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The Price Of Old Windlasses


cheshire~rose

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2 minutes ago, Athy said:

It is a most handsome and distinctive piece - I am not sure if the twirl (or whatever) adds anything to its efficiency in action, but I reckon there would be a market for repro's of this.

It doesn't

Richard

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58 minutes ago, carlt said:

A tenner plus postage sounds fine (rounded up to £15?).

Is Paypal okay?

I've just bought a lovely split cane pier rod which it will look lovely hanging off.

I don't suppose you have a photo of the back do you?

That would be great thanks 

 

I have just thought I am going to the HNBC thingy at Lapworth next weekend if there is anyone who lives in your neck of the woods going and can take it for you? 

I will dig it out of the box it has arrived home in and get a photo of the back for you 

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5 hours ago, RLWP said:

Cast steel is a real thing

Richard

 

Yes, not doubting that, but I would still think the windlass head is cast iron. (At one stage before alloy became common that was the norm).

2 hours ago, pete harrison said:

The stem post and stern post of Yarwoods built G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. and F.M.C. Ltd. narrow boat are made from cast steel, or at least that what the detailed drawings I have state, and I imagine this will be the same for the Harland and Wolff Ltd. narrow boats (excluding the wooden ones of course) :captain:

 

Yes - do you have the Yarwoods or H&W drawing for windlass heads though?  That would be more relevant to this discussion!

 

1 hour ago, David Schweizer said:

You would have thought someone who owned two Yarwoods built G.U.C.C.Co. boats would have known that. :lol:

I did!

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6 minutes ago, dor said:

I wonder what this one would be worth?  Used by Prince Charles at the opening of Weshpool town lock after the original restoration (although they got the year wrong).

 

Welshpool Windlass 2.jpg

 

The reproduction of the colours is confusing me.  Is it well polished bronze, or a (possibly?) chromed finish?  (If the latter we can then argue what the cast material is underneath the chrome!).

Looks to be a large head size, rather than a narrow one, or is that an illusion?

35 minutes ago, Athy said:

It is a most handsome and distinctive piece - I am not sure if the twirl (or whatever) adds anything to its efficiency in action, but I reckon there would be a market for repro's of this.

It means it will fit in a typical belt far less comfortably!

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1 minute ago, alan_fincher said:

 

The reproduction of the colours is confusing me.  Is it well polished bronze, or a (possibly?) chromed finish?  (If the latter we can then argue what the cast material is underneath the chrome!).

Looks to be a large head size, rather than a narrow one, or is that an illusion?

It is solid brass, so perhaps the colour is deceptive (it is well polished).   It is a standard Shroppie-type head, i.e. tapered small.

 

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1 minute ago, dor said:

It is solid brass, so perhaps the colour is deceptive (it is well polished).   It is a standard Shroppie-type head, i.e. tapered small.

 

Definitely brass? - that type were usually bronze, which would be more durable for practical use.  Interestingly that one has had some use, not just stored away somewhere.

Without the lettering and the provenance, (and I'm not sure if Charlie having handled it increases or decreases the value! :P), these seem to often sell for up to 3 figure sums.

That always seems daft to me for a 1970s mass produced cast item, but they really do.

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11 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 



Looks to be a large head size,

Perhaps it was subsequently used by Tony Blair.

11 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

 

It means it will fit in a typical belt far less comfortably!

Yes, good point.

Edited by Athy
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12 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Definitely brass? - that type were usually bronze, which would be more durable for practical use.  Interestingly that one has had some use, not just stored away somewhere.

Without the lettering and the provenance, (and I'm not sure if Charlie having handled it increases or decreases the value! :P), these seem to often sell for up to 3 figure sums.

That always seems daft to me for a 1970s mass produced cast item, but they really do.

I should point out I don't own the windlass, although I took the photos.  I also have a scan of a couple of slides taken at the time of Charlie using it.  I'm pretty certain it is brass not bronze, going by the colour.   Although it was used in the lock ceremony in 1974, it has not been used since, and going by the state of it I would imagine it saw a good bit of service before that date.

