Thermostat for BMC 1500

[Tony Brooks]

15 minutes ago, TNLI said:

I keep thinking there must be a pump some place, BUT it just occured to me that the chap who restored the engine might have got his comment about it is a raw water cooled version mixed up with a keel cooled version, as there is still a need for a raw water pump for the gearbox oil cooler. 

I'm voting in favour of it being keel cooled, but not sure if I will find out later this afternnon, as the shop chap in charge of the storage area only seems to be there half the time.

 

As long as the gearbox oil cooler is fitted into the return from the skin tank AND its water connections are large enough (I don't think yours are) then it does not need another pump. However that implies a dry exhaust system. A wet exhaust system will need another pump so in that case you can use raw water for the existing gearbox oil cooler.

[TNLI]

4 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

As long as the gearbox oil cooler is fitted into the return from the skin tank AND its water connections are large enough (I don't think yours are) then it does not need another pump. However that implies a dry exhaust system. A wet exhaust system will need another pump so in that case you can use raw water for the existing gearbox oil cooler.

So you think it's OK to feed warm water from the gearbox cooler outlet, rather than place it in the inlet ?? 

 

I was planning on using 3/4 inch pipes and hoses at present. The resistance inside a one meter square tank will be minimal and the length of the 2 pipes will total less than 3m. That should result in a a good flow rate, IF the gearbox cooler inlet and oulet ports are not too small. 

  Planning on using a can of this cooling system additives to make sure the cooling system, including the box cooler are clean out:

 

Liqui Moly Radiator Cleaner Speed Flush Protects Cleans Cooling System 300ml 4100420018046 | eBay

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

Description	A concentrate specially developed for cooling systems in general but particularly those in motor vehicles. Dissolves contaminants containing oil and lime in radiators, heating systems, lines and engines. Modern formula containing complexants with active cleaning agents.
Content	300 ml
Application	Add contents to the cooling water. Then start up the heater and, depending on the level of contamination, let the engine run at operating temperature for 10 – 30 min. After finishing cleaning, drain the coolant/cleaner mixture, thoroughly flush the cooling system with water and refill it according to the manufacturer’s instructions. The content (300 ml) is sufficient for 10 l of coolant (dosage 1:33).
Package Unit	20
Pallet Unit	1960
Area of application	Cooler

Edited October 20, 2021 by TNLI

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, TNLI said:

So you think it's OK to feed warm water from the gearbox cooler outlet, rather than place it in the inlet ?? 

 

I don't understand what you think. I never said it was OK to feed warm water into a gearbox oil cooler. You dtill do not seem to have grasped the way the different cooling systems are piped and connected.

 

The gearbox oil cooler needs feeding the coolest water available so:

 

On a dry exhaust keel/tank cooled boat that will be from the keel cooler/tank OUTLET pipe.

 

On a wet exhaust keel/tank cooled boat that will be somewhere on the raw water pipe work 

 

One a heat exchanger boat, wet or dry exhaust, it goes before it enters the heat exchanger. Many manufacturers fit it between  sea inlet and pump but its less likely to suffer priming problems caused by air leaks if it goes between raw water pump and heat exchanger/

 

On a direct raw water cooled boat it goes anywhere in the raw water circuit before it enters the engine.

 

If the skin tank/keel cooler is the correct size then the water leaving it will be only be a bit warm, possibly less than hand hot.

[TNLI]

38 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I don't understand what you think. I never said it was OK to feed warm water into a gearbox oil cooler. You dtill do not seem to have grasped the way the different cooling systems are piped and connected.

 

The gearbox oil cooler needs feeding the coolest water available so:

 

On a dry exhaust keel/tank cooled boat that will be from the keel cooler/tank OUTLET pipe.

 

On a wet exhaust keel/tank cooled boat that will be somewhere on the raw water pipe work 

 

One a heat exchanger boat, wet or dry exhaust, it goes before it enters the heat exchanger. Many manufacturers fit it between  sea inlet and pump but its less likely to suffer priming problems caused by air leaks if it goes between raw water pump and heat exchanger/

 

On a direct raw water cooled boat it goes anywhere in the raw water circuit before it enters the engine.

 

If the skin tank/keel cooler is the correct size then the water leaving it will be only be a bit warm, possibly less than hand hot.

OK, so you think I might need a bigger cooler, or an inline 12v water pump to increase the flow rate. I will measure the cooler pipes, but I did not get a reply from the starage chap today, so no idea when I will be able to see my engine. Storage facilities do not like visitors. It's supposed to be emplyees only, which is partly why I'm trying to find a small cheap HIAB or stern mini fork lift truck to move my BMC 2 miles to my fathers garage. 

