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Pubs owned by the CRT


Heartland

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Some years ago BW (C&RT) went into the 'Pub business' and purchased quite a lot - they subsequently lost not only their (our) shirts, but vest and pants as well.

They have now, I believe, completely got out of the pub business by selling the pubs off at a large loss.

It was a huge mistake and  very poor management decision - there were something like 50 pubs per week going bust, but a waterways authority knew better than the 'industry'.

There are today 589 'freehold' pubs listed for sale. A couple of miles up the road from us there is a very nice 'country pub' (tied house) with the lease up for sale for £1. The brewery could not get anyone to take it and eventually had to put in a manager (salary paid by the brewery).

It is not a growth industry, and not ideal for the investment of  'public money'.

 

EDIT TO ADD (FROM 2006)

..........It states that British Waterways currently owns 33 pubs and plans to increase the number to 100 over the next 4 years. I'd be very surprised that they intend to build 67 new pubs so must conclude that they intend to buy up most of those. This could mean that many of the free pubs situated round the system will come under BW's umbrella restricting choice. How BW intend to persuade these pubs to sell is open to interpretation.

Following the Defra matter it would appear that BW is not so short of cash as first appeared!!

What is also clear is the direction BW is going, property purchase/development first, canals second!!!!

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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2 hours ago, Heartland said:

I understand that the CRT own the Wharf at Earlswood, as well as the moorings there, beside the Stratford upon Avon Canal. If this is the case I wonder how many drinking hostelries are in CRT ownership

I believe CRT own the freehold on many established canal side pubs such as The Greyhound, The Swan, Three Locks and others. Rather than them having been purchased I figured these had always been situated on canal company land.

Isn't The Wharf at Earlswood part of the Lady Lane Cruising Club buildings and is a modern build rather than a historic pub?

JP

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There's a list of the 30 pubs that were transferred to the Waterside Pub Partnership on page 6/7 of this 2005 NABO News: http://nabo.org.uk/files/nabo-news/nn-2005/2.pdf

and then a WW report from 2011 on the 10 they bought back when WPP collapsed: http://www.waterwaysworld.com/latestpost.cgi?post=2514

Not sure who now owns the other 20. WPP was one of the "ventures" that Robin Evans launched during his tenure as Chief Executive, along with Watergrid, Waterscape.com, and a bunch of property projects.

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50 minutes ago, Richard Fairhurst said:

There's a list of the 30 pubs that were transferred to the Waterside Pub Partnership on page 6/7 of this 2005 NABO News: http://nabo.org.uk/files/nabo-news/nn-2005/2.pdf

and then a WW report from 2011 on the 10 they bought back when WPP collapsed: http://www.waterwaysworld.com/latestpost.cgi?post=2514

Not sure who now owns the other 20. WPP was one of the "ventures" that Robin Evans launched during his tenure as Chief Executive, along with Watergrid, Waterscape.com, and a bunch of property projects.

I have always felt that the Waterside Pub Partnership was a vanity project initiated by BW chair Tony Hales. In 1999 he was forced to step down as chief executive at Allied Domecq following poor performance of its (3,500? outlet) pub division.

In effect, BW lost the capital value of its 30 pubs - I would guess about £15m.

BW also wrote off a £2.6m cash investment in the pub partnership early on and a further £2.75m as a creditor.

So over £20m lost. 

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15 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

I have always felt that the Waterside Pub Partnership was a vanity project initiated by BW chair Tony Hales. In 1999 he was forced to step down as chief executive at Allied Domecq following poor performance of its (3,500? outlet) pub division.

In effect, BW lost the capital value of its 30 pubs - I would guess about £15m.

BW also wrote off a £2.6m cash investment in the pub partnership early on and a further £2.75m as a creditor.

So over £20m lost. 

Yup - lost 'our' (tax & licence payers) shirt, vest, pants and boots.

And then the management wonders why they don't have any credibility with the 'thinking boaters'.

£20m would pay for a lot of maintenance even at todays prices.

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14 hours ago, Heartland said:

I understand that the CRT own the Wharf at Earlswood, as well as the moorings there, beside the Stratford upon Avon Canal. If this is the case I wonder how many drinking hostelries are in CRT ownership

It's not a pub, more like a club house serving beer and food. CRT rent out the building.

