CRT Licence Auto Renew

[frangar]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before but I just logged onto the CRT licensing website to check some details only to find that the Auto renew setting had been checked.....now I might have done this last year but I'm not so sure that I did....... so it might be worth checking especially as Ive heard that due to new some legislation your might not be charged extra for a credit card in the next few months.

Gareth

Edited to add.....

Seems the new laws come in on 13th Jan....so you shouldn't be charged more to use a credit card over a debit card

Edited January 9, 2018 by frangar

[Robbo]

1 hour ago, frangar said:

Seems the new laws come in on 13th Jan....so you shouldn't be charged more to use a credit card over a debit card

They probably take away the ability to pay via Credit Card like a few other places have (DVLA I believe have).

[frangar]

2 minutes ago, Robbo said:

They probably take away the ability to pay via Credit Card like a few other places have (DVLA I believe have).

I did wonder if that might happen.....i was wondering about the DVLA....mind you hopefully my Land Rover will become free this year!!

[Kendorr]

Thanks, just checked and mine also was set to auto renew, changed now.

[Arthur Marshall]

So was mine. I think this is going to surprise a lot of people - I am certain I never set the auto renew. I need to be sure I've got enough cash in the right account before i send it all off rather than let them take it whenever they want.

[frangar]

50 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

So was mine. I think this is going to surprise a lot of people - I am certain I never set the auto renew. I need to be sure I've got enough cash in the right account before i send it all off rather than let them take it whenever they want.

Interesting!! At least I’m not going totally mad....and my post might have been useful! 

[PD1964]

Yeah mine too, as I pay by Direct Debit I don't mind the auto renewal as last year forgot about it.  Just wondering if it would auto-renew if your BSS or insurance has expired, so the boat has not got one or the other?

Edited January 9, 2018 by PD1964

[Mac of Cygnet]

5 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

So was mine. I think this is going to surprise a lot of people - I am certain I never set the auto renew. I need to be sure I've got enough cash in the right account before i send it all off rather than let them take it whenever they want.

I just had a look at mine, and a button said 'Add Auto Renew Card'.  Which I didn't. To allow auto renew you must presumably allow them to store your card details.  Which I don't.  I don't see how you can set auto renew without allowing them to store your card details.  Or does this only apply to credit cards - I use a debit card.

[Arthur Marshall]

Just now, Mac of Cygnet said:

I just had a look at mine, and a button said 'Add Auto Renew Card'.  Which I didn't. To allow auto renew you must presumably allow them to store your card details.  Which I don't.  I don't see how you can set auto renew without allowing them to store your card details.  Or does this only apply to credit cards - I use a debit card.

No, I use a debit card and mine had been set as auto. It won't auto renew if your card runs out of date or your BSS has expired.  I just don;t like the auto thing in case it takes it when my bank hasn't got enough money there to pay it - as a poor starving OAP I have to save up for this stuff and then transfer the funds. 

[john6767]

9 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

No, I use a debit card and mine had been set as auto. It won't auto renew if your card runs out of date or your BSS has expired.  I just don;t like the auto thing in case it takes it when my bank hasn't got enough money there to pay it - as a poor starving OAP I have to save up for this stuff and then transfer the funds. 

Also presumably if your insurance details have not been update?

[Naughty Cal]

Just checked ours as a matter of interest and it is not set to auto renew.

[dor]

I'm quite happy with them auto-renewing and in the past they have always taken it by Direct Debit.  The advantage to me is that as long as there is enough money in the current account (which there usually is as the bank pay a decent interest on it) the money is taken on the first of the month.  So, no forgetting and losing early payment discount, and not paying earlier than I have to.

[frangar]

26 minutes ago, dor said:

I'm quite happy with them auto-renewing and in the past they have always taken it by Direct Debit.  The advantage to me is that as long as there is enough money in the current account (which there usually is as the bank pay a decent interest on it) the money is taken on the first of the month.  So, no forgetting and losing early payment discount, and not paying earlier than I have to.

I’m all for the choice of it but I don’t remember setting it up....that’s not to say I didn’t though!!!

[markeymark]

I was sent an auto-renew email by CRT in December. I replied with a question as to whether or not I would get the early renewal discount. They never replied. Today I spent 15 mins arguing with CRT who say they never received any emails from me ( I sent 4 emails from 21 dec to Jan 8th).My boat was licenced originally for 6 months and when I asked them at the time what was the cost difference between 2 x 6 months licence and a 1 year licence it was cheaper to licence it for a year. I asked them to change it but they said " Its gone through now as a 6 month licence, we cant change it" I believe this is illegal as you have a 2 weeks cooling off period after paying with credit or debit card. My trust in CRT....Zero. They also tried to rip me off on the licence starting it before I had even got on the boat. It was fully licenced up to end of July 2017 by the seller and yet they tried to charge me for July . I told them I was not taking the boat on until August...eventually they ralented but it was a stressful time for me.