 

I will need to add a glow plug horn type button switch and without the glow plug specs, don't know if I need to use a relay or just a big heavy push button one. Wild guess but the 4 glow plugs might draw around 50A plus. Anyone know the resistance or amps figure ??

Edited October 20, 2021 by TNLI

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, TNLI said:

OK, so you think I might need a bigger cooler, or an inline 12v water pump to increase the flow rate. I will measure the cooler pipes, but I did not get a reply from the starage chap today, so no idea when I will be able to see my engine. Storage facilities do not like visitors. It's supposed to be emplyees only, which is partly why I'm trying to find a small cheap HIAB or stern mini fork lift truck to move my BMC 2 miles to my fathers garage. 

 

What is all this talk about booster pumps?

 

Pipes between on a keel/tank cooler circuit OR a the coolant part of a heat exchanger circuit need to be large enough to minimise flow resistance so think about car radiator size pipes. If you try to use smaller pipes the ENGINE water pump may well start cavitating and reduce the flow rate.

 

The resistance to flow from the gearbox oil cooler CORE may or may not be satisfactory but from the video it's connection looks like they are for 1/2" or 5/8" hose and that is too small for use on a skin tank or keel cooler circuit. They will be fine for the raw water part of any other cooling system.

 

If you go for a wet exhaust keel/tank cooling system then that oil cooler should be fine because you have a raw water circuit.

 

If you go for a dry exhaust tank/keel cooling system (possibly the easiest) then you may have to get hold of a gearbox oil cooler that allows you to connect larger pipes.

 

I feel I am simply being played for a fool so feel that I may only comment to counter your assertions that do not accord with long e experience - go and annoy the YBW or Norfolk Broads forums.

[TNLI]

TB, you are replying faster than I can finish editing the post, if you wait about 30 minutes I should have finished editing that post, for example I asked about the glow plug figures, but it does not matter as I don't have room on the panel for a heavy duty switch, so I'm now looking for a cheap relay system and illuminated switch. I can make one, but suspect there will be an off the shelf unit available. 

 

Also I can't understand why anyone that does not like a question, feels the need to reply so often. 90% of the replies are from TB, when I really would like to hear from other canal boat owners who have a keel cooled BMC 1500, or marine engineers who have installed such an engine.

Edited October 20, 2021 by TNLI

[Tony Brooks]

The glow plug current will depend upon the age/make of glow plug but a typical 1.5 set usually draws about 25 amps steadily. I have seen newer ones drawing about 50 amps. A 40 amp car relay is often used on modern engines  with similar current draws but an old car type starter solenoid may be a longer lasting solution. Many 1.5s just fed the glow plugs direct from the ignition switch with no relay.

[Tracy D'arth]

I have given up with this post.

 

Tony may well be correct that he is being played for a fool, I will not be any further.

[TNLI]

55 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

The glow plug current will depend upon the age/make of glow plug but a typical 1.5 set usually draws about 25 amps steadily. I have seen newer ones drawing about 50 amps. A 40 amp car relay is often used on modern engines  with similar current draws but an old car type starter solenoid may be a longer lasting solution. Many 1.5s just fed the glow plugs direct from the ignition switch with no relay.

Thanks, alas the 50A push button momentary switches, (I've got one for the horn), are just slighly too big. I suppose I could install it next to the 3 instruments, but that will look odd sitting on its own. 

 

Found this in Goggle:

BMC 1.5 1.8 2.2 DIESEL engine

Electrical specifications (Glow plugs)
Voltage: 12
Voltage/glow plug: 11
Amp: 10
Physical specifications (Glow plugs)
Length 1 mm: 53.3

 

So 40A total for 15 seconds max.

 

The 3 instrument panel just arrived today, but I would not recommend it, as the connections on the rear are of very poor quality and a bit too small. .

Edited October 20, 2021 by TNLI

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, TNLI said:

Thanks, alas the 50A push button momentary switches, (I've got one for the horn), are just slighly too big. I suppose I could install it next to the 3 instruments, but that will look odd sitting on its own. 

 

The 3 instrument panel just arrived today, but I would not recommend it, as the connections on the rear are of very poor quality and a bit too small. .

 

How are you gong to energise the instruments, waning lamps and alternator?  If you choose the correct ignition switch it will do all that plus the heaters and only need one hole.

[TNLI]

29 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

How are you gong to energise the instruments, waning lamps and alternator?  If you choose the correct ignition switch it will do all that plus the heaters and only need one hole.

These will be, (On order), fed from a second panel that has an ignition switch, RPM, (Electronic not OEM mechanical), alarm and warning lights. That panel has a wiring diagram. The 2 earths joined to the second panels negative feed. I will probably feed the instrument panel LED lights and instruments  from the stern navigation light, or local start battery positive near the alternator.

