Replacement tiller

[gazmo]

Hello there.  When I set off this morning I'd gone a few yards when the tiller went wobbly and fell into the cut leaving me adrift and watching my tiller and handle settle into the silt on the wrong side of the canal.  The bolt thread had worked loose and rusted and was much worse than I'd realised.  I've managed to moor up almost opposite the spot it sank into and I've been promised by a few locals a helping hand to try to fish it out.  But if I can't find it, would anyone know the best place to buy a replacement tiller and how much I'd expect to pay?  I'm happy to have a mooch around some boatyards if second-hand is the best option as I'll need a full repaint in the spring and have much else to do in the meantime. 

Any help gratefully received.  I'm also looking for a mobile welder in the Brum area to do a few small repair jobs such as hinge replacement etc if anyone has any recommendations. 

[X Alan W]

When you say "Tiller " do you mean the "S" shaped bar with a tube you hold to steer? or do you mean the rudder as well ? in either case it would have been fashioned to suit the boat so would if you can't recover the original from the cut have to be custom  made as the sizes & methods of mounting are very varied if the boat is a production model by a builder still trading they could possibly have drawings/details of sizes/dimensions to be be able to make you a replacement & you could get it to the boat & fit I think your best bet was to get someone with Scuba gear to try to recover the original   As to cost how long is a piece of string Good Luck.

[MtB]

I too think no matter how much effort it takes to find the sunken tiller, it will be less than getting a new one made. 

After all you KNOW it’s there!

[Jen-in-Wellies]

What he said. Assuming this is a narrowboat with a swan neck tiller, then they are typically fabricated by the builder to suit the boat design and vary from yard to yard. There are off the shelf ones around, but no way of knowing if yours is one. The dimensions and fixing arrangements are important for steering comfort and not grazing your knuckles on the cabin.

On the plus side, it is a big heavy lump of steel, so should be easy to find and recover. It will have sunk straight down without drifting away, so if you know where it went in, that is where it will be. No idea where you are, but presumably a reasonably shallow canal. A magnet or grappling hook should recover it. If there are boaters helping you out, then someone will have something suitable. Worse case, borrow a pair of waders if the water isn't too deep.

Jen

[dor]

Assuming you mean the swan neck, it should be easy to locate with a seasearcher-type magnet, even if it is not strong enough to lift it.  Once located it is a case of jumping in, grab it quick and jump out - straight into a hot shower!

[bizzard]

A Sea Searcher would probably lift one end of it up enough to enable you to reach down a little way and grab it.

[MtB]

22 minutes ago, dor said:

Assuming you mean the swan neck, it should be easy to locate with a seasearcher-type magnet,

 

I rather disagree. A Swan neck will weigh probably 15 to 25 kg and will have settled down through the silt and leaf mould until it got to the puddling. A sea searcher on a rope won’t get down that far. Far better to rake through the silt with the hook on the end of a nice long cabin shaft. Where to get a decent sized cabin shaft is a whole nother matter. Those sold in chandleries are pathetically short! 

Making a nice long cabin shaft will STILL be a whole lot less effort than making a new Swan neck and tiller. Way cheaper too. 

[Sea Dog]

54 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I too think no matter how much effort it takes to find the sunken tiller, it will be less than getting a new one made. 

After all you KNOW it’s there!

I agree: a wet suit is much more easily sourced and a lot cheaper than a new tiller/rudder assembly. Plus, thereafter, you'll be equipped to take up Bog Snorkeling... and you'll already be a dab hand!

 

[MtB]

On reflection a better tool for the job than a cabin shaft would be a keb. Collar the next CRT bod you see, they usually have one in the van. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

8 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

On reflection a better tool for the job than a cabin shaft would be a keb. Collar the next CRT bod you see, they usually have one in the van. 

A keb looks like this, if you haven't come across one before. CaRT blue shirts use them for raking out weed and debris from behind lock gates amongst other things.

Jen

[MtB]

Copied from Jen's link:

 

The kebs carried by the CRT bods have far longer handles, about 10 or 12 ft long I'd say, so more suitable for raking through a canal bed from the bank.

[howardang]

22 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

On reflection a better tool for the job than a cabin shaft would be a keb. Collar the next CRT bod you see, they usually have one in the van. 

