Honda eu20i starting problems

[lesrollins]

I have an honda EU20I which I converted to run on gas over 12 months ago it's always started and ran fine, but recently it as started after a few pulls runs for a while and then cuts out it might do this 2 or 3 times and then it runs without any problems. Plenty of gas, new plug, new oil, filters clean all gas connections tight.  Anyone else had the same problem or got any ideas.

[Wrinkley]

I had very much the same with my gas converted eu20i.  After changing the oil once it ran very erratic on initial start up, some times stopping.   I just topped the oil up even though I had filled it to the level (top of the filler hole).  Did this be leaning the geni back a little put small amount of oil in.  Really was a small amount and all was fine. Got to be worth a try as it fixed mine.

 

Graham

[BWM]

2 hours ago, lesrollins said:

I have an honda EU20I which I converted to run on gas over 12 months ago it's always started and ran fine, but recently it as started after a few pulls runs for a while and then cuts out it might do this 2 or 3 times and then it runs without any problems. Plenty of gas, new plug, new oil, filters clean all gas connections tight.  Anyone else had the same problem or got any ideas.

It may be worth trying the old spark plug, I recently bought a new one and had to replace the plug immediately, due to similar problems. 

[lesrollins]

It was doing the same with the old plug. Once running it runs great, just developed the start up niggle. Oil is at the bottom neck of the filler but I'll top it up by tilting genny back when I get home 

[Bricksh]

I've had a few gas converted cars and they all started on petrol and changed over to gas as the engine warmed up a little. If I tried to start straight from gas they all ran rough until they warmed up a little. Can you start on petrol and then change over?

Edited December 23, 2017 by Bricksh
missed word

[lesrollins]

This is similar to the one I have fitted but unfortunately it doesn't allow to run on both it's either one or the other. I was going to try running it on fuel but not sure wether I'll have to take the spacer out again.

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, Bricksh said:

I've had a few gas converted cars and they all started on petrol and changed over to gas as the engine warmed up a little. If I tried to start straight from gas they all ran rough until they warmed up a little. Can you start on petrol and then change over?

I was thinking along similar lines – when I had a gas powered car it was recommended to  run  ’every now and again’ on petrol (to add a bit of lubrication?).

That all, however, negates the benefit of having an LPG generator (if you still need to store petrol on board).

[Richard10002]

3 hours ago, lesrollins said:

I have an honda EU20I which I converted to run on gas over 12 months ago it's always started and ran fine, but recently it as started after a few pulls runs for a while and then cuts out it might do this 2 or 3 times and then it runs without any problems. Plenty of gas, new plug, new oil, filters clean all gas connections tight.  Anyone else had the same problem or got any ideas.

I had a similar problem a while ago. Changed everything I could for new.... oil, plug, filter.

In the end I asked Pete the Honda Expert mentioned here from time to time and he said that, after time, the EU20i needs the oil to be full to overflowing in order to satisfy the sensor. I’ve been keeping it well topped up for about a year, and it starts as well as ever. I actually lean it slightly away from me for the last bit, (but not too much).

Worth a try for a bit of oil?

 

ETA: which is merely a repeat of post #2, but hopefully reassuring if 3 of us are suggesting it

Edited December 23, 2017 by Richard10002

[WotEver]

Just now, Richard10002 said:

I had a similar problem a while ago. Changed everything I could for new.... oil, plug, filter.

In the end I asked Pete the Honda Expert mentioned here from time to time and he said that, after time, the EU20i needs the oil to be full to overflowing in order to satisfy the sensor. I’ve been keeping it well topped up for about a year, and it starts as well as ever. I actually lean it slightly away from me for the last bit, (but not too much).

Worth a try for a bit of oil?

I came across this problem with a brand new Clarke generator. Full to the mark but wouldn’t start. A phone call to head office suggested a bit more oil and it worked a treat. 

[Wrinkley]

When my eu20i was on petrol it started first pull every time, now its on gas it starts third pull ever third pull and has done for the last six years. Just have to fill (just over) it with oil at service time.  Thats the kiss of death if there ever was one!

[nb Innisfree]

Could be a faulty oil sensor switch, bypass it test.  

[Richard10002]

40 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

Could be a faulty oil sensor switch, bypass it test.  

How does someone with not much knowledge and diy skill do that?

