont think you have a clue what you are saying.

So, someone who has no qualifications or experience can install a new gas system and still be compliant with his BSS........ that is obviously incorrect.

[WotEver]

5 minutes ago, billybobbooth said:

You can mod 3/8 fittings by drilling out to 10mm use a 10mm olive and you can easly convert inperial sizes to modern sizes, ive not done it with gas (dont have any). But all my fuel and oil lines are 3/8 fittings on the engine and ive drilled them to 10mm to accept 10mm pipe and now if i neef to replace i can go out and just buy 10mm pipe and 10mm olives

That’s all well and good but is the commonly available 10mm pipe seamless and with a wall thickness of at least 0.8mm?

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

So, someone who has no qualifications or experience can install a new gas system and still be compliant with his BSS........ that is obviously incorrect.

Yes they can. It is not incorrect. 

[LadyG]

4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

That’s all well and good but is the commonly available 10mm pipe seamless and with a wall thickness of at least 0.8mm?

Yes they can. It is not incorrect. 

 

4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

That’s all well and good but is the commonly available 10mm pipe seamless and with a wall thickness of at least 0.8mm?

Yes they can. It is not incorrect. 

 

Edited January 25, 2018 by LadyG

[Chas78]

I didnt want this to turn into a slanging match and do really appreciate the advice given good bad or indifferent so please pack it in 

[Guest]

Although I have fitted a bubble tester, I do find it a PITA to use owing to it being in the gas locker (would be easier without a cratch.) A manometer is much easier to use, no modification required to the system, and cost me 2 quid to make. 
The advantage of the Bubble tester is that you can give it a quick zap when changing the bottle as you are in there anyway.

[bizzard]

13 minutes ago, WotEver said:

That’s all well and good but is the commonly available 10mm pipe seamless and with a wall thickness of at least 0.8mm?

Yes they can. It is not incorrect. 

I think he's drilling out the fittings not the pipe bore.

[springy]

6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

So, someone who has no qualifications or experience can install a new gas system and still be compliant with his BSS........ that is obviously incorrect.

My understanding is that they should be "Competant" to comply with BSS, but, for someone working on their own non residential boat, there are no other specific requirements.

springy

[LadyG]

I've asked BSS for an answer, they will respond in due course.

13 minutes ago, Chas78 said:

I didnt want this to turn into a slanging match and do really appreciate the advice given good bad or indifferent so please pack it in 

But how do you know which is which?

This is a discusson forum, you know how it works, The Mods step in if they don't like the way a thread is going.

[WotEver]

5 minutes ago, bizzard said:

I think he's drilling out the fittings not the pipe bore.

Yes, I understand that but one of the arguments against using 10mm pipe in the past was that it didn’t comply due to thinner wall thickness. So I was asking if maybe that had changed and 10mm seamless pipe was now >0.8mm wall thickness. 

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I've asked BSS for an answer

To what?

5 minutes ago, springy said:

My understanding is that they should be "Competant" to comply with BSS, but, for someone working on their own non residential boat, there are no other specific requirements.

springy

That is correct. 

[mayalld]

30 minutes ago, LadyG said:

So, someone who has no qualifications or experience can install a new gas system and still be compliant with his BSS........ that is obviously incorrect.

No, you think it obvious that it shouldn't be allowed.

However, in the real world it is allowed.

[nicknorman]

36 minutes ago, LadyG said:

So, someone who has no qualifications or experience can install a new gas system and still be compliant with his BSS........ that is obviously incorrect.

Why not actually read the relevant legislation - the GSIUR 1998 - rather than making up what you would like it to say?

[nicknorman]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Unless I have missed something, both the BSS (in section 7) and the RCD refer to :

ISO 10239:2008(E) "Small craft — Liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) systems

6.2 Piping
6.2.1 Only solid drawn copper or drawn stainless steel piping, which are galvanically compatible, shall be
used for rigid supply lines. Wall thickness for piping shall be greater than 0,8 mm for piping up to 12 mm
outside diameter and a minimum of 1,5 mm for an outside diameter greater than 12 mm.
6.2.2 There shall be no joints or fittings in piping passing through engine compartments.
6.2.3 Metallic LPG supply piping routed through engine compartments shall be protected by conduit or
trunking, or supported by non-abrasive attachments which are no more than 300 mm apart.
6.2.4 Fittings for connections and joints in piping shall be metallic and of any of the following types:
⎯ hard soldered connections;
⎯ cutting ring fittings in accordance with ISO 8434-1:2007, Table 4 (see also 6.4.2, 6.4.4, 6.4.5);
⎯ copper rings on copper piping; stainless steel rings on stainless steel piping;
⎯ connections in accordance with EN 560.
Jointing compound for flared fittings or flared rings shall not be used.

The 2008 edition is well out of date. There was a 2014 edition, and now there is a 2017 edition. Both the 2014 and the 2017 reduced the minimum wall thickness to 0.6mm up to 12mm and 0.9mm for greater diameters. So presumably the whole argument for using old imperial pipe over modern metric pipe is out of the window (although I'm not actually sure what the wall thickness of 10mm pipe would be.

[LadyG]

24 minutes ago, mayalld said:

No, you think it obvious that it shouldn't be allowed.

However, in the real world it is allowed.

Nope, I've made minor maintenance to my own boat, but really just replacements,  [and indeed refused to drill a hole in my GF boat as recommended by a Senior Bod].

The the BSS Certificate was issued by an examiner, and now a major modification is being made by a random person, so the Certificate no longer applies to the system he examined, I am convinced I have seen some paperwork that  covers this,, of course I can't find it  

Edited January 25, 2018 by LadyG