Diesel Stove Keeps Going Out

[mrsmelly]

14 minutes ago, Chris J said:

The stove is fed from the main diesel tank. It's completely gravity fed with no pumps in line with a steady decent from the tank to the regulator of about 2ft. Will investigate suggestions when j get home in a few hours. 

 

Thanks all for the help so far. I may need guidance disassembling everything, will be sure to post back on my findings, quandaries, or what's to do in case of flooding cabin with diesel.  

Please do be careful with the diesel. There was an all electric boat a few years ago brought in to Heyford wharf for repairs, it had a front located diesel stove supplied from the tank at the rear. There had been a small leak for some considerable time the owner had simply left. the boat was called " Switched off " The diesel had soaked through so much of the deck and other bits of wood fittings that the bill to repair and basically refit below the gunwhale ran into many thousands.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

Check or replace the filter and use a bike pump to force air from the stove to the tank any debris will be forced back into the tank.

[Ex Brummie]

If you do not have any leaks outside of the stove, the pot will only fill up to the level in the float valve. Excess can be mopped up with a sponge.

[Ex Brummie]

4 hours ago, Chris J said:

stove lighting method is diesel isolator on, turn on regulator but leVe set to off on the heat regulator (the dial that turns through off/1-6) couple of caps of meths in the pot light with a match close door. Let it warm the flue for around 30 seconds then switch regulator to 1. Normal practice would then be wait for around 15-20 minutes before adjusting the heat setting of the regulator.

 

Your burner is the same as in the bubble stoves. To light mine, I turn on the fuel, remove the catalysers, open the control knob to 6 and watch the fuel come in for 20 secs or so. When it reaches the middle, drop in a piece of rolled up tissue, light that and replace the catalysers and coals. Close the door but leave a small gap. Turn down the knob to 3 and wait until the flame starts to vaporise the fuel (with blue puffs, about 5 mins). Close the door fully and you should see the flame drop slightly and it will turn blue. Adjust to requirement. 

[Chris J]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

But is it a down ward flow all the way, no anti vibration loops 

Perhaps not, I couldn't be sure, and I do not no what an anti vibration loop is.

1 hour ago, Ex Brummie said:

If you do not have any leaks outside of the stove, the pot will only fill up to the level in the float valve. Excess can be mopped up with a sponge.

Where/what is the float valve?

1 hour ago, Ex Brummie said:

If you do not have any leaks outside of the stove, the pot will only fill up to the level in the float valve. Excess can be mopped up with a sponge.

Where/what is the float valve?

Just going to upload some pictures of my system now I'm back for reference

[Chris J]

After a couple of minutes, with regulator turned on at set to 6.

And turned down to 3 and left for a few minutes more.

 

[ditchcrawler]

This is the best photo I could find of 2 loops at the end of this engine at the ends of the red lines

[Chris J]

I'd be surprised. Back on the boat I realise I lied about a steady decent. There is steep descent from the tank then the pipe runs flattish to the stove at floor level.

[Chris J]

Update, it's kinda working you know... I can't find a substantial leak: there is a leak. Its between the tank and the inlet to the fuel filter but is very very very small. As in its not like there is pool of diesel in the bulge just evidence of a small leak in one spot. So any way I lit the stove it's on and burning. Not quite as it should be. 

It looked like it was about to go out so I whacked up the regulator a notch and that got it burning again. It's not the cleanest blue flame but it is mainly blue. Another observation is that it's sitting lower in the burner pot than usual. As in no flames are coming out of the top 2 rows of holes. 

Something is clearly still not quite right but at least there is heat!

IMG_4898.MOV

[Horace42]

16 hours ago, Chris J said:

Hi all,

So like the numpty newbie that I am smashed on the 24/7 heating to get through this cold snap and almost completely ran out of diesel. Resulting in the flame going out and the stove (a Morso squirrel conversion) sooting up quite heavily.. something thats never happened before. Any way I awaited a diesel delivery gave the stove a good clean out and froze to death for a couple of nights. 