[Mike Todd]

44 minutes ago, markeymark said:

I was sent an auto-renew email by CRT in December. I replied with a question as to whether or not I would get the early renewal discount. They never replied. Today I spent 15 mins arguing with CRT who say they never received any emails from me ( I sent 4 emails from 21 dec to Jan 8th).My boat was licenced originally for 6 months and when I asked them at the time what was the cost difference between 2 x 6 months licence and a 1 year licence it was cheaper to licence it for a year. I asked them to change it but they said " Its gone through now as a 6 month licence, we cant change it" I believe this is illegal as you have a 2 weeks cooling off period after paying with credit or debit card. My trust in CRT....Zero. They also tried to rip me off on the licence starting it before I had even got on the boat. It was fully licenced up to end of July 2017 by the seller and yet they tried to charge me for July . I told them I was not taking the boat on until August...eventually they ralented but it was a stressful time for me.

I suspect that the application of auto renew to most accounts was probably something done at a low level in IT rather than a Board level decision. It's the sort of thing that many companies have tried to do in order to boost their cash flow. Perhaps a boater rep could take this up officially, but I don't actually know any personally.

I'm less sympathetic to the point about the start date for a licence. The T&C are quite clear that licences start from the first of a month - not unlike most similar situations. Similarly, licences are not (now) transferable. When we were on the verge of licencing our new build boat last spring it was clear that it was slipping towards the turn from March to April but we needed a registration number so that it could be painted on, along with the name. This can be done as a separate transaction. I calculated that it was better to do this and take the hit of the small extra cost rather than 'waste' a whole month's licence. In the end, the handover was after office closing time on 31st and we took ownership from midnight!

You just have to be a bit savvy about these matters and not ignore the info that is available. Of course, we all make mistakes (including 'blinking' at the wrong moment) from time to time . . . 

[markeymark]

Hi Mike, I appreciate your reply. However, I had stated to CRT my position quite clearly and still they took the money despite the seller having paid until the end of the month. In effect CRT were trying to get an extra months licence from me.  I told CRT that I wanted the licence to start in August and not July but they insisted that because I had paid for the boat in July that I must start the licence from July. I did not take possession of the boat until August as the seller had to remove his belongings......not an auspicious start to my boating life. I a now thinking of selling up completely and not starting a business on the canals because I have so little faith in CRT.

Hi Mike, i would like to add the CRT is supposed to be a charity and not a 'business' as in profit -making but maybe I am naive? !!

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, markeymark said:

maybe I am naive? !!

C&RT is a 'limited company' with charitable aims of getting sufficient income to maintain the network for public benefit (my summary)

They are not a 'charity' (as some people seem to think) that takes from the rich and gives to the poor, provides water for Ethiopian children, or blankets for Burmese migrants.

 

The Trust’s objects are:
2.1 to preserve, protect, operate and manage Inland Waterways for public benefit:
2.1.1 for navigation;
2.1.2 for walking on towpaths; and
2.1.3 for recreation or other leisure-time pursuits of the public in the interest of their health and social welfare;

2.2 to protect and conserve for public benefit sites, objects and buildings of archaeological, architectural, engineering or historic interest on, in the vicinity of, or otherwise associated with Inland Waterways;

2.3 to further for the public benefit the conservation protection and improvement of the natural environment and landscape of Inland Waterways;

2.4 to promote, facilitate, undertake and assist in, for public benefit, the restoration and improvement of Inland Waterways;

2.5 to promote and facilitate for public benefit awareness, learning and education about Inland Waterways, their history, development, use, operation and cultural heritage by all appropriate means including the provision of museums;

2.6 to promote sustainable development in the vicinity of any Inland Waterway for the benefit of the public, in particular by:
2.6.1 the improvement of the conditions of life in socially and economically disadvantaged communities in such vicinity; and
2.6.2 the promotion of sustainable means of achieving economic growth and regeneration and the prudent use of natural resources; 

2.7 to further any purpose which is exclusively charitable under the law of England and Wales connected with Inland Waterways;
 

16 minutes ago, markeymark said:

I have so little faith in CRT.

Welcome to the real world.

[markeymark]

Hi Alan, thanks for that comprehensive list of CRTs responsibilities. I can find fault in many of the responsibilities that they are charged with protecting. The very lack of any recycling initiatives for one (point 2.3) , the fact that they are now charging marinas for elsan disposal when it is already included in licence fee, (thats pure money-making). Harrassing boat-owners by claiming that they were not continuous cruisers when I witnessed an enforcement officer giving an enforcement notice to a boater who I know for a fact was 80 miles away only 3 days before...we travelled in convoy and yet the enforcement officer claimed he had been at the mooring for more than 2 weeks, totally untrue.

I have no problem with paying a licence at all but I do resent the attitude that CRT are taking. I think the amount of people on this site who have little faith in CRT reflects my own feelings

[Alan de Enfield]

36 minutes ago, markeymark said:

I think the amount of people on this site who have little faith in CRT

There are quite a few - but - there are also those for whom C&RT are on the top of a very high pedestal and can do no wrong.

[markeymark]

Well said Alan, many are like government officials who despite our representative democratic system dont appear to represent us at all...they are in it for the money.

