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Tidal Thames cruise in July


Grassman

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6 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I am far from convinced that is a good idea unless you are going to cover the well  deck to minimise water ingress. If by chance you did take a big wave into the well deck the perhaps the rags would blow out or perhaps they would hinder draining. If you have a cratch water in the well deck would be less likely. I intend to leave those drains free so they will drain but an seriously considering fitting a  washboard across the lower half of the font door aperture so people can still get into the well deck for sight seeing but water will find it harder to get into the boat.

I would add:- plug any fresh water tank breather or clamp the breather hose inside the boat.

 

PS, I think I read of someone who put a large bilge pump in their well deck but I doubt that would drain as fast as your drain holes.

If you have a washboard across the bottom half of the doors, or if the doors are kept shut I would gaffer tape the gap securely so any water you do ship goes out through the drains and not into the cabin. This effectively raises the freeboard at the bow.

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6 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

We may well pass you somewhere on the non tidal Thames.

Looks like you will be heading up river as we will be on our way down.

I thought you might be. I've been reading with interest your thread on it. 

I'll look out for you, but make sure you don't wizz past too fast in your large cabin cruiser creating a large wash across my bows :).

Mind you, yours will be the least of my problems!

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On 14/01/2018 at 08:55, alan_fincher said:

I also congratulate you on your research and preparation.

I do somewhat fear that ultimately some disaster by someone who is ill prepared or has an unsuitable boat will lead to a situation where narrow boat owners are no longer permitted out of Limehouse.

I can't help with your request unfortunately, but it does raise again questions I have always had in my mind.

Both times we have done it, (not for some years) circumstances have dictated we were the only narrow boat through that cycle of the lock.  It always felt like being with another boat would offer some reassurance.  However I do seriously wonder the extent to which another narrow boat could help in the case of mechanical difficulties.  About half your total speed over land is the tide, or at least it was in our case, and I assumed if you had tried to turn and go back the other way, you would be struggling to make much headway at all.  I'm not convinced you could easily get to another stricken boat and take it in tow.

Does anybody know of cases where one narrow boat has successfully rescued another, and how difficult was it?

I can certainly see another VHF boat might be better placed to summon help, if those on board a boat in difficulties were not easily able to do so, but beyond that I wonder how much extra security is offered by multiple narrow boats travelling together.

Put out a call on VHF Channel 14 - London VTS - and you'll be surprised how quickly the emergency services arrive - I saw them come once for a man who jumped off Westminster Bridge - very impressive - have an anchor, at least 10m of 10mm chain and around 40' of (at least 14mm) line - make sure it is ready to go over the side and that it is firmly connected to the Tee stud.  We found the 10mm chain was best kept in two cheap plastic buckets because we thought (as we never had to use them) the chain would go over the side more easily and you wouldn't get a foot caught in it as the anchor dragged the chain out.

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7 hours ago, Bricksh said:

A little off topic, but I have just noticed that BWML have now submitted the planning application for new leisure moorings in Limehouse along the wall (currently the free 24hr CRT moorings where many boats currently moor up before entering the tideway).  I personally think this is a bad idea, as I have often waited on the wall for the weather/tide to be right and the available 24hr free £25/night thereafter moorings, will be significantly impacted. I will be objecting, but, suspect its a done deal already.

Here is the link with the details.

I think (I am just about to try it) that you need to register in order to submit a comment/objection.

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8 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Here is the link with the details.

I think (I am just about to try it) that you need to register in order to submit a comment/objection.

This document is making me so cross.

One point for each piece of misleading, incorrect, or irrelevant information. It completely fails to address the key point, which is whether the new arrangements will increase or reduce risk compared to the status quo.

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28 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

This document is making me so cross.

38 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

Interestingly (or not) neither of those documents appear to be available to me. 

Edit- they’re working now. How odd. 

Edited by WotEver
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35 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

This document is making me so cross.

One point for each piece of misleading, incorrect, or irrelevant information. It completely fails to address the key point, which is whether the new arrangements will increase or reduce risk compared to the status quo.

Document Unavailable

This document is unavailable for viewing at this time.
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5 hours ago, Grassman said:

I thought you might be. I've been reading with interest your thread on it. 

I'll look out for you, but make sure you don't wizz past too fast in your large cabin cruiser creating a large wash across my bows :).

Mind you, yours will be the least of my problems!

NC is only little. I don't think her wash will bother you ;)

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We may be doing the trip about the same time as you, though early planning was for a bit later. While the boat has done the Thames Barrier and the main stretch before, we've not and we were looking for company too. If only for the opportunity to swap 'in action' photos!  We will have done Sharpness to Bristol earlier in the summer so we will either be super-confident or petrified by July!  