I was hoping that a full tank of diesel would be all that was required to get some heat back in our lives. Not the case. The stove can be lit and burns a healthy blue flame but after about 20 minutes (can also hear a rather loud and fast dripping sound) the flame gradually lowers itself down the burner pot until its just a yellow flame burning away the remaining diesel in the hole where the fuel drips through until it burns out.

Anyone have any ideas whats going on or what I can do to remedy this. I have used the cleaning rod, I have cleaned out the stove, paying attention to remove the coke from all of the little air holes in the burner pot. If I turn the regulator on I can physically watch the diesel entering the burner pot. The stove has been rock solid until running out of fuel, really need to get this sorted as its unbearably cold right now!

 

Thanks in advance

 

Is it the cold weather causing your diesel to freeze. Not solid ice but diesel goes jelly-like and sluggish in cold weather. Or is there water in the diesel, or even an air-lock in the pipe, or blocked filter ? As others have said, disconnect the pipe at the heater and back-flow to the tank (blow by mouth, messy, or bike pump) and then let clean diesel flow freely, messy, then reconnect'  

Without any personal knowledge of this type of heater, but a general comment comment, a fault on the thermo-sensor (if it is a flame-failure device) will not let the heater start at the outset.

Fingers crossed for you. 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Chris J said:

Update, it's kinda working you know... I can't find a substantial leak: there is a leak. Its between the tank and the inlet to the fuel filter but is very very very small. As in its not like there is pool of diesel in the bulge just evidence of a small leak in one spot. So any way I lit the stove it's on and burning. Not quite as it should be. 

It looked like it was about to go out so I whacked up the regulator a notch and that got it burning again. It's not the cleanest blue flame but it is mainly blue. Another observation is that it's sitting lower in the burner pot than usual. As in no flames are coming out of the top 2 rows of holes. 

Something is clearly still not quite right but at least there is heat!

IMG_4898.MOV

I would suggest you dont leave the stove unattended because if it is an air lock and it clears you could got to high fire when the flow returns to normal 

[Chris J]

10 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I would suggest you dont leave the stove unattended because if it is an air lock and it clears you could got to high fire when the flow returns to normal 

As in the flame could get very big in the stove? 

[ditchcrawler]

44 minutes ago, Chris J said:

As in the flame could get very big in the stove? 

Yes

 

[Ex Brummie]

The float control is the control valve, Toby.

Your flame is only part way up the pot because you are not getting enough fuel. If you have a partial airlock I know from experience, at such low flows, they never clear, but get worse

Your small leak could be affecting the fuel supply and could be contributing to your airlock, your stove only uses about 8cc/min on mid setting and anything that disturbs such a low flow can have a significant effect. After blowing back through the supply pipe to clear any sludge, to re-establish your flow, you may need to suck through. A long piece of clear plastic tube is essential if you don't want a mouthful, or if you have an outboard type priming pump, this can help. Once you get fuel through, run a litre or two through to make sure the flow is sound. I earn my living servicing these type of burners in Rayburns and Agas, and a few local Bubble stoves, so I'm not leading you up any garden paths. They are simple units, and if you do not take shortcuts, and do the simple things right, you will have no more problems.

[Chris J]

6 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

The float control is the control valve, Toby.

Your flame is only part way up the pot because you are not getting enough fuel. If you have a partial airlock I know from experience, at such low flows, they never clear, but get worse

Your small leak could be affecting the fuel supply and could be contributing to your airlock, your stove only uses about 8cc/min on mid setting and anything that disturbs such a low flow can have a significant effect. After blowing back through the supply pipe to clear any sludge, to re-establish your flow, you may need to suck through. A long piece of clear plastic tube is essential if you don't want a mouthful, or if you have an outboard type priming pump, this can help. Once you get fuel through, run a litre or two through to make sure the flow is sound. I earn my living servicing these type of burners in Rayburns and Agas, and a few local Bubble stoves, so I'm not leading you up any garden paths. They are simple units, and if you do not take shortcuts, and do the simple things right, you will have no more problems.

Sage advice, it's really much appreciated, I'll have a go and sorting out tomorrow. The stoves been on for a good 3 hours now. It has moved back up the burner pot and is now only not burning through the top row of holes. however the flame has become a lot more orange. 

Thanks again for your advice.

