Anchor

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Rather than risk needing to deploy an anchor in the deep and busy Thames tideway, a better way of mitigating the risk is to make the trip with at least one companion boat, able to breast up with you in the event of engine failure. 

Have you ever tried to attach to a broken down boat in a river with a reasonable flow.

I have.

A broken down 57 foot NB

Two other boats, (us) a 45 foot NB and another 57 foot NB

Broken down boat drifting and turning / spinning and about 300 yards from Cromwell Weir (the one where 10 soldiers drowned when their boat went over the weir), the broken down boat had deployed the anchor (15kg Danforth) and it had not set, but it stopped the spinning, but it was oscillating about 45 degrees either side of the anchor and had we got too close it could have 'hit-hard' -  it took both of the 'rescue boats' about 3 or 4 attempts to get near enough alongside and get a rope aboard, by this time it was 'brown trousers' as 2 'underpowered boats' and a 'dead boat' were within about 100 yards of the weir.

Eventually got a line on board, cut the anchor rope and we started to slowly make way away from the weir.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[alan_fincher]

22 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Rather than risk needing to deploy an anchor in the deep and busy Thames tideway, a better way of mitigating the risk is to make the trip with at least one companion boat, able to breast up with you in the event of engine failure. 

I don't know to what extent it is possible to persuade the Limehouse lock keepers to send you through in a way that allows this.

The last time we did it (some time ago). we thought 3 narrow boats would leave Limehouse together, but a large cruiser pushed into the lock ahead of us.

As a consequence we were then locked through with no other narrow boats, those we had been with being long since gone.

Had anything gone wrong on the tideway, other than having the radio, we would have been very much alone.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I don't know to what extent it is possible to persuade the Limehouse lock keepers to send you through in a way that allows this.

The last time we did it (some time ago). we thought 3 narrow boats would leave Limehouse together, but a large cruiser pushed into the lock ahead of us.

As a consequence we were then locked through with no other narrow boats, those we had been with being long since gone.

Had anything gone wrong on the tideway, other than having the radio, we would have been very much alone.

 

The miserable bar stewards! They could have had hours of fun hanging about outside Limehouse dodging those 30mph Clipper catter meringues waiting for you!

[MtB]

27 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Have you ever tried to attach to a broken down boat in a river with a reasonable flow.

 

No I haven't. I was using my imagination. 

 

28 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

the broken down boat had deployed the anchor (15kg Danforth) and it had not set, but it stopped the spinning, but it was oscillating about 45 degrees either side of the anchor and had we got too close it could have 'hit-hard' -  it took both of the 'rescue boats' about 3 or 4 attempts to get near enough alongside and get a rope aboard, by this time it was 'brown trousers' as 2 'underpowered boats' and a 'dead boat' were within about 100 yards of the weir.

Eventually got a line on board, cut the anchor rope and we started to slowly make way away from the weir.

 

Sobering. 

The lesson I take from this is an anchor cannot be trusted to save you, while companion boats have a better chance but only if they are skilled boatmen. 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

No I haven't. I was using my imagination. 

 

 

Sobering. 

The lesson I take from this is an anchor cannot be trusted to save you, while companion boats have a better chance but only if they are skilled boatmen. 

 

I would suggest that your understanding of the lesson is flawed, a correct interpretation would be :

1) A correctly sized, designed  and deployed anchor will do its intended job.

2) An anchor purchased for convenience of storage, undersize and of an unsuitable design, with incorrect chain/warp will (possibly) reduce your speed but will NOT do its intended job.

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

1) A correctly sized, designed  and deployed anchor will do its intended job.

 

An oxymoron in my experience. A 'correctly sized' anchor is usually too heavy for one person to deploy in a hurry when they need it. 

What IS the "correctly sized, designed" anchor for say a 35 tonne 60ft x 10ft wide beam narrowboat, out of interest? 

[Bricksh]

48 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

That rather depends upon when you are on the tideway. I know CaRT lock hours ensure one would leave Limehouse when the trip boats were about but some years ago and hopefully this year we will leave Teddington in the very early morning (I hope its still manned 24 hours) and we will be off the tideway before too much commercial traffic gets going. Certainly the tidal Trent produced a larger wake from a passing boat that the tideway did.

Yes Teddington is still manned 24hrs and leaving early am does give a much quieter and smoother run down (this is always our preferred option). With an early morning set off you will also avoid the fast ribs, which are a pain if they are using you as a target to thrill their passengers.

Limehouse lock keepers will come in outside of normal hours if requested but still restricted to 06:00 and latest 22:00ish. Also worth thinking about is leaving Limehouse on a Sunday am, as it means no clippers going back and forth past Westminster bridge.

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

What IS the "correctly sized, designed" anchor for say a 35 tonne 60ft x 10ft wide beam narrowboat, out of interest? 

I do not have the correct software to answer that question and would suggest that for a 'legally binding' answer the manufacturers be consulted.

However, I would 'SUGGEST' that either of the following (correctly deployed with 3x scope of chain, or 5x-7x scope with Chain & rope, of which an absolute minimum of 2 metres of chain should be used for every 8 metres of water depth) would be suitable.

Both Anchors can be stored flat - as per the Danforth then assembled and kept on the bow for the duration of the period needed.