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10 hours ago, Odana said:

We may be doing the trip about the same time as you, though early planning was for a bit later. While the boat has done the Thames Barrier and the main stretch before, we've not and we were looking for company too. If only for the opportunity to swap 'in action' photos!  We will have done Sharpness to Bristol earlier in the summer so we will either be super-confident or petrified by July!  

Let me know if you decide to as I think it would be mutually beneficial.

Sharpness to Bristol is another on our bucket list so I'd be interested to hear how you get on. However, if you are doing that run wouldn't you from Bristol be going east on the K&A and then downstream on the Thames to London? Whereas we are going upstream from Limehouse.

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59 minutes ago, Grassman said:

Let me know if you decide to as I think it would be mutually beneficial.

Sharpness to Bristol is another on our bucket list so I'd be interested to hear how you get on. However, if you are doing that run wouldn't you from Bristol be going east on the K&A and then downstream on the Thames to London? Whereas we are going upstream from Limehouse.

We will be coming East, then through the canal bits of London via Brentford, but upstream on the return to Brentford as that is the easiest way to do the Thames through central London I hear. Our timings may be flexible as we want to spend a few weeks down the Wey and Basingstoke and up the Lea. Only constraint is we need to be back up in Brum via Grand Union by about 7 Aug - hence thinking about doing Thames upstream about mid-July Will set to planning soon and if we can align dates it would be great. 

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48 minutes ago, Odana said:

We will be coming East, then through the canal bits of London via Brentford, but upstream on the return to Brentford as that is the easiest way to do the Thames through central London I hear. Our timings may be flexible as we want to spend a few weeks down the Wey and Basingstoke and up the Lea. Only constraint is we need to be back up in Brum via Grand Union by about 7 Aug - hence thinking about doing Thames upstream about mid-July Will set to planning soon and if we can align dates it would be great. 

I would certainly concur that entering Brentford is a whole lot easier than Limehouse.

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2 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

I would certainly concur that entering Brentford is a whole lot easier than Limehouse.

Here are a  few photos, courtesy of NB Indigo Dream. We are just behind BEATTY.

https://www.facebook.com/sue.cook.507/media_set?set=a.4144212250543.2176562.1440854080&type=3&l=d0e93635c8

Edited by Scholar Gypsy
Stupidity
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I  have also managed to find this photo, taken near the Thames Barrier. It shows why shutting the side doors is a good idea.

 

This is more of a problem with heavy and/or full length boats, which pitch much less and just plough along nice and level. Shorter boats will pitch more which is more exciting but safer.

5a5f514052501_IMG_1264(1024x683)4.jpg.56942c3ef6663e7d80ce0c3e94e542a9.jpg

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Reminds me of my first trip up the Thames from Limehouse. We were lucky having Simon aboard. I learnt an awful lot, enough to give me the confidence to do it on my own the second time. I was also lucky my boat performed very well in the swell with just a couple of spots of water on the cratch glass.

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On 1/13/2018 at 09:59, Grassman said:

 

My wife and I are planning to go onto the Thames in our narrowboat in July, leaving Limehouse and travelling upriver. Having cruised the Trent down to Keadby and the Yorkshire Ouse as well, I do have some experience of tidal rivers however I appreciate that the Thames through London is a different beast.

I have my VHF and have done the research (excellent information and links from this forum) but I'd be more comfortable travelling the tidal section with another boater and not necessarily anybody who has done it before, because even just having the companionship with a fellow 'Thames novice' with their narrowboat  close at hand would add to the enjoyment.

I feel that having somebody else travelling with us would give me more confidence and peace of mind that if anything went wrong, or we were unsure of anything we could perhaps help each other out. Also we could take photos of each others boat as we go which would give a different perspective to our respective photo collections.

I'm thinking of July, either the 7th or 8th when the tides are suitable for leaving Limehouse fairly early (5- 6am ish) before the river gets busy with trip boats.

So if any of you would be interested in accompanying us with your boat around that time please let me know. I've enquired with St Pancras Cruising Club, but they don't appear to have any of their cruising events around this time and unfortunately my timings aren't very flexible. A while ago I also contacted the local IWA branch to see if any of their members are interested but have had no response so far.

We did get your request at the IWA and I apologise for not responding sooner. 

Most of our local members do not keep their boats in London so rarely do the tideway. Those that I do know who keep their boats locally and use the tideway are mostly associated with St Pancras Cruising Club and tend to go out on their organised trips.

