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Tidal Thames cruise in July


Grassman

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The PLA's advice is to drop the anchor. They say there have been a number of incidents where the outcome was worse than necessary because the skipper had delayed taking that decision. 

Three other points to add:

1. if you are within say 300' of a bridge then the anchor is unlikely to stop you before you get to the bridge.  Hence the importance of getting into the right alignment well before that point so you have at least some chance of going through the arch rather than hitting something

2. If you were in open water then you may have time to get a line across to another boat.  In general towing  line astern is better. I would use a proper heaving line and use that to transfer the towrope. If you breast up use proper fenders unless you want ropes to snap, as the two boats will not roll in sync.

3. If you are too close to the Thames barrier you can't anchor anyway. That was the case in the incident described above. ("Narrow Boat anchor fouls Thames barrier,  causing £3 billion flood damage and X fatalities on the Bakerloo line" would not be a  good headline).

In general breaking waves are unusual,  thogh you may get a bit of spray...

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20 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

if you are within say 300' of a bridge then the anchor is unlikely to stop you before you get to the bridge.

That is quite believable for the anchors that most NB carry, however (back on my soap-box) if the suitable design and size of anchor is deployed it will stop you within a fraction of that distance.

 

Maybe there is a business opportunity for someone - rent out anchors, lifejackets & VHFs by the day / week for River use.

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15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That is quite believable for the anchors that most NB carry, however (back on my soap-box) if the suitable design and size of anchor is deployed it will stop you within a fraction of that distance.

 

Maybe there is a business opportunity for someone - rent out anchors, lifejackets & VHFs by the day / week for River use.

My estimate was as follows, and includes nothing for dragging/biting distance:

  • 150 feet for anchor and chain (PLA recommendation 15m chain + 35m line)
  • 50 feet for length of boat (ie assuming anchor is attached to bow
  • 100 feet for reaction time, especially if you don't have crew at the bows all the time.
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13 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

My estimate was as follows, and includes nothing for dragging/biting distance:

  • 150 feet for anchor and chain (PLA recommendation 15m chain + 35m line) I would not use any 'line' I would be 100% chain
  • 50 feet for length of boat (ie assuming anchor is attached to bow .Good point if the 'bridge is downsteam' of you
  • 100 feet for reaction time, especially if you don't have crew at the bows all the time. Fair point - 2mph is 3 feet per second, so 30 seconds.

Yes I can see that if you are within (say) 250 feet then it would be a close thing.

I was working on the distance from 'deployment to stopping', but you are correct that reaction time and an element of chain length should be taken into account

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Thanks again folks for all your useful input following my OP. 

My insurance company doesn't stipulate we have to be accompanied by another boat but as I said before, it would add to the experience if anyone is up for it.  I suppose that with going so early there won't be as many other boats about in case I need help, but I still prefer it to be this time before the trip boats get going.

As well as my other preparations I have been liaising with Colin at Limehouse Lock who has been very helpful.

I've made a list of the preparations I am making for this trip. Most are what I've done in the past for our trips on the other tidal and non-tidal rivers such as the Trent, Yorkshire Ouse, and the Severn, and it has served us well. The plugging of the drain holes is the only new addition and I'd appreciate advice regarding my questions (in blue font) please.

If I've missed anything please feel free to advise. 

Here is the list

Preparation leading up to departure.

  • Full engine service including filter changes, checking of cables, wires, belts etc. Also check horn and navigation lights are working.
  • Have fuel polished.
  • Ensure I have spare fan belts, throttle cable, filters, & tools handy.
  • Check anchor and warp condition and correct configuration and have ready to deploy at the time of departure.
  • Check bow and stern ropes - correct length and in good/serviceable condition.
  • Revise upon the horn warning signals. I can never remember them !!
  • Life jackets service up to date.

Preparation just before departure.