 

1) 30Kg Mantus

2) 15Kg Fortress

 

I am sure you would surprise yourself at the weight you could lift if it was necessary - The Fortress is much less than a 'bag of coal' for those 'strength challenged' boaters.

The downside to both of those anchors is cost. I purchased the Mantus 30kg last year and it was generally priced around £800-£900 but I found a Chandlers on Orkney who was prepared to sell one for £600 including shipping.

The Fortress is a little over £1000

In US Navy testing the 70lb Fortress gave the same performance as a 225lb Danforth, and a 400lb 'Navy' anchors

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[alan_fincher]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The miserable bar stewards! They could have had hours of fun hanging about outside Limehouse dodging those 30mph Clipper catter meringues waiting for you!

I'm not sure you realistically could hang about outside Limehouse in a Nmarrow boat even should you feel so inclined.

Each time we have done it we have found the current to be about as fast as the top speed of the boat with no current, so I rather suspect if you turned into the current and tried to stay in one place you would find it very hard indeed, and might possibly overheat the engine in the attempt.

(The Clippers, of course, are not supposed to be doing 30MMP, but armed police in RIBs or the inshore lifeboats are a very different prospect, and can be most intimidating)

[larryjc]

Just to put a metaphorical oar in.  If I was buying one I would definitely go for the Fortress.  They are made of aluminium so far lighter than a steel alternative.  They can be taken apart to be stowed in  a small place and have a lifetime guarantee.  I've used them in the sallty stuff and their holding power is quite amazing for their size.  I had a tiny FX7 on my 42 footer as a stern anchor and kedge but also used on some occasions as a main (weedy bottom where it tends to grip where others don't).  Bearing in mind they are for an emergency stop not holding in a sustained force 8 with the tide changing every 6 hours I would happily use something like an FX23 (£400 on eEbay) for my 57 foot boat.

[LadyG]

Regarding the  weight of the anchor,, presumably you would have it ready to be deployed [defo NOT THROWN IN], so this would be done in advance. One would not be assembling and preparing the tackle after the engine cuts out, so the actual weight is not quite as critical as it might first appear. Also adrenaline will kick in when required ............ as demonstrated when I once lifted a heavy door in an emergency, it took two fit men to put it back!

Nevertheless a modern anchor design should prove more efficient and easier to handle.

I would not be attaching an anchor warp to fittings designed to fail, this would result in flying shrapnel, ridiculous idea.

Edited January 3, 2018 by LadyG

[MtB]

So what is the difference between deploying, and throwing it in? 

Need to make sure I do it right...!  

[LadyG]

28 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

So what is the difference between deploying, and throwing it in? 

Need to make sure I do it right...!  

If you don't know by now, you'll never know Mike

Put it this way, I don't ever recall throwing any anchor when sailing in a 70 foot yacht, it took planning, and co-ordination, no way could anyone just lift and throw  50Kg anchor and chain over the side. Even a dinghy anchor with chain or warp attached should not be chucked in willy nilly. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by LadyG

[Iain_S]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

So what is the difference between deploying, and throwing it in? 

Need to make sure I do it right...!  

The difference between the anchor tangling with the bottom (good) and with the chain (bad).

In practice, it's usually a lot easier to lower the anchor, followed by chain, hand over hand and under control, rather than chuck everything over the side. The latter will result in either total failure as the anchor fankles up in the chain, and your highly expensive mud weight bounces along the bottom, or a sudden snatch when the anchor bites and comes to the end of the chain plus warp, and something breaks. (another total failure )

[MtB]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

If you don't know by now, you'll never know Mike

Put it this way, I don't ever recall throwing any anchor when sailing in a 70 foot yacht, it took planning, and co-ordination, no way could anyone just lift and throw  50Kg anchor and chain over the side. Even a dinghy anchor with chain or warp attached should not be chucked in willy nilly. 

 

What?

Not even when you're INCHES from the massive weir that will be right next to your boat every time the engine breaks down on a river????!!!!!!!

I'm pretty sure about the only thing I could do to a 50kg anchor is lever it over the side before I get killed to death by the weir. 

I certainly won't be googling for the difference between 'deploying' it and lobbing it in in a massive hurry.

[LadyG]

13 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

I certainly won't be googling for the difference between 'deploying' it and lobbing it in in a massive hurry.

That's why forward thinking helps.

Edited January 3, 2018 by LadyG

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

That's why forward thinking helps.

 

Agreed. 

My forward thinking would revolve around making sure the engine didn't stop.

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Agreed. 

My forward thinking would revolve around making sure the engine didn't stop.

And the prop didn't pick up a dead body, or, get a rope wrapped around it, or, or, or ........

[howardang]

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

That's why forward thinking helps.

Together with practise and a knowledge of basic seamanship. As a nation I thought we all had salt water in our veins but perhaps not?

 

Howard

[Naughty Cal]

9 hours ago, howardang said:

Together with practise and a knowledge of basic seamanship. As a nation I thought we all had salt water in our veins but perhaps not?

 

Howard

Judging by some peoples attitudes it would seem that it has been diluted by too much in breeding 

[WotEver]

9 hours ago, howardang said:

As a nation I thought we all had salt water in our veins but perhaps not?

Must be true. Otherwise why would they connect you up to a saline drip in hospital?