Known canal bottlenecks where, when, why

[J R ALSOP]

Armitage Tunnel it was, Armitage Tunnel it will always be, The Plum Pudding is a pub.

[RLWP]

8 minutes ago, reg said:

Near the petrol station? That's my spot

No, sometimes it smells of petrol and it's a bit shady. I know there are rings

Somewhere below Middle Lock Lane

Richard

[matty40s]

The BCN, especially Farmers Bridge, Factory and the Crow on the weekend of May Bank Holiday.

[MtB]

I seem to remember waiting most of a hot summer's afternoon once to go through Maureen's Lock on the Middlewich branch.

[reg]

30 minutes ago, john6767 said:

Yep we have also done it that sort of time by mooring overnight partway up/down.  In reality Hatton is always quiet and if you are doing it is one go it very predictable in terms of the time taken.

I think you are probably correct in that I generally  have a good idea on arrival  how long Hatton should take, even if it is busy traffic tends to flow OK. So could possible take this of my list. 

[alan_fincher]

16 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I seem to remember waiting most of a hot summer's afternoon once to go through Maureen's Lock on the Middlewich branch.

Yes all the locks on the Middlewich branch can in our experience involve long waits.

That one is bad because...

1) People will not use the space below the lock to queue to go uphill, which mans often the downhill boat faffs to get out under the bridge and make their turn, then the uphill boat takes forever, and has about 6 attempts to get through the bridge.
2) People seem very cautious about filling that lock quickly with a baot in.

We have also waited over 3 hours for Minshull lock on that branch.

The locks though Middlewich itself can have long delays.

Edited January 23, 2018 by alan_fincher
To get correct lock name.

[reg]

13 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I seem to remember waiting most of a hot summer's afternoon once to go through Maureen's Lock on the Middlewich branch.

Good one the Middlewich branch does tend to back up in season, probably due to it being a connection between so many major routes. Certainly not unexpected in season to see 8 or more boats backed up near Venetian marina

Edited January 23, 2018 by reg

[RLWP]

23 minutes ago, matty40s said:

The BCN, especially Farmers Bridge, Factory and the Crow on the weekend of May Bank Holiday.

Not due to us though, was it Matty?

[alan_fincher]

2 hours ago, reg said:

In order to assist on predicting canal journey times I thought it may be useful to identify any known canal bottlenecks. These can basically be described as canal features where on approaching them it is difficult to know  in advance how long it might take to transit them. Off the top of my head I can think of the following 

Hatton flight

Foxton staircase 

Watford staircase

Grindley brook flight

Hureleston flight. 

Napton flight

Watford can take longer than it needs to because of "rules" imposed by the volunteer lock keepers.

For example we were not allowed up through the bottom locks to wait for the staircase, despite no other boats waiting in the pond below, so had to wait whilst boats came right down through bottom locks before being allowed in.  Total unnecessary delay time is then about 4 lock operations.

3 minutes ago, reg said:

Good one the Middlewich branch does tend to back up in season, probably due to it being a connection between so many major routes. Certainly not unexpected in season to see 8 more boats backed up near Venetian marina

I meant Minshull in my original post.

We have been involved there in queues that ran into double figures, certainly.

[reg]

1 minute ago, alan_fincher said:

Watford can take longer than it needs to because of "rules" imposed by the volunteer lock keepers.

For example we were not allowed up through the bottom locks to wait for the staircase, despite no other boats waiting in the pond below, so had to wait whilst boats came right down through bottom locks before being allowed in.  Total unnecessary delay time is then about 4 lock operations.

Same experience here, does depend on which volunteers are on they all seem to have their own preferred method of operation. Some more than happy to let you up the first 2 locks ready for the staircase other's want the flight cleared before allowing you up. Just learnt to ride with what ever was being employed on the day. 

[alan_fincher]

1 hour ago, Tim Lewis said:

The only others that spring to mind are Glascote at Braunston, both of which I have been in 8/9 lockfull queues, Fradley can be a nightmare at times.

Presume you mean Glascote and Braunston?

Braunston can sometimes be made worse by the actions of volunteer lock keepers - it works better if people are left alone to get on with it.

(Also true of Hillmorton!!!).

Glascote is at its worst if top paddle is out - something that seems to happen quite often.

2 minutes ago, reg said:

Same experience here, does depend on which volunteers are on they all seem to have their own preferred method of operation. Some more than happy to let you up the first 2 locks ready for the staircase other's want the flight cleared before allowing you up. Just learnt to ride with what ever was being employed on the day. 

A similar issue at Foxton, I believe is the extent to which boats are allowed to pass in the short middle pound between the two staircases.  I've not experienced these issues, but have seen reports from those who have.

Edited January 23, 2018 by alan_fincher

[matty40s]

29 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Not due to us though, was it Matty?

A regular flushing of bottlenecks helps tremendously.

[Keeping Up]

23 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Watford can take longer than it needs to because of "rules" imposed by the volunteer lock keepers.