[MtB]

This definitely sounds to me like an air lock. As I have said possibly twice, disconnect the fuel pipe fro the stove and run a litre or so into a container and I bet you will get gobbets of bubbles. When the bubbles stop reconnect and all will be fine.

Back in the day when I was a OFTEC qualified oil combustion technician 90% of all oil boiler breakdowns were fuel supply-related, not boiler related. (I dropped the OFTEC thing as I preferred gas work.)

[Ex Brummie]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Back in the day when I was a OFTEC qualified oil combustion technician 90% of all oil boiler breakdowns were fuel supply-related, not boiler related. (I dropped the OFTEC thing as I preferred gas work.)

I gave up OFTEC when I stopped installing and commissioning. For service and repair I don't need it. I lost one estate contract because of it, but it was no loss after saving £2K pa plus in registration fees, training (?) courses, and not having to put up with a jobsworth inspection ever year and £200 of instruction books every reprint. You Gas guys, I know, put up with an awful lot more once  British Gas got their practices under CORGI enshrined in law. Many of my gas cronies have also given up, earning a reasonable amount in their later years from steady plumbing jobs.

Chris J, one last thing I meant to advise on; remove the pipe between the toby valve and the pot and make sure it is clean, especially at the 'Tee' into the pot.

Last word.

[TeeELL]

I have only just found this thread (and yes I know it is nigh-on 18 months).  Chris, I have had a Lockgate Morso Squirrel for 15 years.  Over the last couple of years I have experienced problems similar to those you first reported.  Notwithstanding any leak issues etc, that you had to resolve, this is what I have discovered:

when the fire has been running for 48-72 hrs, the fire will ‘die’ and whatever setting is used all that occurs is the sad orange ‘candle flame’ with copiousamounts of soot.  Turn off the stove and, once cool, you will find a build up of carbon under the delivery port, it is this (I believe) that is preventing the diesel from spreading across the botton plate to burn correctly.  Remove this build-up and all will be well.

Why is this happening?  Conjecture certainly, but I suspect that it is the ‘bio’ that is slowly being added to diesel and in a ‘drip feed’ system it is building up at the point of delivery.  I could run my stove for weeks without cleaning some 5+ years ago.

What to do.

 About every 3 days, turn the fire off and allow to cool (that bit is obvious - sorry), scrape the carbon build-up away from the delivery hole and move it across to the far side of the burner pot, use the ‘prodder’ to clear the delivery hole (the stainless steel device).  When you have repeated this 3 or 4 times, it is necessary to do a more thorough clean and remove all the scraped carbon from the burner pot.

Thats it!  Frustrating but unless you can source domestic red without any bio additive then that is the procedure.

As an aside, my stove is at the front of the boat and I have a demand pump feeding the fuel from the tank at the rear.  Chris, this may not be of use to you, but perhaps others might find it useful.

[Ex Brummie]

Find a fuel supplier that only has FAME free diesel. Your boat and fire will run better for it.

[wandering snail]

1 hour ago, Ex Brummie said:

Find a fuel supplier that only has FAME free diesel. Your boat and fire will run better for it.

Is there any such supplier as the regs have stipulated a phased introduction of this stuff that presumably can't be wriggled round? Currently all 'heating' oil/diesel must contain 9.75%. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by wandering snail

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, wandering snail said:

Is there any such supplier as the regs have stipulated a phased introduction of this stuff that presumably can't be wriggled round? Currently all 'heating' oil/diesel must contain 9.75%. 

 

Just checked with an ex-colleague as to whether FAME free gas oil is available for critical power (standby generator) use and apparently it isn't.

 

Virtually all critical power installations have been retro fitted with in-built fuel polishing equipment, so that the fuel is constantly polished whenever the generator runs.

 

As the bio content is scheduled to increase to at least 12.4% by 2032, my guess is that it will become essential to fit such systems to boat engines to avoid diesel bug and/or fuel degradation, unless you can guarantee to use each tankful within 4-6 months.

[TeeELL]

FAME free!  In the last 2 weeks Ihave passed one - yes one - supplier claiming FAME free fuel.  It is not something wecan be picky about, so a cleaning regime for the Morso is necessary.