 

I do have 2 start batteries, in addition to 2 house batteries, but have not finished that wiring, as I don't know the size of the connections or even which alternator is fitted. Only the second selector is fitted so far.

 

I'm still waiting for the ignition panel, and I don't know which one of the 2 they make I'm getting, due to a cancelled special offer. If they send the one without the glow plug button, (That is what I think is happening, cos they cancelled the wrong order). I still needed to know about the 40A requirement, so I can check on the rating of the glow plug switch on the panel I've ordered. 50/50 it's too low.

Edited October 20, 2021 by TNLI

[Tony Brooks]

so use an ignition switch that has a sprung loaded heat position and forget about a push switch.

[TNLI]

7 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

so use an ignition switch that has a sprung loaded heat position and forget about a push switch.

So your post was after 6 minutes! 

 

Boat, Narrowboat, Fishingboat Instrument panel 12v New any engine. | eBay

[StephenA]

2 hours ago, TNLI said:

Thanks, alas the 50A push button momentary switches, (I've got one for the horn), are just slighly too big. I suppose I could install it next to the 3 instruments, but that will look odd sitting on its own. 

 

Found this in Goggle:

BMC 1.5 1.8 2.2 DIESEL engine

Electrical specifications (Glow plugs)
Voltage: 12
Voltage/glow plug: 11
Amp: 10
Physical specifications (Glow plugs)
Length 1 mm: 53.3

 

So 40A total for 15 seconds max.

 

The 3 instrument panel just arrived today, but I would not recommend it, as the connections on the rear are of very poor quality and a bit too small. .

 

Ours pull about 25 amps to start with and drops down as they warm up.

1 hour ago, TNLI said:

So your post was after 6 minutes! 

 

Boat, Narrowboat, Fishingboat Instrument panel 12v New any engine. | eBay

 

So?

 

The idea that you have to give someone 30 minutes after they posted before you post a reply is farcical.

[TNLI]

1 hour ago, StephenA said:

 

Ours pull about 25 amps to start with and drops down as they warm up.

 

So?

 

The idea that you have to give someone 30 minutes after they posted before you post a reply is farcical.

It's only a suggestion for TB who replies to any of my posts, in most recent cases he does that before I can finish writing them. Never had that happen in any forum like YBW, Bobs the Oil Guy and several aviation related forums, Pro Pilot in the UK in particular.

 

Is there any chance you can post a clip or a few pictures of the actual digital current clamp figure, or the resistance of your glow plug from a normal digital, or even analogue multi meter ?? 

 

Thiss is similar to the cheap current clamp I use:

MT87 Digital Electric Clamp Meter Multimeter AC DC Current Volt Amp Tester HL | eBay

 

No real idea if it's a good reliable one. Very happy with my  more complex unit that can also measure temperature using the thermocouple probe included. My clamper, cost 29 quid about a year ago, and it's very useful for checking temperature, diode function and capacitance.

 

More expensive clamp meter with Capacitance and temperature of the thermocouple probes:

Digital Clamp Meter Voltage Multimeter Tester 1000A True RMS AC/DC Amp Meter | eBay

 

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by TNLI

[StephenA]

4 minutes ago, TNLI said:

It's only a suggestion for TB who replies to any of my posts, in most recent cases he does that before I can finish writing them. Never had that happen in any forum like YBW, Bobs the Oil Guy and several aviation related forums, Pro Pilot in the UK in particular.

 

You mean finishing editing them after posting them.....

[TNLI]

Stephen, yes I suppose you could say adding sections to a post you posted is editing. Alas I do not have Word on the PC I'm using, so I can only use Works for writing technical stuff, (Aviation related). A lot of the pilots involved in flight test, development or surveillance of the long endurance operations, only use Works for business related posts, as most basic hackers might be able to hack into Yahoo, Gmail and any free e mail account, but not many of them can open a Works attachment after hacking. Most company IT department geeks have the download for Works, but not many other folks do.

[StephenA]

1 minute ago, TNLI said:

Stephen, yes I suppose you could say adding sections to a post you posted is editing. Alas I do not have Word on the PC I'm using, so I can only use Works for writing technical stuff, (Aviation related). A lot of the pilots involved in flight test, development or surveillance of the long endurance operations, only use Works for business related posts, as most basic hackers might be able to hack into Yahoo, Gmail and any free e mail account, but not many of them can open a Works attachment after hacking. Most company IT department geeks have the download for Works, but not many other folks do.

 

Yes it is editing. I write most of my posts directly into here.  Sometimes I might use Geany (the IDE I use for coding) but I'd not use a full standalone WYSINWYG editor to replying to forum posts. if I want to get my thoughts together and I'm on the boat and moving through a poor signal area.