  • Plug bathroom and galley drain holes - will corks do the job?
  • Plug square 2 inch cratch floor drain holes - would some rag stuffed into them suffice?
  • The engine vents are at gunwale level so should be okay. The exhaust is 10 inches above the waterline when 2 people are stood on the cruiser stern and freshwater bow tank is full (1200 litre capacity). Will that be high enough out of the water?
  • Remove any loose items from roof , secure gangplank and pole & ensure solar panels are tightened down.
  • Throwline and rescue ladder, anchor ready to deploy.
  • Ensure full or fairly full fuel tank.
  • Check propeller isn't fowled, weed hatch is fully secured, stern gland tight, & bilge pump working.
  • Zip up/fasten down cratch cover.
  • VHF & mobile phone charged and working.
  • Print off various guides, information sources for easy reference when on the move.
  • Re-read navigation advice and familiarise with landmarks and potential hazards etc.
  • Have binoculars (and camera) readily accessible.
  • Put on life jackets.
  • Make a flask of tea/coffee.
  • Visit the loo.
  • Brief crew on departure.
  • Relax and get ready to enjoy the experience :)
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2 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

1. if you are within say 300' of a bridge then the anchor is unlikely to stop you before you get to the bridge.  Hence the importance of getting into the right alignment well before that point so you have at least some chance of going through the arch rather than hitting something

At one time I would have disagreed with that. But a few years ago on a SPCC cruise up the tidal Thames we were well back in the convoy and we got a radio message that the front boats were heading for a bridge arch that was closed due to a suspended scaffolding (which in reality was more than high enough for narrow boats). So we made a tight turn to head for the adjacent open arch. I was surprised that although we started the turn well back, we only just made it through the correct span. We could easily have been swept into the bridge pier. With hindsight it would have been safer to carry on through the closed arch (as the boats in front of us did). 

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1 hour ago, Grassman said:

 

If I've missed anything please feel free to advise. 

 

  • Revise upon the horn warning signals. I can never remember them !!

Print them off, laminate them (local library can do it if you don't have a machine) then tape next to the helm position.

 

Sounds Signals.jpg

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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That looks a very comprehensive list. Only things I would add are:

1)  Check the PLA's notices to mariners, in particular for any arch closures and/or local traffic control. You really really don't want to go through a bridge arch with a flashing white light, unless you fancy being clobbered by one of the rubbish barges coming inbound behind you (photo below). They stop at one of four locations (Nine Elms, Battersea Power Station (Cringles Dock), before Battersea Rail, and after Wandsworth. Listen out on VHF to learn which, and plan your arrival at the bridges that have only one inbound arch accordingly. Good news is all those moorings are on the south bank so they don't turn across your bows.

2) Design and communicate a clear process for dropping the anchor - I reckon the most dangerous procedure that you could need, given the risk of getting chain around someone's foot etc. On my boat I would clear the foredeck before dropping the hook.

3) Make a list of roles for the crew, and be clear who does what at any one time. My list is something like this:

  • skipper (in charge of everyone else, ideally doesn't actually do anything)
  • helmsman
  • navigator
  • radio operator
  • rear lookout (very important)
  • deckhand and anchor dropper
  • mechanic
     
  • surgeon/first aider (includes suncream operative)
  • cook/chef/galley slave
  • photographer / blogger / twittermaster
  • finance director etc etc.

Enjoy !!


dscf9969.jpg

Edited by Scholar Gypsy
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14 hours ago, Grassman said:

Thanks again folks for all your useful input following my OP. 

My insurance company doesn't stipulate we have to be accompanied by another boat but as I said before, it would add to the experience if anyone is up for it.  I suppose that with going so early there won't be as many other boats about in case I need help, but I still prefer it to be this time before the trip boats get going.

As well as my other preparations I have been liaising with Colin at Limehouse Lock who has been very helpful.

I've made a list of the preparations I am making for this trip. Most are what I've done in the past for our trips on the other tidal and non-tidal rivers such as the Trent, Yorkshire Ouse, and the Severn, and it has served us well. The plugging of the drain holes is the only new addition and I'd appreciate advice regarding my questions (in blue font) please.

If I've missed anything please feel free to advise. 

Here is the list

Preparation leading up to departure.

  • Full engine service including filter changes, checking of cables, wires, belts etc. Also check horn and navigation lights are working.
  • Have fuel polished.
  • Ensure I have spare fan belts, throttle cable, filters, & tools handy.
  • Check anchor and warp condition and correct configuration and have ready to deploy at the time of departure.
  • Check bow and stern ropes - correct length and in good/serviceable condition.
  • Revise upon the horn warning signals. I can never remember them !!
  • Life jackets service up to date.

Preparation just before departure.

