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Winter moorings question


blackrat779

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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

20 ?

(is that miles or Km ?

According to her  posts not to many since it's been Icy, but unless I got it wrong she is being advised by Brindley & Telford ( re the part some older folk that practically dug the canals)for some reason I cannot fathom there seems an awful lot of pent up anger but she could  maybe if she chooses to enlighten us Well me a least as I cannot comprehend the reason for the rise into orbit

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1 hour ago, Jenwil said:

So I’m selfish for not wanting to move my boat in foul weather and crack my head open on icy locks?

 

Yes. Selfish when all the rest of us who do not want to CC in winter take a mooring and pay for it. You want to avoid paying for a mooring and not move too, it appears to me. I class that a selfish. 

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1 hour ago, Jenwil said:

So I’m selfish for not wanting to move my boat in foul weather and crack my head open on icy locks?

I don't think that's selfish. For me, the clue is in the name - 'Winter Mooring'. CRT have obviously recognised that it's reasonable to want to stop for longer in the circumstances (that it's winter). If all the other circumstances of the mooring make it reasonable, and no extra services are provided, I don't see how not paying for it can suddenly make it unreasonable (or selfish, or anti-social).  

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10 minutes ago, Red Ruth said:

I don't think that's selfish. For me, the clue is in the name - 'Winter Mooring'. CRT have obviously recognised that it's reasonable to want to stop for longer in the circumstances (that it's winter). If all the other circumstances of the mooring make it reasonable, and no extra services are provided, I don't see how not paying for it can suddenly make it unreasonable (or selfish, or anti-social).  

 

So why does the law not provide for boats with no home mooring to remain stationary through the winter?

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3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

So why does the law not provide for boats with no home mooring to remain stationary through the winter?

I thought it said you could stop for longer than 14 days if it was 'reasonable in the circumstances'?  I'm just saying CRT's winter moorings have identified places where it is reasonable to stop for longer than 14 days in the circumstances of winter. I don't see how not paying extra for it if there are no extra services or facilities makes it not reasonable to stop there. was all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

So why does the law not provide for boats with no home mooring to remain stationary through the winter?

 

14 minutes ago, Red Ruth said:

...........t's reasonable to want to stop for longer in the circumstances (that it's winter).

In Ruth's mind it does.

The law .........reasonable circumstances ........

Ruth.........  Winter is (apparently) reasonable circumstances.

Too many barrack room lawyers about !!!!!

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1 minute ago, Red Ruth said:

I thought it said you could stop for longer than 14 days if it was 'reasonable in the circumstances'?  I'm just saying CRT's winter moorings have identified places where it is reasonable to stop for longer than 14 days in the circumstances of winter. I don't see how not paying extra for it if there are no extra services or facilities makes it not reasonable to stop there. was all. 

 

It depends on what turns out to be 'reasonable'. 

Heavy ice and snow would probably be classed as reasonable, as would flood conditions. But a normal cold (but not freezing) day like today, I doubt a court would consider it reasonable to refuse to move. 

Perhaps a good rule of thumb would be if conditions matched those when the working boats stopped (back in the days of commercial carrying on the cut), then it would be reasonable for a hobby CCer to stop moving too. 

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9 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

It depends on what turns out to be 'reasonable'. 

Yep, fair enough. We can argue forever about that but let's not bother. I just wanted to say I don't think it's selfish to want to avoid cracking your head off an icy lock. I thought it was a bit harsh. Anything other than that is on a case by case weather permitting basis obviously. 

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2 minutes ago, Red Ruth said:

Yep, fair enough. We can argue forever about that but let's not bother. I just wanted to say I don't think it's selfish to want to avoid cracking your head off an icy lock. I thought it was a bit harsh. Anything other than that is on a case by case weather permitting basis obviously. 

 

I think we are in agreement there.

It's just that icy days probably add up to no more than about ten in any given winter. The lovely jenwil is attempting to use this as a feeble excuse to avoid moving for five months in each year. 

'Pretend CCer' or what!