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The basic idea can be made to work. My Mum is a member of the Hereford and Gloucester Canal Trust, so I get to read their newsletters when visiting. They now own two eating/pub establishments where the profits go to the restoration. All part of the plan to provide a continuous revenue stream for long term support of the canal. I suppose the difference is that it isn't  BW/CaRT in charge. Just hope that CaRT don't take it in to their heads to buy a brewery with their organisational skills. 

Jen

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I'm not sure about ownership of the Wharf, but it has always been a successful pub, so if it is rented from CaRT, then I doubt if they do anything other than collect the rent. The moorings are operated by Stephen Goldsborough, but probably rented from CaRT.

13 hours ago, Laurie.Booth said:

It's not a pub, more like a club house serving beer and food. CRT rent out the building.

Are you confusing this with the Earlswood Motor Yacht Club? I think you will find the only CaRT influence on this site is that they rent out the moorings, both on line and the feeder arm.

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55 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

I'm not sure about ownership of the Wharf, but it has always been a successful pub, so if it is rented from CaRT, then I doubt if they do anything other than collect the rent. The moorings are operated by Stephen Goldsborough, but probably rented from CaRT.

Are you confusing this with the Earlswood Motor Yacht Club? I think you will find the only CaRT influence on this site is that they rent out the moorings, both on line and the feeder arm.

Perhaps the OP needs to clarify where they mean, I can't think of anywhere in Earlswood called the Wharf, the place at Lady Lane Wharf seems the nearest  match to me, but I would not describe it as a pub either.

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2 hours ago, john6767 said:

Perhaps the OP needs to clarify where they mean, I can't think of anywhere in Earlswood called the Wharf, the place at Lady Lane Wharf seems the nearest  match to me, but I would not describe it as a pub either.

Confusion with the Wharf Tavern, Hockley Heath perhaps?

However, that is owned by one of the Greene King pub companies.

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14 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Confusion with the Wharf Tavern, Hockley Heath perhaps?

However, that is owned by one of the Greene King pub companies.

Yes there is that one, but nothing canal side at Earlswood, the canal does not really go through Earlswood just near it.

edited to correct stupid mistake on my part!

Edited by john6767
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10 hours ago, Ex Brummie said:

I'm not sure about ownership of the Wharf, but it has always been a successful pub, so if it is rented from CaRT, then I doubt if they do anything other than collect the rent. The moorings are operated by Stephen Goldsborough, but probably rented from CaRT.

Are you confusing this with the Earlswood Motor Yacht Club? I think you will find the only CaRT influence on this site is that they rent out the moorings, both on line and the feeder arm.

CaRT own the club house and the moorings.

Granville Hyland rents it all from CaRT

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00714486/officers

http://ladylanewharf.co.uk/

PS

Who is Stephen Goldsborough?

Edited by Laurie.Booth
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8 hours ago, Laurie.Booth said:

 

Who is Stephen Goldsborough?

I was referring to the moorings at The Bluebell just down the cut from Earlswood. SG is the boatfitter at Knowle.

When the Lady Lane premises were E.M.Y.C., 30 years ago, I used to moor there. At  that time, the 'owners' always told me they owned the premises, and also built a very nice bungalow on site. It transpired that they only leased the mooring rights when one of the members who moored main line south of the feeder arm, was told he couldn't licence his boat as it was illegally moored. The ensuing 'negotations' resulted in the main line moorings along the embankment were leased to them with the condition that they developed them (deforestation etc)

The Club was a thriving social centre for boaters and locals for many years, but visits since show it has declined somewhat like many hostelries, canalside or otherwise.

  • Happy 1
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12 hours ago, Ex Brummie said:

The Club was a thriving social centre for boaters and locals for many years, but visits since show it has declined somewhat like many hostelries, canalside or otherwise.

I agree the club house has gone down hill, I think it is due to the general drop in the drinks trade.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/7/2018 at 15:25, john6767 said:

Perhaps the OP needs to clarify where they mean, I can't think of anywhere in Earlswood called the Wharf, the place at Lady Lane Wharf seems the nearest  match to me, but I would not describe it as a pub either.

Looks like Lady Lane Moorings are going under.

:(

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