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Distances? Trying to wrap my head around the possible.


Vancouverite67

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Hi all,
Thanks to your very helpful earlier comments, we have booked a week with Le Boat out of Niewpoort, Belgium with Iepre being the primary destination. Now I'm trying to figure out what else is reasonable so far as time and distance is concerned. I don't know how far we can reasonably get in a day and I need to make some decisions around what we will do before and after the boat trip that will depend on what we can do while we have the boat. I want to be able to cruise comfortably without rushing, we have no problem with a day that is primarily cruising and don't need to moor up for the day in the early afternoon, but we also don't want to do that every day. We have rented bikes and want time to use them. So, with that in mind, how unrealistic is this plan?

-- Sat Jul 28. Pick up boat. Expecting to spend that night docked in Niewpoort, get groceries, get settled in cabins, review books and maps.
-- Sun Jul 29: Cruise to Bruges. How long would this take? I have to decide if we are going to see Bruges while we have the boat, or on our way from Amsterdam. Timing is an issue and I would prefer to include it here, but don't have to.
-- Mon Jul 30: leave Bruges mid-morning, 10 or 11? Is Diksmuide reasonable? Too far? Yes, this is a double back. Only way to make it all fit.
-- Tues Jul 31: Iepre. How long would it take to get from Diksmuide to Iepre? Spend two nights here so we have a full day to tour the museums and sites.
-- Thurs Aug 2: cruise to Veurne. If we are away by 9 am or so, what time could we reasonably expect to arrive?
-- Fri Aug 3: This is the other variable. Tell me if I'm crazy here. It will cost us ~40 Euro to get a permit to take the boat to Dunkirk. If we go to Dunkirk, I can pick up a French car that I can return to Amiens for a few hundred Euro cheaper than bringing a Belgian car over the border. Right now, its making sense to cruise from Veurne to Dunkirk, get a rental car, hubby drives the car back to Niewpoort and I bring the boat back. Can we get from Veurne to Dunkirk and then back to Niewpoort, even if we arrive in the evening? We have to have the boat ready to be returned to Le Boat by 9 am on Saturday morning, so need to be back in Niewpoort the night before.

I'm pretty sure I have to drop either Bruges or the plan to pick up a car in Dunkirk. I have a plan B to cover each of these off, but I thought I'd just see if this is possible. Please tell me if its silly and I will alter the plans, either spending time in Bruges in a hotel on our way or using trains to get to Lille and picking up a car from there to avoid those drop fees. Thank you kindly.
 

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Hubby suggested I look at the cycling times on Google maps, as car times are probably much faster than a boat, but walking times are probably too slow. Can any one look at a trip they are familiar with and compare it to the cycling times given for the same trip on Google maps? Just to give me an idea? Or how many km per day you plan on for a journey? I just have no idea what so ever what is possible.

EG. Niewpoort to Bruges is just over 2 hrs by bicycle, so hubby is saying that we can probably expect it to take somewhere around 3 hrs on the boat? That seems quite reasonable. Any guidelines at all would be so helpful. I was hoping that we could just relax and go with the flow on arrival, but there are some other logistics that need to be sorted out that mean I have to get a better idea now about what we can reasonably do.

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I can't really comment on continental waterways such as those you plan to visit, and realise boats on these may well be faster than on English canals, where a 4 mph limit generally applies, and most boats travel significantly slower than that maximum.

All I can say is that in the UK using cycling time as a basis for boating time would be a disaster.  You can easily traverse a good UK towpath about three times as fast as you can boat the canal.  (And that's assuming you don't stop for locks).

Walking estimates would be better on UK canals.

EDIT:

As I said, not my area of expertise, but it seems the excellent free canal planner CanalPlanAC does know about some, (but certainly not all) of the places you list.

For example it shows Nieuwpoort to Bruges as follows....

It could be worth seeing how much of your planned trip it knows abot?

Quote

 

Summary

This is a trip of 22.25 miles and 2 locks from Nieuwpoort to Bruges.

This will take 6 hours and 36 minutes.

From Nieuwpoort travel northeast on the Canal de Nieuwport a Plassendaal for 12.43 miles and 2 locks to Ostend a Bruges - Nieuwport a Plassendaal Verbinding, then travel east on the Kanaal Gent - Oostende for 9.82 miles to Bruges.