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35 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

In Ruth's mind it does.

no, not my mind. I don't know what's reasonable! I was saying that I thought that by identifying places where it's reasonable to stop for the winter and offering the opportunity to do that (for a price) CRT had said that in 'their' mind it may be reasonable to want to stop for the winter. But I'm out of my depth (excuse the pun), so i'll leave that. I don't know who's pretend or who isn't. Anyway, we agree. It's not selfish or anti-social not to move if it's dangerous to. 

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3 hours ago, Jenwil said:

So I’m selfish for not wanting to move my boat in foul weather and crack my head open on icy locks?

Well I’m on the Mac 

Bit hard to crack your head on a lock, then, isn't it? You've only got Bosley and one stoplock, and plenty of miles in each direction to do your 14 day moves before you reach another one.  Good mooring and shops at Macc, Bollington, Marple, and on the Peak Forest on the upper and at Congleton and the junction on the lower, plus a trip through the tunnel to Stoke should the mood take you.  Not exactly stuck for lock-free cruising, should you want to do it continuously, like your agreement with CRT says.  Complaining about locks on the Macc is a bit like whinging about the swing bridges on the Ashby...

Mind you, if you do decide to have a go at Bosley when it's icy (or raining apparently - just as dangerous, I understand), you do get twelve opportunities do do something stupid.  And they're a pain in the bum to do on your own, even in sunshine.

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13 hours ago, Red Ruth said:

no, not my mind. I don't know what's reasonable! I was saying that I thought that by identifying places where it's reasonable to stop for the winter and offering the opportunity to do that (for a price) CRT had said that in 'their' mind it may be reasonable to want to stop for the winter. But I'm out of my depth (excuse the pun), so i'll leave that. I don't know who's pretend or who isn't. Anyway, we agree. It's not selfish or anti-social not to move if it's dangerous to. 

I thought that Winter Moorings were for those who wanted to stay put rather than those who, because of circumstance, had to stay.

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1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

I thought that Winter Moorings were for those who wanted to stay put rather than those who, because of circumstance, had to stay.

 

I don't get the meaning behind this comment

Do you hold that no-one should be expected to cruise during the winter months at all? (Or pay for a mooring either?)

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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We 'flew' the Caen Hill flight last Friday. It wasn't icy but the locks and surrounding stone work etc. we're certainly slippy. Didn't think it warranted staying put at the bottom of the locks so we just took extra care, as you do, walked around the locks rather than 'risking' a topple and cracking our heads. The only conditions we won't move in are frozen canal and extremely adverse weather, no point in our view. 

CRT, we have found, are very understanding of personal situations regarding moving on. Talk to them. We have seen boats moored for far longer than it appears they should. It is a bit selfish if that be the case, but we do, sadly, live in a changed selfish environment. 

To add. Over the last three years I can,with confidence, say we have probably Cruised more miles that the majority of other permanent Leisure boaters. There are most definitely boaters that have moved further than us, but they are in the minority. No point in getting aggressive, selfish or even jealous of fellow boaters. 

Go with the flow, baby, go with the flow.

 

Edited by Nightwatch
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The winter moorings just irk me as they are, in this area at least, in prime spots - understandably as CRT want to sell them. The prime spots are busy in the summer with all the hirers and marina dwellers, then they bugger off, but the moorings get filled with WMers!!

I don't agree with permie moorings on the towpath side either, but at least they don't get my hopes up!!

chunterchunter

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3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I don't get the meaning behind this comment

Do you hold that no-one should be expected to cruise during the winter months at all? (Or pay for a mooring either?)

The distinction is that boaters who are effectively compelled by circumstances beyond their control to stay in one place for longer than 14 days come under the 'reasonable circumstances' rule. But, as has been pointed out, this does not extend to those who want to stay put for their own convenience such as not wanting to move in inclement, but feasible, weather conditions.This is only permitted through a Winter Mooring. Want and need are thus differentiated.

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38 minutes ago, sirweste said:

..............but the moorings get filled with WMers!!

So, just to be clear :

A Homer is a boat with a Home Mooring

A Conmer is a boat that normally 'Continuously Moors' and Cons C&RT into thinking they are CCers

A Winmer is a boat that is normally either a Conmer or a CCer, but is now a 'legalised short term Homer'

A CCer keeps going all Winter and only stays more than 14 days in adverse, (but for 'reasonable') circumstances.