  • Plug bathroom and galley drain holes - will corks do the job?
  • Plug square 2 inch cratch floor drain holes - would some rag stuffed into them suffice?
  • The engine vents are at gunwale level so should be okay. The exhaust is 10 inches above the waterline when 2 people are stood on the cruiser stern and freshwater bow tank is full (1200 litre capacity). Will that be high enough out of the water?
  • Remove any loose items from roof , secure gangplank and pole & ensure solar panels are tightened down.
  • Throwline and rescue ladder, anchor ready to deploy.
  • Ensure full or fairly full fuel tank.
  • Check propeller isn't fowled, weed hatch is fully secured, stern gland tight, & bilge pump working.
  • Zip up/fasten down cratch cover.
  • VHF & mobile phone charged and working.
  • Print off various guides, information sources for easy reference when on the move.
  • Re-read navigation advice and familiarise with landmarks and potential hazards etc.
  • Have binoculars (and camera) readily accessible.
  • Put on life jackets.
  • Make a flask of tea/coffee.
  • Visit the loo.
  • Brief crew on departure.
  • Relax and get ready to enjoy the experience :)

I am far from convinced that is a good idea unless you are going to cover the well  deck to minimise water ingress. If by chance you did take a big wave into the well deck the perhaps the rags would blow out or perhaps they would hinder draining. If you have a cratch water in the well deck would be less likely. I intend to leave those drains free so they will drain but an seriously considering fitting a  washboard across the lower half of the font door aperture so people can still get into the well deck for sight seeing but water will find it harder to get into the boat.

I would add:- plug any fresh water tank breather or clamp the breather hose inside the boat.

 

PS, I think I read of someone who put a large bilge pump in their well deck but I doubt that would drain as fast as your drain holes.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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10 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

If by chance you did take a big wave into the well deck the perhaps the rags would blow out or perhaps they would hinder draining.

It is always possible to fit 'flappers' (valves) - maybe OTT for a single trip on the River - they let the water out but close off and will not let the water in.

 

Seadog-Scupper-Valve-1-7-8-034-ID-Hole-520500-1

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It is worth joining the Tidal Thames Navigators Club. They will send out free tide tables and a plasticised chart that has lots of useful info on it. I have found the PLA's bridge book to be a handy reference as it shows each bridge, spans to use and tidal influence likely for springs and neaps. (an abridged version is in the BW upstream and downstream tideway publications which are free pdf downloads).

One thing not mentioned so far is weather. ie How windy is it, what direction, will it be raining etc

Do you have someone who can fit the spare parts you're carrying and if the fuel filter needs changing, reprime the fuel system.

Before going into the lock, I always have a walk down to the river for a quick eyeball to make sure I'm happy, conditions are OK.

Also always check below the lock at the amount of detritus and its type (logs, bin bags, carpets etc) thats has gathered in the lock entry. With limehouse being on the bend and the angle of the entrance its a natural gathering point. I have asked the lockie to flush the lock on more than one occasion, to mitigate prop fouling.

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On 1/13/2018 at 09:59, Grassman said:

 

My wife and I are planning to go onto the Thames in our narrowboat in July, leaving Limehouse and travelling upriver. Having cruised the Trent down to Keadby and the Yorkshire Ouse as well, I do have some experience of tidal rivers however I appreciate that the Thames through London is a different beast.

I have my VHF and have done the research (excellent information and links from this forum) but I'd be more comfortable travelling the tidal section with another boater and not necessarily anybody who has done it before, because even just having the companionship with a fellow 'Thames novice' with their narrowboat  close at hand would add to the enjoyment.

I feel that having somebody else travelling with us would give me more confidence and peace of mind that if anything went wrong, or we were unsure of anything we could perhaps help each other out. Also we could take photos of each others boat as we go which would give a different perspective to our respective photo collections.

I'm thinking of July, either the 7th or 8th when the tides are suitable for leaving Limehouse fairly early (5- 6am ish) before the river gets busy with trip boats.

So if any of you would be interested in accompanying us with your boat around that time please let me know. I've enquired with St Pancras Cruising Club, but they don't appear to have any of their cruising events around this time and unfortunately my timings aren't very flexible. A while ago I also contacted the local IWA branch to see if any of their members are interested but have had no response so far.

We may well pass you somewhere on the non tidal Thames.

Looks like you will be heading up river as we will be on our way down.