Another vote for a keb; another thing to try would be a folding grapnel,  sold by many chandlers as a folding anchor, and carried by many boats. Ask a passing boater for a lend! 

Howard

 

[philjw]

You might just find a keb at a local lock.

[David Schweizer]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

On reflection a better tool for the job than a cabin shaft would be a keb. Collar the next CRT bod you see, they usually have one in the van. 

I gave mine io a member on here only last week, but if you cannot access a Keb, a long handled manure drag might do the trick, (available from agricultural merchants) :- http://www.faithfulltools.com/p/FAIMANDRAG/Manure-Drag-Solid-Socket-4-Prong

 

[Dr Bob]

Whereabouts on the network are you? There maybe someone on here who is nearby and who can help. I have a semi-dry wetsuit that would give you ten mins in the water before you turn too blue. Not sure the scuba gear would help though. Not really conducive to 2mm visibility.

[bizzard]

Smother yourself completely with goose grease, or stern tube grease and just jump in after it.

[mrsmelly]

10 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Smother yourself completely with goose grease, or stern tube grease and just jump in after it.

Captain Webb used Porpoise oil apparently.

[Sea Dog]

14 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Captain Webb used Porpoise oil apparently.

Accidentally or....

[Dr Bob]

I've got a duck if anyone is interested.

[David Schweizer]

One tip about lookng for things lying on the bottom of the canal in murky water. Get a length of 4" air duct tubing, and glue/tape a piece of clear plastic over one end, making sure it is watertight. Push the sealed end under the water and look down it, you should be able to see the bottom.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

I've got a duck if anyone is interested.

 

Duck off!

[NickF]

Open the paddles on the next lock down when no one is looking! ... Then walk across the canal bed and pick it up before opening the paddles on the lock above! ... sorted!

[X Alan W]

6 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Copied from Jen's link:

 

The kebs carried by the CRT bods have far longer handles, about 10 or 12 ft long I'd say, so more suitable for raking through a canal bed from the bank.

That's a farmers manure rake  a PROPER KEB has a handle at least 2 times as long if not longer & larger diameter  & the tines are slightly wider & more like flat strip metal rather than the square section the one in the photo appear to be, also on the waterway Kebs of yesteryear the bend in the tines was more than 90 degrees i would hazard a guess that being the crap you caught was less likely to slip off the tines  the BW lengths guys used to "Tune the tine bend depending on what they were fishing for, the Atherstone top lock keeper had one the tines were bent up to around 45 degrees if the thing was stood vertical on it's head he could poke it down between lock wall & gate in a nearly fully open position he used to open the ground paddle a tiny bit & hook out the rubbish coming in through the culvet/paddle the gate stopping/slowing it enough to allow him to hook it out before he had to chase it about in the lock it was the only keb i've seen with a knob on the handle end like some of the long boat shafts had

[Jen-in-Wellies]

7 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

That's a farmers manure rake  a PROPER KEB has a handle at least 2 times as long if not longer & larger diameter  & the tines are slightly wider & more like flat strip metal rather than the square section the one in the photo appear to be, also on the waterway Kebs of yesteryear the bend in the tines was more than 90 degrees i would hazard a guess that being the crap you caught was less likely to slip off the tines  the BW lengths guys used to "Tune the tine bend depending on what they were fishing for, the Atherstone top lock keeper had one the tines were bent up to around 45 degrees if the thing was stood vertical on it's head he could poke it down between lock wall & gate in a nearly fully open position he used to open the ground paddle a tiny bit & hook out the rubbish coming in through the culvet/paddle the gate stopping/slowing it enough to allow him to hook it out before he had to chase it about in the lock it was the only keb i've seen with a knob on the handle end like some of the long boat shafts had

Closest thing I could find with a google image search. Near enough to give the original poster an idea what was being talked about. Keb seems to be a UK canals only word as far as I can make out.

Jen

[X Alan W]

13 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Closest thing I could find with a google image search. Near enough to give the original poster an idea what was being talked about. Keb seems to be a UK canals only word as far as I can make out.

Jen

As far as I'm a ware a keb is a specialized tool that seems to be an  inland water ways only usage