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The windlass referred to by the op and later pictured by RWLP looks very like this one.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSO93rfY-DC98zzBbnt8XF

 

If they had sailing barges on the Chesterfield then perhaps boatmen carried a tool which could be used to winch the mast up and down AND wind the paddles at the locks ?

 

 

Edited by magnetman
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24 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The windlass referred to by the op and later pictured by RWLP looks very like this one.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSO93rfY-DC98zzBbnt8XF

 

If they had sailing barges on the Chesterfield then perhaps boatmen carried a tool which could be used to winch the mast up and down AND wind the paddles at the locks ?

 

 

It does look very much like that. It is hard to tell the scale but that looks far bigger than a windlass? 

You point about it being a dual purpose tool is a good one, although the sails would only have been raised once they left West Stockwith and got onto the tidal Trent. 

 

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As promised I am detailing below the method I use for cleaning rusty items, which is simple and does not require any aggressive materials like sand paper. If you have any questions please ask, and I wil, try to answer them.

REMOVING RUST FROM IRON OR STEEL

 

To remove rust from Iron or steel you need a few items :-  a non-metallic container large enough to accommodate the rusty item, a 6v or 12v battery charger with a minimum output of 4amps, a strip or rod of stainless steel, and some sodium carbonate powder (bicarbonate of soda)

Place the rusty item into the container. Make an electrolyte solution by adding two teaspoons of sodium carbonate to a quart of water and pour into the container, ensuring that it covers at least half the rusty object (mix more electrolyte if necessary). Attach the negative charger clip to the rusty object ensuring that it does not enter the electrolyte, and attach the positive charger clip to the strip of stainless steel, again ensuring that it does not enter the electrolyte. Switch on the charger and select a setting which gives a reading of approximately 2amps. Move the two items in the electrolyte closer or further apart to adjust the reading if needed. After a couple of minutes bubbles will start to appear moving from the rusty item to the stainless steel.

The amount of time needed to remove the rust will depend upon how rusty it is but most items require a couple of hours, however, it does not matter if it is left longer as no harm will come to the item. When it looks as if the rust has been removed, turn off the charger unclip the leads, and remove the item, which will now have a black residue on the cleaned portion, wipe this off and, if necessary, brush it off with a stiff brush, preferably underneath clean water to eliminate splashing. If you are satisfied that sufficient rust has been removed, return the item to the container and repeat the process for the untreated portion. If some rust is still present repeat the process. When all the rust has been removed, dry it thoroughly and polish it with beeswax, or if you have some, Renaissance Wax.  That’s it.

WARNING:-  This process will produce some minor fumes, so it is best conducted in a well ventilated area

Edited by David Schweizer
  • Greenie 1
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13 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

As promised I am detailing below the method I use for cleaning rusty items, which is simple and does not require any aggressive materials like sand paper. If you have any questions please ask, and I wil, try to answer them.

REMOVING RUST FROM IRON OR STEEL

 

To remove rust from Iron or steel you need a few items :-  a non-metallic container large enough to accommodate the rusty item, a 6v or 12v battery charger with a minimum output of 4amps, a strip or rod of stainless steel, and some sodium carbonate powder (bicarbonate of soda)

Place the rusty item into the container. Make an electrolyte solution by adding two teaspoons of sodium carbonate to a quart of water and pour into the container, ensuring that it covers at least half the rusty object (mix more electrolyte if necessary). Attach the negative charger clip to the rusty object ensuring that it does not enter the electrolyte, and attach the positive charger clip to the strip of stainless steel, again ensuring that it does not enter the electrolyte. Switch on the charger and select a setting which gives a reading of approximately 2amps. Move the two items in the electrolyte closer or further apart to adjust the reading if needed. After a couple of minutes bubbles will start to appear moving from the rusty item to the stainless steel.