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19 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes. Selfish when all the rest of us who do not want to CC in winter take a mooring and pay for it. You want to avoid paying for a mooring and not move too, it appears to me. I class that a selfish. 

We know by now that MtB is the most generous of contributors :) : generous to a fault. :P

Edited by LadyG
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9 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

We 'flew' the Caen Hill flight last Friday. It wasn't icy but the locks and surrounding stone work etc. we're certainly slippy. Didn't think it warranted staying put at the bottom of the locks so we just took extra care, as you do, walked around the locks rather than 'risking' a topple and cracking our heads. The only conditions we won't move in are frozen canal and extremely adverse weather, no point in our view. 

CRT, we have found, are very understanding of personal situations regarding moving on. Talk to them. We have seen boats moored for far longer than it appears they should. It is a bit selfish if that be the case, but we do, sadly, live in a changed selfish environment. 

To add. Over the last three years I can,with confidence, say we have probably Cruised more miles that the majority of other permanent Leisure boaters. There are most definitely boaters that have moved further than us, but they are in the minority. No point in getting aggressive, selfish or even jealous of fellow boaters. 

Go with the flow, baby, go with the flow.

 

And that's how it should be in my opinion. We would love to cruise further but until the pensions kick in we're tied to work and an area to cruise. Whether viewed as 'genuine' continuous cruisers by other boaters or not, I am not concerned,  CRT are happy with my range and frequency of movement, and that's what counts. I don't want to stay more than 14 days in one place, the winter rarely stops me moving, bar ice on the canal. Ultimately we have boats to enjoy them how we see fit, unfortunately there are always some who will take the mickey and push their luck. Fine I can moor in a beautiful spot away from anyone else and enjoy a pleasant walk to the car with my pooch. 

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On 17/01/2018 at 22:38, Arthur Marshall said:

Bit hard to crack your head on a lock, then, isn't it? You've only got Bosley and one stoplock, and plenty of miles in each direction to do your 14 day moves before you reach another one.  Good mooring and shops at Macc, Bollington, Marple, and on the Peak Forest on the upper and at Congleton and the junction on the lower, plus a trip through the tunnel to Stoke should the mood take you.  Not exactly stuck for lock-free cruising, should you want to do it continuously, like your agreement with CRT says.  Complaining about locks on the Macc is a bit like whinging about the swing bridges on the Ashby...

Mind you, if you do decide to have a go at Bosley when it's icy (or raining apparently - just as dangerous, I understand), you do get twelve opportunities do do something stupid.  And they're a pain in the bum to do on your own, even in sunshine.

I have travelled to London and back and my license period has 3 months to go I am a boater, you on the other hand linger around the north of England while talking shite on this forum pretending to be a boater, simply leave me alone.

If I need to stay put because I deem the weather foul then I will do so, if there are no locks there are still slippy gunwhales and decks which the law recognises as reasonable,you can lick my middle finger if you don’t like it and CRT will not be mithered either.

 

I don’t have an agreement with CRT I have a license to cruise, having a license and agreeing to terms and conditions are worlds apart, and before you go on with more diretribe save it the law couldn’t give two hoots and neither can I.

 

Edited by Jenwil
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3 minutes ago, Jenwil said:

I have travelled to London and back and my license period has 3 months to go I am a boater, you on the other hand linger around the north of England while talking shite on this forum pretending to be a boater, simply leave me alone.

If I need to stay put because I deem the weather foul then I will do say,you can lick my middle finger if you don’t like it and CRT will not be mithered either.

I don’t have an agreement with CRT I have a license to cruise, having a license and agreeing to terms and conditions are worlds apart, and before you go on with more diretribe save it the law couldn’t give two hoots and neither can I.

Rather aggressive what? Never mind eh!

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6 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Rather aggressive what? Never mind eh!

 Because I’m not here to explain myself to people who simply have no place or authority to question me, it’s simply none of their business, its like seriously get a bloody life or move back in a house with your land based attitudes,  real boaters don’t give a stuff they know what’s what and get on with it end of they dont talk down and judge others on a ‘canal forum’ holier than thou.

 

Edited by Jenwil
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