CRT Licence Auto Renew

[WotEver]

On 09/01/2018 at 14:44, frangar said:

Seems the new laws come in on 13th Jan....so you shouldn't be charged more to use a credit card over a debit card

Except with Ryanair probably.

[Arthur Marshall]

3 hours ago, Tanglewood said:

Last Year we assumed that because we had set up a direct debit agreement our licence would be automatically renewed. It wasn't!  When we checked the explanation was that even though we had a DD, CRT do not request the money until we actively authorise it!  Thank goodness my credit card compayy doesn't behave in the same way - I'd run up heaps of interest.

CRT don't appear to have protocols that resemble common recognisable business practices, and they seem to change their practice on a whim.  That said, this sometimes works for boaters as it means they have rules that can be broken if the arguments are persuasive. 

Yes, but that's weird. The whole reason for setting up a DD is so that you can forget about it and be sure it's going to be paid on time, surely. If you've got to authorise it specially, you might as well do it all online anyway.  Barmy.

[Arthur Marshall]

4 hours ago, markeymark said:

Yes, its true. I fell out with CRT before I even got my boat...over the licence. And then me and a mate travelled down from the Trent to Harborough and he was accused on not travelling far enough when we arrived at Welford. We were knackered out after all the locks and really did not need a jobsworth giving grief. We actually travelled for 11 hours a day because my crew had a deadline to go back to Devon so it was an unexpectedly fast journey and not what I had wanted. My friends then decided not to buy a boat as they had come to expect a chilled out time on the canals and the CRT incidence convinced them otherwise. I have only last week emailed CRT yet again to tell them that my boat is out of the water and they claim, now that I spoke to them by phone, not to have received any emails. I had to phone after sending 5 emails since December and they blame my server, not their end.

I am still waiting for a reply from CRT but doubt I will ever get one or an apology. Thanks for your input though!

Sorry if I came over as sarcastic. I think you were probably wrong about the licence issue (it's a pain in the arse the changed system, but it's what it is) but the rest of it I can well understand. I did a stack of 12 hour days many years ago for much the same reason and it's no fun, and to be bollocked by a plonker at the end of it would not have amused me either.

I think emails are always a risky way to communicate and are just too easily deniable, or they simply end up with the wrong person or with someone who doesn't deal with them. If you don't get a reply you just can't assume they've been received. At least with a phone call you can get someone's name (admittedly after an argument sometimes).

[markeymark]

Thanks for that. The sad thing is that I naively believed that life was going to be chilled out once one had paid the licence. I escaped the housing trap cos of all the council jobsworth only to find the CRT behaving to me in the same way. I think that in general there is little pride in the work place nowadays, its all about the elusive 'bottom line' and buck passing. I know now that I should have gone for a degree in telepathy.....would make life a lot easier!

[Naughty Cal]

15 hours ago, markeymark said:

Yes, its true. I fell out with CRT before I even got my boat...over the licence. And then me and a mate travelled down from the Trent to Harborough and he was accused on not travelling far enough when we arrived at Welford. We were knackered out after all the locks and really did not need a jobsworth giving grief. We actually travelled for 11 hours a day because my crew had a deadline to go back to Devon so it was an unexpectedly fast journey and not what I had wanted. My friends then decided not to buy a boat as they had come to expect a chilled out time on the canals and the CRT incidence convinced them otherwise. I have only last week emailed CRT yet again to tell them that my boat is out of the water and they claim, now that I spoke to them by phone, not to have received any emails. I had to phone after sending 5 emails since December and they blame my server, not their end.

I am still waiting for a reply from CRT but doubt I will ever get one or an apology. Thanks for your input though!

Which email address did you send them too?

[markeymark]

My emails  were sent to the customer service address at CRT

[dor]

15 hours ago, Tanglewood said:

Last Year we assumed that because we had set up a direct debit agreement our licence would be automatically renewed. It wasn't!  When we checked the explanation was that even though we had a DD, CRT do not request the money until we actively authorise it!  Thank goodness my credit card compayy doesn't behave in the same way - I'd run up heaps of interest.

CRT don't appear to have protocols that resemble common recognisable business practices, and they seem to change their practice on a whim.  That said, this sometimes works for boaters as it means they have rules that can be broken if the arguments are persuasive. 

Very odd.  My direct debit was set up a few years ago and it has never been a problem.  They just take the money on the 1st or a few days later.

[Tanglewood]

29 minutes ago, dor said:

Very odd.  My direct debit was set up a few years ago and it has never been a problem.  They just take the money on the 1st or a few days later.

Mmm.  That is odd.  Perhaps we were being told porkies.  If that is the case it would explain why CRT were so willing to give us our early payment discount, as were were definitely outside the window for that.

 

Just checked the licensing web-site to check the dates from last year and find that we actually were two weeks outside the prompt payment discount window, despite having set up a direct debit.  I also find that we have now registered a debit card, so auto-renew might work.  As I understood it direct debit should have been  straight from the bank account.  If there is no longer a charge for credit cards, might change to that as there are advantages to using a Tesco credit card!

Edited January 11, 2018 by Tanglewood
To add more information

[Mike Todd]

49 minutes ago, Tanglewood said:

Mmm.  That is odd.  Perhaps we were being told porkies.  If that is the case it would explain why CRT were so willing to give us our early payment discount, as were were definitely outside the window for that.