For example we were not allowed up through the bottom locks to wait for the staircase, despite no other boats waiting in the pond below, so had to wait whilst boats came right down through bottom locks before being allowed in.  Total unnecessary delay time is then about 4 lock operations.

I meant Minshull in my original post.

We have been involved there in queues that ran into double figures, certainly.

What annoys me most at Watford is when the vollies insist on following the principle of One Up and One Down, as instructed by the notice that says you should do this "to maximise the use of water". Yes it does maximise it, which is the last thing you actually need, as well as maximising the time taken. I nearly ended up having a fight with a vollie who insisted that we stop and wait below the flight for the one boat that had just arrived at the top to come down even though there were 5 boats behind us.

[john6767]

26 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Watford can take longer than it needs to because of "rules" imposed by the volunteer lock keepers.

About 3 years ago we can down Watford at the end of the day, and were lucky to be allowed to tag onto the group that was going to be the last locking down of the day.  When we got to the bottom there was I think 15 boats waiting below, and the keeper had said they were only going to let the first 5 up before they chained the flight up for the night.  At least now with Watford you can operate it yourself when the keepers knock off for the day.

[Keeping Up]

1 hour ago, J R ALSOP said:

Armitage Tunnel it was, Armitage Tunnel it will always be, The Plum Pudding is a pub.

Absolutely. But is the pub called the Plum Pudding for that reason? Rather like the Blue Lias which is so named because of the type of clay there.

[Midnight]

Bingley 3 rise and 5 rise if you're unlucky

[Horace42]

The Bratch staircase - S&W

Llangollen - single lanes - including aqueduct.

[Timx]

It doesn't matter.

[Mal in Somerset]

I've never had any problems at Watford. The reason for holding boats at the bottom in the last year or so is because they have had problems with severe leaking through the bottom lock. They prefer to keep the bottom lock empty for as long as possible, so hold the boats below the bottom lock, then as the boats coming down clear the staircase start to bring the boats up through the first 2 locks bearing in mind that there is only room for one boat to moor in each pound below the staircase. The bottom lock is due to be repaired in March as part of the winter stoppage programme and I understand they are hoping to tidy up the other locks whilst they are at it. 

[Peter X]

On the few occasions I've done the Armitage tunnel (or gap between rocks or whatever term should be used) I've yet to see a queue of more than one boat, which surprises me a bit because there must be the potential for a giant snarl-up if the wrong boats enter it at about the same time in an unfortunate pattern. In September I walked ahead then helped a crew hold their hire boat into the passing place while our loaded pair went by. Not your everyday traffic, and people have managed in the past, but in general I feel it would help nowadays if a notice at either end suggested that any boat that can do it send a crew member ahead with a mobile phone. If there's a decent signal?!

Bottlenecks are a combination of busy/difficult places, and busy times. It's rare to be held up anywhere in the off season unless there's a stoppage, but on the popular days in summer many locks and other places will have queues.

[reg]

16 minutes ago, Timx said:

It doesn't matter.

Although I posted the original post I am not entirely unsympathetic to your view, my general response to the question "how long will it take you?" is that on the canals things take as long as they take. 

However the objective of the thread is to identify info that could potentially be used in more accurately calculating route timings for those where it does matter. Gave you greenie for sympathising with  your comment and then removed a greenie on behalf of those for  who it does matter,status quo achieved. 

[RLWP]

28 minutes ago, Timx said:

It doesn't matter.

Is the correct answer

The danger here is creating yet another list of no-go areas.

Richard

[reg]

4 minutes ago, Peter X said:

On the few occasions I've done the Armitage tunnel (or gap between rocks or whatever term should be used) I've yet to see a queue of more than one boat, which surprises me a bit because there must be the potential for a giant snarl-up if the wrong boats enter it at about the same time in an unfortunate pattern. In September I walked ahead then helped a crew hold their hire boat into the passing place while our loaded pair went by. Not your everyday traffic, and people have managed in the past, but in general I feel it would help nowadays if a notice at either end suggested that any boat that can do it send a crew member ahead with a mobile phone. If there's a decent signal?!

Bottlenecks are a combination of busy/difficult places, and busy times. It's rare to be held up anywhere in the off season unless there's a stoppage, but on the popular days in summer many locks and other places will have queues.

The problem I found with the Armitage tunnel is that as a single hander I can't sent crew ahead to check it out. Sometimes it's a case of diving in (not literally) and half expect to have to back out. Overall though I suppose it's not a major hold up if everyone plays fairly. 

[reg]

5 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Is the correct answer

The danger here is creating yet another list of no-go areas.

Richard

I don't think there is much  danger of that, but accept that other views are available. 

[Mal in Somerset]

I always seem to have an issue at Coven. If you are heading south you can't really see anything coming the other way until you are well into the narrow stretch. Yes, there are a few passing places but it always seems to be a bit of a squeeze!