I might take my boat to France and see if its any better there.

[dor]

1 hour ago, markeymark said:

Hi Mike, I appreciate your reply. However, I had stated to CRT my position quite clearly and still they took the money despite the seller having paid until the end of the month. In effect CRT were trying to get an extra months licence from me.  I told CRT that I wanted the licence to start in August and not July but they insisted that because I had paid for the boat in July that I must start the licence from July. I did not take possession of the boat until August as the seller had to remove his belongings......not an auspicious start to my boating life. I a now thinking of selling up completely and not starting a business on the canals because I have so little faith in CRT.

Hi Mike, i would like to add the CRT is supposed to be a charity and not a 'business' as in profit -making but maybe I am naive? !!

If you paid for the boat in July, then that was when you took ownership, so not unreasonable for CRT to say that is when you should license it from.

Personally I wouldn't pay for a boat before I had full possession.   And perhaps being a bit more careful about what date I told CRT the handover was carried out.

[Naughty Cal]

1 hour ago, markeymark said:

Hi Mike, I appreciate your reply. However, I had stated to CRT my position quite clearly and still they took the money despite the seller having paid until the end of the month. In effect CRT were trying to get an extra months licence from me.  I told CRT that I wanted the licence to start in August and not July but they insisted that because I had paid for the boat in July that I must start the licence from July. I did not take possession of the boat until August as the seller had to remove his belongings......not an auspicious start to my boating life. I a now thinking of selling up completely and not starting a business on the canals because I have so little faith in CRT.

Hi Mike, i would like to add the CRT is supposed to be a charity and not a 'business' as in profit -making but maybe I am naive? !!

The licence is non transferable, much like car tax. You have to relicence the boat at the point of sale.

1 hour ago, markeymark said:

Hi Alan, thanks for that comprehensive list of CRTs responsibilities. I can find fault in many of the responsibilities that they are charged with protecting. The very lack of any recycling initiatives for one (point 2.3) , the fact that they are now charging marinas for elsan disposal when it is already included in licence fee, (thats pure money-making). Harrassing boat-owners by claiming that they were not continuous cruisers when I witnessed an enforcement officer giving an enforcement notice to a boater who I know for a fact was 80 miles away only 3 days before...we travelled in convoy and yet the enforcement officer claimed he had been at the mooring for more than 2 weeks, totally untrue.

I have no problem with paying a licence at all but I do resent the attitude that CRT are taking. I think the amount of people on this site who have little faith in CRT reflects my own feelings

They perhaps resent your attitude towards them as well.

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, markeymark said:

Hi Alan, thanks for that comprehensive list of CRTs responsibilities. I can find fault in many of the responsibilities that they are charged with protecting. The very lack of any recycling initiatives for one (point 2.3) , the fact that they are now charging marinas for elsan disposal when it is already included in licence fee, (thats pure money-making). Harrassing boat-owners by claiming that they were not continuous cruisers when I witnessed an enforcement officer giving an enforcement notice to a boater who I know for a fact was 80 miles away only 3 days before...we travelled in convoy and yet the enforcement officer claimed he had been at the mooring for more than 2 weeks, totally untrue.

I have no problem with paying a licence at all but I do resent the attitude that CRT are taking. I think the amount of people on this site who have little faith in CRT reflects my own feelings

You do seem to have fallen out with CRT remarkably quickly.  I must admit I've only had my boat for thirty years  bu have always found BW and subsequently CRT always helpful.  I have friends who as CCers have had various degrees of unwarranted warning notices, but all these have been sorted out in a friendly manner over the phone. There again, I don't think I've ever even tried to do 80 miles in 3 days, that must be about 7 hours a day plus time for locks. Hard work, even in convoy, and definitely continuous cruising!

[markeymark]

Yes, its true. I fell out with CRT before I even got my boat...over the licence. And then me and a mate travelled down from the Trent to Harborough and he was accused on not travelling far enough when we arrived at Welford. We were knackered out after all the locks and really did not need a jobsworth giving grief. We actually travelled for 11 hours a day because my crew had a deadline to go back to Devon so it was an unexpectedly fast journey and not what I had wanted. My friends then decided not to buy a boat as they had come to expect a chilled out time on the canals and the CRT incidence convinced them otherwise. I have only last week emailed CRT yet again to tell them that my boat is out of the water and they claim, now that I spoke to them by phone, not to have received any emails. I had to phone after sending 5 emails since December and they blame my server, not their end.

I am still waiting for a reply from CRT but doubt I will ever get one or an apology. Thanks for your input though!

[Tanglewood]

Last Year we assumed that because we had set up a direct debit agreement our licence would be automatically renewed. It wasn't!  When we checked the explanation was that even though we had a DD, CRT do not request the money until we actively authorise it!  Thank goodness my credit card compayy doesn't behave in the same way - I'd run up heaps of interest.

CRT don't appear to have protocols that resemble common recognisable business practices, and they seem to change their practice on a whim.  That said, this sometimes works for boaters as it means they have rules that can be broken if the arguments are persuasive.