You could speak to the Limehouse lock keepers about other bookings but I would be surprised if many book that far in advance if at all.

I wouldn't get too hung up on missing the trip boats/clippers, they generally slow down for you and have to reduce speed anyway once upstream of Tower Bridge. Turning into the wash negates most of the problems. Once above Westminster Bridge you will meet very little other traffic.

Tim

Edited by Tim Lewis
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1 hour ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

And what there is will probably be smaller than you are.  Here is a Regatta at Chiswick Bridge.
 

 

But they are harder to avoid than the trip and rubbish boats! Even worse are coxless ones . . . 

3 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Here are a  few photos, courtesy of NB Indigo Dream. We are just behind BEATTY.

https://www.facebook.com/sue.cook.507/media_set?set=a.4144212250543.2176562.1440854080&type=3&l=d0e93635c8

Looks like you were coming in upstream. The problem we found is coming down from Brentford on an ebbing tide - the flow 'bounces' off the downstream entrance wall and pushes the boat sharply to the left ie the upstream wall - not what you would expect.

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3 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

But they are harder to avoid than the trip and rubbish boats! Even worse are coxless ones . . . 

Looks like you were coming in upstream. The problem we found is coming down from Brentford on an ebbing tide - the flow 'bounces' off the downstream entrance wall and pushes the boat sharply to the left ie the upstream wall - not what you would expect.

On the rowers - agreed. That's why I always have a hooter to hand.

On Limehouse, we'd come down (about 25 boats) from Brentford, and had been stemming the ebbing tide just downstream of Limehouse. I didn't notice the famous eddy at all, I must admit .... we just got all of us in before running out of water over the cill.

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Thanks to you all for your latest information which has all been noted and added to my 'preparation list'.

I was interested seeing Scholar Gypsy's photos of entering Limehouse. I appreciate the Thames has it's own issues with the amount of traffic and the currents/flow of the river, but entering it looks far easier than others I've done, such as entering West Stockwith and Keadby Locks from the Trent, and into Selby from the Ouse. I managed the first two very well but I did slightly c*ck up Selby by allowing too much for the sandbanks which resulted in a slight scraping of the bows on the lock entrance wall :mellow:.

Am I right, or is the Thames just as difficult but in a different way?

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28 minutes ago, Grassman said:

Thanks to you all for your latest information which has all been noted and added to my 'preparation list'.

I was interested seeing Scholar Gypsy's photos of entering Limehouse. I appreciate the Thames has it's own issues with the amount of traffic and the currents/flow of the river, but entering it looks far easier than others I've done, such as entering West Stockwith and Keadby Locks from the Trent, and into Selby from the Ouse. I managed the first two very well but I did slightly c*ck up Selby by allowing too much for the sandbanks which resulted in a slight scraping of the bows on the lock entrance wall :mellow:.

Am I right, or is the Thames just as difficult but in a different way?

I've done West Stockwith, and would agree it's rather trickier (I have a  video ...). The current lock at Limehouse is well set back from the main river - for the section under the road bridge you are inside the old ship lock. For the others you mention the lock gates are very close to the river.

 

I think the main difference on the Thames, compared to other rivers, is the large number of other boats around, all doing slightly random things. That can occupy a lot of the skipper's attention - which incidentally is why I think it's a good idea to have a skipper and a helmsman. The latter can concentrate on steering the boat, and the former can watch out for everyone else and take appropriate action ....

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40 minutes ago, Grassman said:

 

I was interested seeing Scholar Gypsy's photos of entering Limehouse. I appreciate the Thames has it's own issues with the amount of traffic and the currents/flow of the river, but entering it looks far easier than others I've done, 

Am I right, or is the Thames just as difficult but in a different way?

Those pictures show the 'down and back up again' technique. I have seen quite a few people get that one badly wrong, the get swept onto the corner as they try to push into the lock mouth. At that point you are very vulnerable, especially if your boat is underpowered. If your boat is capable of 5mph but the tide is flowing down at 4 ½ mph you have very little control power left.

I always use the 'torpedo' approach at Limehouse. About 500m upstream I begin to turn left and cross the fairway. I hold the boat broadside as I cross (ie sideways in the river) all the while simultaneously crossing the wide river and being swept downstream. By manipulating my speed using engine revs I time it so that the boat ploughs into the lock mouth just as I sweep past. When the front half of the boat lands in the slack water you need a blast of power onto a right rudder to compensate for the back of the boat still being in the flow. But after a little lurch you are safely in. It may sound a bit dramatic but is actually very simple and instinctive. 

 

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