 

Just checked the licensing web-site to check the dates from last year and find that we actually were two weeks outside the prompt payment discount window, despite having set up a direct debit.  I also find that we have now registered a debit card, so auto-renew might work.  As I understood it direct debit should have been  straight from the bank account.  If there is no longer a charge for credit cards, might change to that as there are advantages to using a Tesco credit card!

The change in the law is not to say that no charge be made for a credit card, only that such a charge must apply to all payment methods. We have already seen some internet based businesses applying the charge for cash and debit cards. But at least the scam is transparent . . . 

[Mac of Cygnet]

44 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

The change in the law is not to say that no charge be made for a credit card, only that such a charge must apply to all payment methods. We have already seen some internet based businesses applying the charge for cash and debit cards. But at least the scam is transparent . . . 

How do you pay cash to an internet business?  Plain brown envelope?

[Robbo]

1 minute ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

How do you pay cash to an internet business?  Plain brown envelope?

Bank Transfer

[Mac of Cygnet]

30 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Bank Transfer

That's how I pay my mooring fees, but I don't count it as 'cash'.

[Robbo]

3 minutes ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

That's how I pay my mooring fees, but I don't count it as 'cash'.

Well it’s not fairy dust.

[Naughty Cal]

3 hours ago, markeymark said:

My emails  were sent to the customer service address at CRT

Which is?

[Mac of Cygnet]

59 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Well it’s not fairy dust.

I think it is.  It's just numbers  information moving from one computer to another.  The only difference between that and credit/debit cards is that someone isn't creaming off a percentage.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Mac of Cygnet

[Robbo]

31 minutes ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

I think it is.  It's just numbers  information moving from one computer to another.  The only difference between that and credit/debit cards is that someone isn't creaming off a percentage.

Money is just an IOU, there's nothing really physical behind any of it.

[Mac of Cygnet]

1 hour ago, Robbo said:

Money is just an IOU, there's nothing really physical behind any of it.

No, not since the end of the Gold Standard.  But at least cash (at least what I call cash) has a physical presence, like other tangible assets, eg artworks and precious metals.  The restrictions on cash which are insidiously being introduced in the name of anti-fraud and money laundering are all pointing to greater control over your money by the government and the banks.

[Mike Todd]

4 hours ago, Robbo said:

Bank Transfer

In some instances, cheques are counted as cash (almost).

[Robbo]

29 minutes ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

No, not since the end of the Gold Standard.  But at least cash (at least what I call cash) has a physical presence, like other tangible assets, eg artworks and precious metals.  The restrictions on cash which are insidiously being introduced in the name of anti-fraud and money laundering are all pointing to greater control over your money by the government and the banks.

What do you mean no then?   Cash is just legal tender, it has no physical value itself other than an IOU (ie not backed up by anything physical like Gold).  

8 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

In some instances, cheques are counted as cash (almost).

I've heard of cheques

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

In some instances, cheques are counted as cash (almost).

But cheques are not legal tender and no one is obliged to accept them in payment - even more so since the 'cheque guarantee' card was removed.

 

Ever since their inception it has been the case that cheques are not a promise to pay by the bank, but a request to the bank that it pays, out of the funds deposited by the customer, an amount to a third party. This means that the bank will only honour the cheque if the account holder has sufficient funds to meet it or it can be covered by an agreed overdraft or other line of credit. Cheques are not legal tender and never have been. Even today, if you owe someone money they are not obliged to accept a cheque. Instead a creditor is entitled to be paid in legal tender and can refuse payment in any other form. 

[Mac of Cygnet]

7 hours ago, Robbo said:

What do you mean no then?   Cash is just legal tender, it has no physical value itself other than an IOU (ie not backed up by anything physical like Gold).  

I've heard of cheques

I was agreeing with you!  However banknotes aren't even an IOU these days - they no longer say 'The Governor of (whichever bank - we have several here) promises to pay the bearer the sum of...'    But they do have a physical value in that they can be exchanged for goods and services and are physically present, unlike a bank transfer.  Gold has a physical presence too, but is rather less useful for buying the groceries!

[ditchcrawler]

Just checked and I don't have a card stored but I do pay by card each year

[jam]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Just checked and I don't have a card stored but I do pay by card each year

Same Here

[Robbo]

5 hours ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

I was agreeing with you!  However banknotes aren't even an IOU these days - they no longer say 'The Governor of (whichever bank - we have several here) promises to pay the bearer the sum of...'    But they do have a physical value in that they can be exchanged for goods and services and are physically present, unlike a bank transfer.  Gold has a physical presence too, but is rather less useful for buying the groceries!

Not sure why you would start your reply with no then!  I disagree with the physical value, as the old £5 notes (as well as other out of date money) are now not physically worth anything.

 

[Mike Todd]

19 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But cheques are not legal tender and no one is obliged to accept them in payment - even more so since the 'cheque guarantee' card was removed.

 

Ever since their inception it has been the case that cheques are not a promise to pay by the bank, but a request to the bank that it pays, out of the funds deposited by the customer, an amount to a third party. This means that the bank will only honour the cheque if the account holder has sufficient funds to meet it or it can be covered by an agreed overdraft or other line of credit. Cheques are not legal tender and never have been. Even today, if you owe someone money they are not obliged to accept a cheque. Instead a creditor is entitled to be paid in legal tender and can refuse payment in any other form. 

But you cannot insist that the creditor accepts cash - and, in any case, there are limits on what cash represents legal tender, as I recall. ie you cannot deliver a sackful of pennies and require someone to accept them. Cash is, for a business, one of the more expensive ways of obtaining payment.