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Puzzling Alternator bulb question?


Sunnydays

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13 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The resistor needs to be in parallel with the LED, so behind the panel is probably the best place. As Watever says it will need to be a high power one and they are quite big and chunky. I fitted one on a friends boat when he found his new LED panel light stopped the alternator working.

Jen

The resistor would still be in parallel if mounted in the engine bay, easily accessed and make future fault finding easy, should something happen to the cables to the panel the alternator will still charge.

It will also make it very visible to any future mecanic replacing the alternator.

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4 hours ago, Sir Nibble said:

For lots of alternators the lamp is switched by the regulator and plays no part in excitation.

Yes agreed, but the op's didn't until he connected a 2w bulb. He thinks his new panel has an LED warning light. Barrus may have got it wrong in supplying a new panel with an LED warning light that is not going to excite an older alternator.

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1 hour ago, forsberg said:

The resistor would still be in parallel if mounted in the engine bay, easily accessed and make future fault finding easy, should something happen to the cables to the panel the alternator will still charge.

It will also make it very visible to any future mecanic replacing the alternator.

Not necessarily that easy. There may not be switched engine battery 12v at the engine. I think some looms have it for use with an “energise to run” stop solenoid but I doubt all do. The resistor has to be wired between switched engine power and the alternator, it is much easier to do behind the panel and less likely to get damaged than if it’s in the engine bay.

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7 hours ago, Flyboy said:

Yes agreed, but the op's didn't until he connected a 2w bulb. He thinks his new panel has an LED warning light. Barrus may have got it wrong in supplying a new panel with an LED warning light that is not going to excite an older alternator.

Yep....confirrmed. Barrus fit LED warning lights to their latest panels. My starter battery alternator is is around 10 years old and unlikely to work with the LED. Therefore I am going to exchange the LED lamp with the 2W  filament type. (See pic) It won't match the others and I'll have to enlarge the hole from 8 to 13mm which is shame with a brand new item... but at least it will sort the problem. Thanks all for your input. 

20171212_145741_resized.jpg

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31 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

If you don't want to spoil your new panel, just put the 2W bulb inside the panel in parallel with the LED.  It will still do it's job even if you can't see it and the LED will still give you any warnings required.

Or use a resistor...

There’s a hole in my bucket...

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14 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

As an aside, why is there no 'heat' position on the key?  Need glow plugs in this weather.

Maybe it’s a timer thing? Turn to ‘On’, the glow plug light comes on, after a while it goes off, turn to ‘Start’?

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8 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

I think all diesels have glow plugs or similar for cold weather starting.  Maybe there is a push button at the top of the panel out of shot in this photo???

I hand-started an 8HP diesel today, temperature hovering around 0degrees C. No heater plug or other device fitted. Started first go on the handle. The engine lives outside all year round. It's a  50year old air cooled Lister.

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17 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

I think all diesels have glow plugs or similar for cold weather starting.  Maybe there is a push button at the top of the panel out of shot in this photo???

No they don't, my Barrus Shire 45 doesn't and will start instantly in even the lowest temperatures. Of course it's a proper direct injection engine.

Edited by Flyboy
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11 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Mmm not sure about that, will have to

go ogle

Just had a look at the Barus web site and the start procedure is turn key to 'on' and the the glow plug light will come on automatically and when it goes out then crank the engine to start.  More clever electronics to go wrong.

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6 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Just had a look at the Barus web site and the start procedure is turn key to 'on' and the the glow plug light will come on automatically and when it goes out then crank the engine to start.  More clever electronics to go wrong.

Only on the very latest ones. Mine is 10 years old and you just turn the key and fires up instantly. The injection pump however does does have some sort of mechanical cold start device which increases the fuel and advances the injection timing slightly. This only operates at below 0 degrees C.

Edited by Flyboy
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7 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Just had a look at the Barus web site and the start procedure is turn key to 'on' and the the glow plug light will come on automatically and when it goes out then crank the engine to start.  More clever electronics to go wrong.

Yep ,it is a Relay which powers up for 5-8 seconds or so ,easy and cheap to Source so best to carry a spare.

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55 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

Yep ,it is a Relay which powers up for 5-8 seconds or so ,easy and cheap to Source so best to carry a spare.

Only on the very latest Barrus engines.

Edited by Flyboy
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8 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

I think all diesels have glow plugs or similar for cold weather starting.  Maybe there is a push button at the top of the panel out of shot in this photo???

There are two basic types of the diesel engines we use. Direct injection and indirect injection.  Direct injection engines inject straight into the cylinder where indirect injection inject into a spherical pre-combustion chambers formed in the cylinder heads. This produces a much cleaner burn on idle and low speed but increases fuel consumption at high speed and makes scold starting more difficult so the vast majority, but not all, indirect injection engines use glow plugs to aid cold starting. So as far as this canal forum is concerned the old rule glow plugs = indirect injection, no glow plugs- direct injection holds good. Direct injection or very similar engines are likely to be all the so called traditional engines, all the air cooled Listser, some Barrus Shire, older Penta, and Bukh.

Just to muddy the waters for some years direct injected automotive engines have been fitted with glow plugs AND the glow plugs stay on at reduced power for a while while running. This is more to do with reducing emissions when cold and noise than helping cold starting. My VW 3 pot starts without heat and quickly in very cold weather but does not half run rough for a short while.

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2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Perhaps the panel is wrong for the engine. 

Even if it was, it doesn’t answer Chewy’s question...

11 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

As an aside, why is there no 'heat' position on the key?

Which has since been definitively answered :)

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50 minutes ago, WotEver said:

So why does it have a glow plug indicator on the panel?

Simply because the panel the OP bought is for the later post 2010 Barrus engines. The OP has a 10 year old engine which does not have glow plugs and has a different panel.

Ollder  Barrus engines :-      https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/50989992/shire-owners-manual-06-build-33354045-50-pdf-ep-barrus

Post 2010 Barrus engines :- https://www.barrus.co.uk/divisions/marine/diesel/shire/downloads/shire-manuals/

Edited by Flyboy
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1 minute ago, Flyboy said:

Simply because the panel the OP bought is for the later post 2010 Barrus engines. The OP has a 10 year old engine which does not have glow plugs and has a different panel.

Which doesn't answer Chewy's question.

My answer did.

Whether or not OP's engine has glow plugs is irrelevant to Chewy's question and my reply.

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