[lesrollins]

Thanks I'll top it up with oil it's at the bottom of the neck at the moment. So I'll tip it back and put some more in and try it

[nb Innisfree]

1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

How does someone with not much knowledge and diy skill do that?

Get an expert to fix it instead of asking on a forum? 

[BWM]

I wonder if it's due to the dry running on gas that has affected the valves, as others have mentioned above perhaps a run on petrol would lubricate/ deposit the valves and their seats? 

[croftie]

18 minutes ago, BWM said:

I wonder if it's due to the dry running on gas that has affected the valves, as others have mentioned above perhaps a run on petrol would lubricate/ deposit the valves and their seats? 

Back in the 70's we used to look after a number of taxi's running on gas and they suffered from valve guide wear and seat recession

[Jess--]

47 minutes ago, croftie said:

Back in the 70's we used to look after a number of taxi's running on gas and they suffered from valve guide wear and seat recession

I think it's to do with a slower burn on gas compared with petrol, usually with petrol it's burnt out (or near enough) when the exhaust valve opens, on lpg it's still burning, this slowly kills valve stems and seats (plugs usually last half their usual life on gas)

in general the newer the engine (and lighter material the head is made from) the more likely the problem.

the old rover engines (based on the 3.5 v8 lump) very very rarely had any problems with many years (decades) on gas, the engines in petrol merc sprinters were infamous for failing on gas after a year or two

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

I think it's to do with a slower burn on gas compared with petrol, usually with petrol it's burnt out (or near enough) when the exhaust valve opens, on lpg it's still burning, this slowly kills valve stems and seats (plugs usually last half their usual life on gas)

in general the newer the engine (and lighter material the head is made from) the more likely the problem.

the old rover engines (based on the 3.5 v8 lump) very very rarely had any problems with many years (decades) on gas, the engines in petrol merc sprinters were infamous for failing on gas after a year or two

 

So, not a resounding vote of confidence for the longevity of the lightweight engined LPG generator.

[Wrinkley]

Les, love to know how you get on after topping the oil up.

Graham

(still running fine after six years, not the same hours as a taxi but I'd convert again!)

[Jess--]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

So, not a resounding vote of confidence for the longevity of the lightweight engined LPG generator.

I suspect that the engine will fail a few years sooner than it would on petrol, but for the expected lifetime / possibly reduced fuel costs / safer onboard storage etc I wouldn't worry about it.

on engines where the reduced lifespan would be an issue you can add an extra system (flashlube is a well known version) that puts a lubricating oil in with the gas to prevent valve damage (not sure on exactly how it works... but it seems to), the downside is that this means increased running costs (still cheaper than petrol) and an extra system to go wrong or leak

[lesrollins]

Thanks Wrinkley I'll let you know. I'll stick to gas because it's cheaper for me a 13kg bottle is about 15 quid and I usually get about 35ish hours out of it

[lesrollins]

Well thank you all. I tilted the genny slightly back and over filled with oil slightly the genny now runs without stopping. Just curious why it only works slightly over filled though

[Wrinkley]

Good to know.  Thanks for the update.

[blackrose]

On ‎23‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 09:34, Wrinkley said:

When my eu20i was on petrol it started first pull every time, now its on gas it starts third pull ever third pull and has done for the last six years. Just have to fill (just over) it with oil at service time.  Thats the kiss of death if there ever was one!

I heard that once they are converted to gas they're harder to start, but some people with conversions deny it. This thread seems to confirm it.

I once contacted Honda UK and spoke to someone in their technical dept about converting a generator to gas. They told me it would probably run a bit hotter and would need more frequent servicing, but if any fault was found to have originated from a gas conversion it would invalidate their 5 year warranty. To me a long warranty is simply an indication of quality because 5 year warranties on new generators are generally invalidated unless you take them to a dealer for annual servicing. Perhaps if you service it yourself according to their schedule and document what you've done the 5 year warranty stands, I'm not sure.

[Richard10002]

57 minutes ago, lesrollins said:

Well thank you all. I tilted the genny slightly back and over filled with oil slightly the genny now runs without stopping. Just curious why it only works slightly over filled though

Presumably something to do with making sure the sensor sees the oil?

In which case it’s actually poor design, which is unusual for Honda.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Richard10002