 

Route

Canal de Nieuwport a Plassendaal
From Nieuwpoort to:
  Ostend a Bruges - Nieuwport a Plassendaal Verbinding
Junction of Canal d'Ostend a Bruges with the Canal de Nieuwport a Plassendaal
12.43 miles, 2 locks  
Kanaal Gent - Oostende
From Ostend a Bruges - Nieuwport a Plassendaal Verbinding (Junction of Canal d'Ostend a Bruges with the Canal de Nieuwport a Plassendaal) to:
  Bruges 9.82 miles, 0 locks  

Totals

Total distance is 22.25 miles and 2 locks.

This is made up of 22.25 miles of commercial waterways; 2 large locks.

This will take 6 hours and 36 minutes. For initial calculation purposes (before adjusting for such things as overnight stops) this is taken as 1 day of 6 hours and 36 minutes.

The trip can be done in under one day, so no overnight stopping places have been calculated.

 

 

Edited by alan_fincher
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2 minutes ago, Vancouverite67 said:

That is excellent information. Thank you. I really had absolutely no idea. Can you give me a sense of what sort of daily distance you consider reasonable?

If it works the web-site I have quoted will know far more about continental timings than I could ever guess.

However I note you said just over 2 hours from Niewpoort to Bruges by cycle, whereas the canal planner estimates approaching 7 hours.  That squares with my suggestion that a bike in the UK would be 3 times faster than a boat, so maybe on the continent holiday boats don't travel a lot faster, (I don't know!)?

You may need to rethink your plans, I think!

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Interestingly, its pretty much equivalent to Google maps walking times! Now I know!

Plans are all rough and there are several possible versions. I started with my most hoped for, but nothing is set (just the dates), and I wanted to get this part plotted out so that I didn't mess up the planning on either side.

I'm now leaning towards just getting a train to France (probably Lille) and collecting a car there after we return the boat to Niewpoort, rather than spending a day or two just trying to get to Dunkirk and back.

So so very glad I asked and didn't assume what we could accomplish in the time we have. Le Boat's itinerary seems to suggest 4-5 days to get down to Ypres and back and suggests you can do a spur out to Bruges and back in the 7 day plan. That website looks like exactly what we'll need to sort out the specifics. I now just have to figure out if we will visit Bruges (one of my "checkboxes" for this trip) before, during, or after the week on the boat.

Thanks so much for all your invaluable help on this. I could have been setting myself up for a real disaster!

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I know nothing about the foreign waterways but don't make the mistake that many first timers do in England by trying to achieve the most distance you can, because you will miss out on so much. Far better to have a relaxing cruise taking your time to appreciate and explore some of the places you pass through.

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Yes, we are basing it on the Peace Cruise plan, but it all looks pretty flexible, so I wanted to just do some sniffing around the options. The whole three week trip is pretty busy (four countries in three weeks!!), so I'm looking forward to this middle week being a bit more relaxing and quiet. I don't want to make the mistake of trying to do too much. Down to Ieper and back is the main objective. Just trying to figure out what else will fit in the week. You've all been so very helpful. Thank you.

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On 09/12/2017 at 21:01, alan_fincher said:

I can't really comment on continental waterways such as those you plan to visit, and realise boats on these may well be faster than on English canals, where a 4 mph limit generally applies, and most boats travel significantly slower than that maximum.

All I can say is that in the UK using cycling time as a basis for boating time would be a disaster.  You can easily traverse a good UK towpath about three times as fast as you can boat the canal.  (And that's assuming you don't stop for locks).

Walking estimates would be better on UK canals.

EDIT:

As I said, not my area of expertise, but it seems the excellent free canal planner CanalPlanAC does know about some, (but certainly not all) of the places you list.

For example it shows Nieuwpoort to Bruges as follows....

It could be worth seeing how much of your planned trip it knows abot?

 

Until you get to some locks, when a walker will easily outpace a boater.

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On 12/9/2017 at 21:01, alan_fincher said:

I can't really comment on continental waterways such as those you plan to visit, and realise boats on these may well be faster than on English canals, where a 4 mph limit generally applies, and most boats travel significantly slower than that maximum.

All I can say is that in the UK using cycling time as a basis for boating time would be a disaster.  You can easily traverse a good UK towpath about three times as fast as you can boat the canal.  (And that's assuming you don't stop for locks).

Walking estimates would be better on UK canals.

EDIT:

As I said, not my area of expertise, but it seems the excellent free canal planner CanalPlanAC does know about some, (but certainly not all) of the places you list.

For example it shows Nieuwpoort to Bruges as follows....

It could be worth seeing how much of your planned trip it knows abot?