The amount of time needed to remove the rust will depend upon how rusty it is but most items require a couple of hours, however, it does not matter if it is left longer as no harm will come to the item. When it looks as if the rust has been removed, turn off the charger unclip the leads, and remove the item, which will now have a black residue on the cleaned portion, wipe this off and, if necessary, brush it off with a stiff brush, preferably underneath clean water to eliminate splashing. If you are satisfied that sufficient rust has been removed, return the item to the container and repeat the process for the untreated portion. If some rust is still present repeat the process. When all the rust has been removed, dry it thoroughly and polish it with beeswax, or if you have some, Renaissance Wax.  That’s it.

WARNING:-  This process will produce some minor fumes, so it is best conducted in a well ventilated area

I have had great success using this electrolytic process on old engine parts. It  loosens or removes any old paint as well as flaky rust. I used washing soda rather than bicarb of soda, not sure what the difference is. There does not seem to be a problem if the  negative terminal from the power supply is immersed, I use crimp terminals bolted or clamped to the part to be cleaned.Bigger parts I leave for a couple of days with a current of 2 or 3 amps. The polarity (+ and -) of the supply is most important, follow David's instructions , otherwise your treasured artefact could disappear.

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This is the favoured way of removing rust from within motorcycle petrol tanks too. The tank itself becomes one polarity, and a rod of sufficient length inserted into the cavity of the tank, suitably insulated at the neck, and of a shape to avoid and reach beside the internal 'tunnel' frimly fixed at the neck so as to prevent shorting out, and the solution added. Petrol taps of die cast materials of a zinc or aluminium base have to be removed and the hole plugged prior to the operation.

Edited by Derek R.
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3 hours ago, billh said:

I have had great success using this electrolytic process on old engine parts. It  loosens or removes any old paint as well as flaky rust. I used washing soda rather than bicarb of soda, not sure what the difference is. There does not seem to be a problem if the  negative terminal from the power supply is immersed, I use crimp terminals bolted or clamped to the part to be cleaned.Bigger parts I leave for a couple of days with a current of 2 or 3 amps. The polarity (+ and -) of the supply is most important, follow David's instructions , otherwise your treasured artefact could disappear.

Yes Washing soda (Sodium Carbonate) is preferable. Bicarbonate of Soda is actually a different chemical, although I have been told that it works. However, like yourself, I have always used Sodium Carbonate.

Edited by David Schweizer
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24 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

No, it is clearly a bronze / brass / gunmetal one.

I think the same moulds were used for them as for the cast iron ones, which is why they are physically similar, apart from the material used.

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The brass one looks like a brass one to me.

Available at chandleries in the 90s. They bend. They may look similar but are not actually the same size as the 1960s cast iron one in the other listing. (I just measured to check).


The brass one will fit the Hatton candlesticks and _might not_ bend on those as they are relatively light but use on lock paddles is not generally recommended.

 

Decorative item


I'm happy to be corrected by anyone (specially Lawrence Hogg).

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On 11/23/2017 at 07:43, keithbo said:

 

11 minutes ago, keithbo said:

This particular one was bought prior to 1980 not sure of exact date somewhere between 1973 and 1979


Failed to spot when you put it there that you are the seller.

I still think the 33mm to 30mm taper equates to the size that would have fitted GU standard paddle gear, before it all got refitted with the smaller sized spindles, (I'm excluding the Ham Baker stuff on the Birmingham main line, which wasn't modified in the same way).

I have one of these, and unless some kind of reducer is fitted to them, I don't think they will work on many conventional paddles of today.

They probably will fit some surviving hydraulic gear, and also the GU Birmingham line Ham Baker paddles, but not well, because the taper will be too much.

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

Available at chandleries in the 90s. They bend. They may look similar but are not actually the same size as the 1960s cast iron one in the other listing. (I just measured to check).

I can confirm that in the 1970s cast iron and cast bronze (or gunmetal) were made to udentical dimensions, differing only by the maeterial used.

keithbo's example looks like one of those to my eye.

Edited by alan_fincher
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