INFRA RED UNDERFLOOR HEATING

[MtB]

1 hour ago, mross said:

Butane⁶ 155.92 Litre 21.74 (90%) 7.97 0.242 19.56
Propane⁷ 74.24 Litre 11.67 (90%) 7.07 0.242 10.50

 

I'm not sure these two prices can be right can they? Calor butane is usually much the same price as Calor propane, I thought.

[Dr Bob]

7 minutes ago, mross said:

I quoted the average price from the UK's six largest suppliers!  Good for you if you get it cheaper.  Please come back with the price your marina is charging plus VAT.

You were right, here's a snippit from my last 6 month bill.

                                              p/unit          £       VAT   VAT p

76.00 Units Used                      0.13   0.00  9.88  5.00    0.49
76.00 Electricity Service Charge 0.04   0.00  3.04  20.00   0.61

13p a unit but hadnt realised there was an additional 4p service charge - then 5% VAT on top.

[mross]

Yes, to be fair we need to include standing charges when comparing energy prices.  

[mross]

17 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'm not sure these two prices can be right can they? Calor butane is usually much the same price as Calor propane, I thought.

Can you look at the link that I posted; it quotes the sources of the info and was updated in November this year.

[Tony Brooks]

I have been through the November, December & January 18 editions of the magazine and a far as I can see there was no printed advatorial or other information about this product published. It does however appear on the magazine's website.

[WotEver]

9 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I have been through the November, December & January 18 editions of the magazine and a far as I can see there was no printed advatorial or other information about this product published. It does however appear on the magazine's website.

Have you spoken to the publishers, Tony? Do they give a stuff?

[mross]

I did send a complaint to the ASA.  Particularly their claim that it is more 'cost'effective' than any other heating method.

If you ran a 2kW electric heater and it never reached the temperature you wanted, it would cost £8.60 each day!  (Assuming your electricity costs the national average.  Marinas have to charge what they pay, but can add a service charge, so yours might be a bit more.

Edited December 13, 2017 by mross

[Horatio Sprague]

Since I started this thread after reading the article in Canal Boat online, I thought the only way to deal with this was to send Funky Heat a plan of my proposed boat and see what specification they come up with. It appears to be a free service, and will paste any reply received on this thread. The article was published on October 31, but as someone else has said, it may only appear online and not in the magazine (I don't have that).

http://www.canalboat.co.uk/canal-boats/maintenance/heating-your-narrowboat-efficiently-and-comfortably-1-5240436

[WotEver]

The only way to deal with this?

Surely the only way to deal with this, other than having a good laugh at their claims, would be to complain to the ASA?

[mross]

17 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'm not sure these two prices can be right can they? Calor butane is usually much the same price as Calor propane, I thought.

I think you are correct unless they are going on bulk deliveries?  I have emailed the source for an explanation.  It seems that 13kg of butane or propane is about £30.  So that's about £2.30 per kg.  Both have energy densities close to 13.6 kWh/kg.  So the correct figures for cost are around 17p/kWh.

[mross]

I found another comparison.  Propane and Butane prices vary a lot with cylinder size.

https://www.confusedaboutenergy.co.uk/index.php/domestic-fuels/fuel-prices

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, mross said:

It seems that 13kg of butane or propane is about £30

Butane is a pound or so cheaper than Propane, AND, Butane is a 15g bottle whilst Propane is only 13kg, so, Butane is actually quite a bit less than Propane.

[mross]

38 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Butane is a pound or so cheaper than Propane, AND, Butane is a 15g bottle whilst Propane is only 13kg, so, Butane is actually quite a bit less than Propane.

See my previous post.  Propane is cheaper per kWh in 13kg than butane in 15kg cylinders.  Data comes from the DoE.  And is from March 2017. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by mross

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, mross said:

See my previous post.  Propane is cheaper per kWh in 13kg than butane in 15kg cylinders.  Data comes from the DoE.  And is from March 2017. 

I guess it depends on what price you are paying for your cylinders.

Our local Calor dealer is £26 for 15kg Butane, £27 for 13kg Propane and £65 for 47kg Propane (we use all 3 variants)

We also have a bulk tank that is only refilled once per year and costs 'pennies' per litre.

[mrsmelly]

My first boat used Butane gas...........its crap when temperature gets well below freezing. Propane works better in cold weather. Just sayin like but its a noticeable difference I remember how much better propane was/is on my subsequent boats.

[mross]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

My first boat used Butane gas...........its crap when temperature gets well below freezing. Propane works better in cold weather. Just sayin like but its a noticeable difference I remember how much better propane was/is on my subsequent boats.

Yes, butane stops boiling at -2C.

[Tony Brooks]

3 hours ago, WotEver said:

Have you spoken to the publishers, Tony? Do they give a stuff?

I have emailed the editor and made my position clear.

A while ago the lot who advertise "add to the oil engine reconditioner" and who have a "face" to promote it in motoring magazines must have wanted to do something similar (I assume) so the editor asked my opinion. I gave him my honest opinion and that was the last I heard about it.

[roland elsdon]

On 12 December 2017 at 23:45, RLWP said:

Your sums are too simplistic then. You can count the waste heat from the inverters in the overall heating for the boat

That's why it's in the back cabin I was going to put the kettle on it....don't know why you are 'dissin my idea' I was going to ask you to engineer the 9 additional alternator brackets for the hb2

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, roland elsdon said:

That's why it's in the back cabin I was going to put the kettle on it....don't know why you are 'dissin my idea' I was going to ask you to engineer the 9 additional alternator brackets for the hb2

plus the supply and fit of the jockey wheels for the new ultra high duty serpentine belt

[RLWP]

1 hour ago, roland elsdon said:

That's why it's in the back cabin I was going to put the kettle on it....don't know why you are 'dissin my idea' I was going to ask you to engineer the 9 additional alternator brackets for the hb2

 

23 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

plus the supply and fit of the jockey wheels for the new ultra high duty serpentine belt

Now you are talking! Good choice too, the HB2 being faster than the HA

I suggest a line shaft in the cabin roof with each alternator having it's own fast and loose pulleys so you can cut them in and out as required

Richard

[roland elsdon]

Good plan love the idea of a line shaft. I will strip out the extension cabin and arrange steel work for an equal length cabin to put the heating in, as the current cabin will become a hazardous area for the cat, who investigates squeaking noises and has a long tail. As there is now an additional area may need more heating and belts.

as an aside and I'm sure they are wrong 'friends' have said this may be a solution looking for a problem and I could simply put in a diesel stove but I understand that is a complex process

[WotEver]

I thought I’d resurrect this thread to inform y’all that the ASA agree that the Funkyheat ad was both misleading and unsubstantiated.  (They didn’t want to use the word I used)  

They won’t be allowed to run it again. 

[Dr Bob]

......aw, I was just about to buy one!

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

......aw, I was just about to buy one!

Oh you still can, don’t let me stop you

You just won’t see that advert again. 

[mross]

Thanks.  I also complained to ASA and heard from them recently.  I did some more reading and found that IR heaters are quite successful in high-ceiling warehouses but people still need to get the air temp up to 21C or so to be comfortable.  Somewhere in their ads they say the panel heaters operate at a surface temperature of 22 to 24C.  So they can't radiate any heat to a human body at 37C !!!  They are just convectors.