 

Didn;t know that canal planner did europes waterways as well. Will be handy for our trip to Brittany next year. :cheers:

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We did that route a few years back but in the opposite direction with stops as follows

Sat -- Pick boat up and travel to Diksmuide

Sun-- Travel to Iepre

Mon -- Travel to Verne

Tue -- Travel to Middlekerk

Wed -- Travel to Brugge

Thu -- Stopped in Brugge

Fri -- Travel to Niewpoort

Sat -- Hand over boat

We had plenty of time, but didn't tend to stop for lunch preferring to get settled in during the afternoon for a few beers when we reached our overnight destination. It also means that once the lock keepers and bridge keepers know you are on the way they can prepare the locks and be at the bridges ready for you, one got really upset because he was waiting for us, we had stopped for a couple of beers at a canalside pub, and not told the previous bridge keeper that we were doing so. We had an enforced stop at Niewpoort crossing the river going between Verne and the canal to middlekerk as it is tidal and you need to wait for the correct water level to be made. This is because the canal from Verne enters the river below the tidal lock, whereas thee is a short cut from the canal from Brugges just near the hire base which brings you out onto the river above the tidal lock

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  • 1 month later...

Captain Birdseye - yes, that's the trip we are doing. I only just caught this post. Thanks for your input. I was considering a full day in Iepre (so two nights) to tour the war sites and possibly cycle or bus out to one of the cemeteries (although I am much further along with my planning and we will be doing several in France, so perhaps that will be enough). But as we are doing a hotel night in Brugge, then one night there in the boat would work too. I am familiar with most of your stops except for Middlekirk, so I will open up a map now and have a look.

One of the things that has come up in my research is pre-booking moorage. Is that something we need to do on that route.

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Thank you so much. This is coming together nicely. I have one more question.

I am now planning to use the boat to get to Oostend to pick up a rental car. It looks like we can comfortably get from Oostend back to Niewpoort on the Friday (as we have to be back at the dock on Friday night to clean out the boat and turn it over in the morning.) Originally I was trying to figure out the logistics of getting it on Saturday morning, but now I'm thinking it looks much simpler to just put in at Oostend (spend Thursday night? Come in from Brugge on Friday morning?), pick up the car, one adult takes the car back to Niewpoort (and perhaps one of our rental bikes so they can cycle back to meet up with the boat somewhere on the way and enjoy the last day on the boat) so that we can transfer our stuff directly to the car when we unload the boat.

Given the logistics with the tidal crossing (this will be on Friday, August 3rd if anyone has a tide chart?), what time should I plan to collect the car and still have enough time to get back to the Niewpoort dock (the timing stuff on this boating thing is really challenging me! I want to keep the pace reasonable). I have no problem with being out on the boat until 7 or 8 in the evening if that's how it ends up.

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1 minute ago, Tim said:

Maybe go to Oostend by train from Brugge! Maybe we'll see you around as we're cruising in Belgium in July / August.

Thanks Tim. We are doing that on the way to collect the boat after a hotel night in Brugge, but I looked into renting a car and just parking it for the week and the insurance cost was an extra $300 CAD which wasn't worth it.

Or are you suggesting that someone leave Brugge on Friday morning by train to go and get the car, drive it back to Nieuwpoort...hmmm...ok, that is one solution I haven't considered (and I have been through several options - getting the car from Dunkirk, getting the car in Lille after a train trip, getting the car beforehand and parking it). That has potential. I presume they could take one of the rental bikes with them on the train, then this person wouldn't be stuck hanging around in Nieuwpoort all day afterwards. And then the boat doesn't have to detour up to Oostend. Or someone gets off the boat with the bike and rides up to get the car.

Of course, the big assumption here is that you will be able to get the rental bike in the rental car. I haven't decided what I'm renting yet. The train from Brugge does solve that problem.

10 minutes ago, Tim said:

Maybe go to Oostend by train from Brugge! Maybe we'll see you around as we're cruising in Belgium in July / August.

And that would be great, Tim! We love meeting people on our travels. Really, its the best part. I will keep my eyes open for Deep Thought.. and I will mine you mercilessly for information! lol

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And then...she woke up. I was so focused on getting the car from the nearest and easiest pick up point (which was either going to be Oostend or Dunkirk) that I lost sight that if we are going to be able to squeeze in a night in Brugge, then getting the car right from Brugge is going to be the easiest. The Europecar depot is right on the canal, so this is all around the best option yet. Goodness these details take a long time to sort out.

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