 

Are you seriously saying a software package discontinued 12 years ago is secure? Are you relying on security through obscurity there? Actually no - don't answer that, I really do not want to know the answer.

 

 

[TNLI]

6 minutes ago, StephenA said:

 

Yes it is editing. I write most of my posts directly into here.  Sometimes I might use Geany (the IDE I use for coding) but I'd not use a full standalone WYSINWYG editor to replying to forum posts. if I want to get my thoughts together and I'm on the boat and moving through a poor signal area.

 

Are you seriously saying a software package discontinued 12 years ago is secure? Are you relying on security through obscurity there? Actually no - don't answer that, I really do not want to know the answer.

 

 

Yes because very few hackers have a current download to read it. Works is also very easy to use. I'm not paying for Windows or a PDF writer program, as everyone I send messages to has Works, or can ask their IT person to translate into a Word or PDF document. 

 

 If I really need to write something without editing, I can just use Yahoo mail and send it to myself. That's real quick, but no good for complex documents. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by TNLI

[TNLI]

AHHahhaah! It appears TB might have said something useful rather than a tad rude,, or worse still, expensive. Just found this from ASAP:

 

ZF Marine Gearbox Oil Cooler 3312 307 005 (asap-supplies.com)

 

Now although it might not fit in oil line size, (No choice), it sure works for the coolant pipe size. 

Oil ports are 3/8 inch BSP and end caps are big, real big at 32mm, BSP I presume, BUT will call them to confirm sizes before ordering, just in case of a potential fork up, like a one way valve or German, (It's a ZF part), passport requirement!

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by TNLI

[StephenA]

19 hours ago, TNLI said:

Yes because very few hackers have a current download to read it.

 

 

 

Yeah, right......

 

https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001017.htm

Edited October 21, 2021 by StephenA

[MtB]

On 20/10/2021 at 19:02, Tracy D'arth said:

I have given up with this post.

 

Tony may well be correct that he is being played for a fool, I will not be any further.

 

I agree, and I posted this opinion about two weeks ago.

 

 

[TNLI]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

I agree, and I posted this opinion about two weeks ago.

 

 

The computer Hope program is hopeless unless you are a real Geek, also the typical hacker just moves to an easier target rather than some clown who is using one of the Works programs. I used to use Vista which is still the best operating system in terms of detecting and stopping various types of complex hacking programs sold in the far East. Win 10 is hopeless, for example I was trying to copy a friends You tube clip onto my PC using the recommended procedure which used to take about 5 minutes, net result is that it failed right at the start. 

  Win 10 night be good at stoping viral threats, BUT alas it often results in the need to reboot the entire program and that costs about 50 quid for a Geek to visit who has the software to reload it. Luckily it did not trash my files last time I got hit.

 

  New tack: I never agree or give up, but alas even ASAP don't know the ID of the oil fpipes to my beloved TMP 100 hydraulic gearbox, as they pointed out in their last mail:

Shaun (ASAP Supplies)

21 Oct 2021, 09:34 BST

Good morning.

Unfortunately, we would have no idea of the sizes for the TMP I'm afraid, so I would be unsure as to the requirements.

Other than confirming what size connection and lines you currently have (solid copper or hose), I wouldn't be able to point you in the right direction.

Kind regards.

Shaun Wade
sales@asap-supplies.com
01502 716993
ASAP Supplies

 

Also as regards the need for a 40A glow plug switch, I've decided to use a cheap relay, and ordered 2 80A ones:

2 Pieces Car Truck Auto DC 12V 80A 80 AMP SPDT Relay Relays 5 Pin | eBay

 

Still looking for 2 waterproof switches, (The engine panels are inside the cabin, BUT you never know when a freak wave or salt drip might arrive as you transit a hatch or door in heavy weather, so I always try and find waterproof or resistant switches. One to trigger the glow plug relay and other for a simple extractor fan for the engine bay. Keeping the various hoses and belts cool, improves their life expectancy.

 

Final question I can't find an answer to is, can some expert of early BMC's let me know if they have a manual stop cable or a 12v valve shut off ??

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by TNLI

[Tony Brooks]

1. Re-read the BMC 1500  topic you resurrected months ago re the gearbox maker.

 

2. Post the requested photos so you can be given a definitive answer re the stop control but most use a cable.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[David Mack]

8 hours ago, TNLI said:

Final question I can't find an answer to is, can some expert of early BMC's let me know if they have a manual stop cable or a 12v valve shut off ??

A BMC I once had was fitted with a solenoid to keep the stop control open, so it was drawing current all the time the engine was running. Soon got disconnected and replaced with a cable. Less to go wrong, and if the cable fails you can always stop it on the engine.

 

Just remember to push the knob back in before you try to start the engine again.

Edited October 22, 2021 by David Mack