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I've done Limehouse - Brentford in n/boat a few times also a few trips in Dutch tug  and the best advice for a narrow boat on the tideway (apart from obvious stuff) is probably to try and leave before the trip boats start crashing about all over the place. If you can do that then the water is smooth and its really interesting. (Same goes for the Seine in Paris as well, b****** trip boats!)

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I regularly do Limehouse to Brentford in my narrowboat. The two main things that I attend to before going out:

1: Full diesel tank, 100% full. With a full tank the fuel will slosh around much less therefore there is less chance of picking up dirt from the bottom of the tank.

2: Full water tank. My water tank is in the bow. When I first started doing the tideway I used to go with an empty water tank thinking that it would be good to have less weight and more buoyancy in the bow. Over the years I have reversed that strategy. I found the boat was too lively, it kicked and bounced too much. So now I go with a full tank and the boat jumps about less. 

Once out there I do not allow anyone to go inside between Limehouse and Millbank. I have everybody outside, with lifejackets where I can see them. Obviously nobody on the front deck because they will at best get soaked or at worst risk being knocked overboard.

Preparation of the front deck - I do nothing more than close the front doors tightly and make sure there is nothing in the well that could block the drain holes.

And my final tip, you must always try to hit oncoming waves head on or as close to it as you can manage. And for waves coming at you from behind try to turn away from them and run down them like a surfer. This will involve a lot of steering but it is worth it. Taking a big wave sideways is very uncomfortable.

 

splish.jpgsplash.jpg

 

  • Greenie 2
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A little off topic, but I have just noticed that BWML have now submitted the planning application for new leisure moorings in Limehouse along the wall (currently the free 24hr CRT moorings where many boats currently moor up before entering the tideway).  I personally think this is a bad idea, as I have often waited on the wall for the weather/tide to be right and the available 24hr free £25/night thereafter moorings, will be significantly impacted. I will be objecting, but, suspect its a done deal already.

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''We will, we will rock you''. To simulate waves, beam on waves that rock the boat and can stir up muck in the fuel tank which can cause a breakdown and also a nervous one too on the tidal Thames, its worth rocking and rolling the boat from side to side all the way to Limehouse, Brentford ect  whilst on the calm canals before venturing onto the wavey stuff. So with a ''bit of luck or bad luck'' the muck will be stirred up causing you to breakdown before you breakdown, ''Know what I mean Harry''.  Pitching fore and aft,''rocking the boat lengthwise is not really possible on the calm canals though, but rocking side to side should do the trick.  Don't knock the rock. 

Edited by bizzard
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4 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I am far from convinced that is a good idea unless you are going to cover the well  deck to minimise water ingress. If by chance you did take a big wave into the well deck the perhaps the rags would blow out or perhaps they would hinder draining. If you have a cratch water in the well deck would be less likely. I intend to leave those drains free so they will drain but an seriously considering fitting a  washboard across the lower half of the font door aperture so people can still get into the well deck for sight seeing but water will find it harder to get into the boat.

I would add:- plug any fresh water tank breather or clamp the breather hose inside the boat.

 

PS, I think I read of someone who put a large bilge pump in their well deck but I doubt that would drain as fast as your drain holes.

I take your point Tony. I will have my cratch cover zipped up so I doubt there wood be much water getting in there from above. I just worry that the drain holes are so close to the waterline particularly as my 1200 litre fresh water tank in the bow will be full. There is a 5 inch lip/step up to the bottom of the cabin door and it's a fairly big cratch so I think there would have to be a lot of water for it to ingress into the cabin. Perhaps I will try to plug them and have somebody periodically checking on the situation. Or maybe go for Alan's idea of one way flaps.

Thanks also to you others for the latest threads giving useful advice and links. 

Edited by Grassman
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I'd drain off about half of the water in the tank, which will bring the scupper holes up a bit higher and make the bows more bouyant and help stop submarining into large waves. The longer the narrow boat the more subsceptable to burying the bows.

Edited by bizzard
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51 minutes ago, Grassman said:

Perhaps I will try to plug them and have somebody periodically checking on the situation. Or maybe go for Alan's idea of one way flaps.

 

The rough part of the Tideway is Limehouse to Westminster where you are in among the Clippers and the Ribs. But if you are going out at 6am there will be almost no other traffic so it wont be very rough and you wont need any special preparation. I usually go during the day when every boat possible is zooming up and down and all I do is close the front door and keep the well-deck clear and easily drained. 

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