The true license evaders

[Midnight]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Yes I thought you might come up with that old chestnut. Watch my lips " Its a load of crap " much of whats written on line is wrong and personal recommendation is needed. I have been both ways thro Thorne lock on my previous boat a seventy foot Hudson.

Yes mate I have published it on here a few time on different threads. Its a shame its not better known as I think it has stopped countless people going oop north for many years. I took the seventy foot Hudson through both ways Up hill forwards and backed in to return. There was NO SPACE so it will depend how precise my or any other boats length is.

 

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Yes I thought you might come up with that old chestnut. Watch my lips " Its a load of crap " much of whats written on line is wrong and personal recommendation is needed. I have been both ways thro Thorne lock on my previous boat a seventy foot Hudson.

Yes mate I have published it on here a few time on different threads. Its a shame its not better known as I think it has stopped countless people going oop north for many years. I took the seventy foot Hudson through both ways Up hill forwards and backed in to return. There was NO SPACE so it will depend how precise my or any other boats length is.

Been through Thorne many times but didn't notice how much room there was to spare so I bow to your superior knowledge and experience.
Anyway Trent Falls is VERY exciting so you won't want to miss that surely???

[Victor Vectis]

OK

But remember when you get to the swing bridge at Thorne (you know, the one that doesn't work, under the road bridge) when you phone CaRT to call out the cavalry it isn't on their database so they know nothing about it. It's owned by Thorne Town Council so you have to phone them.............and they don't answer! (You might wonder how we know this)

And, when you get to Sykehouse Lock, the advice is to work the bridge across the lock first and last.

[mrsmelly]

5 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

OK

But remember when you get to the swing bridge at Thorne (you know, the one that doesn't work, under the road bridge) when you phone CaRT to call out the cavalry it isn't on their database so they know nothing about it. It's owned by Thorne Town Council so you have to phone them.............and they don't answer! (You might wonder how we know this)

And, when you get to Sykehouse Lock, the advice is to work the bridge across the lock first and last.

Yep its happened to us more than once

[Midnight]

1 minute ago, Victor Vectis said:

And, when you get to Sykehouse Lock, the advice is to work the bridge across the lock first and last.

Sykehouse should be in the Guinness Book of Records for the most call-outs for assistance through. I reckon of the many times I've been through there's been a problem 80% of the time.

[mrsmelly]

6 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 

Been through Thorne many times but didn't notice how much room there was to spare so I bow to your superior knowledge and experience.
Anyway Trent Falls is VERY exciting so you won't want to miss that surely???

I have done the Falls " Trent end " but on a proper boat not a floating skip. We went up intending to have to do it till some bloke en route told me we could get through Thorne lock so we thought what the hell lets try it if it didn't wrk theres room to turn at the mouth of the lock so just back out and up tut long way round BUT  twas good information and we took it through, myself and PJ who no longer posts.

[Mike Todd]

3 hours ago, Victor Vectis said:

OK

But remember when you get to the swing bridge at Thorne (you know, the one that doesn't work, under the road bridge) when you phone CaRT to call out the cavalry it isn't on their database so they know nothing about it. It's owned by Thorne Town Council so you have to phone them.............and they don't answer! (You might wonder how we know this)

And, when you get to Sykehouse Lock, the advice is to work the bridge across the lock first and last.

In general it does work but is very sensitive to getting the pedestrian gates properly aligned shut.

[David Mack]

6 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

 A seventy footer goes through Thorne lock ( narrow beam )

But 71 ft 6 in does not!

Fulbourne has been in Thorne Lock chamber both when full and empty, but sadly a few weeks apart.

Edited November 15, 2017 by David Mack

[mrsmelly]

9 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But 71 ft 6 in does not!

Fulbourne has been in Thorne Lock chamber both when full and empty, but sadly a few weeks apart.

Nope  not a chance. However there are a lot of people with seventy footers and indeed boats well up in the sixties that don't go that route due to the misinformation.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

22 hours ago, David Mack said:

As a condition of the NAA marina owners have to allow CRT staff in to check the licence status of boats there. They then have the same information to pursue enforcement as for unlicenced boats on the canal.

As MtB has pointed out, C&RT only have a claim against the marina owner under the NAA. They can not pursue enforcement action against the boater. 

[Mike Todd]

14 hours ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

As MtB has pointed out, C&RT only have a claim against the marina owner under the NAA. They can not pursue enforcement action against the boater. 

But, in some ways, that makes it a stronger enforcement option: it is easier to proceed against a marina owner (at least the marina cannot hide away!) than against a boat owner who may well not have a permanent address - even the marina may not provide a suitable address to the boater for proceedings. In most cases the marina owner will have assets that can be 'seized' whilst a boater who lives aboard (and I realise that there are other scenarios) will probably not.

[Athy]

On 14/11/2017 at 22:33, MartynG said:

e

However the C&RT wording indicates there are some marinas (which are inferred as being in a small minority) where the boats need not necessarily be licensed while in the marina .

T

 

Whilton was like that when we moored our first boat there nigh on 20 years ago. I don't know if it still is.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Athy said:

Whilton was like that when we moored our first boat there nigh on 20 years ago. I don't know if it still is.

There are 3 marinas within about 20 miles of us that are all 'licence free zones'

There are quite a 'reasonable' number of them around the system (may be a minority, but I'd guess not by much)

[Alan de Enfield]

The number of untaxed vehicles on Britain’s roads is now three times the level it was before the paper tax disc was abolished three years ago.

Department for Transport figures show that owners have failed to pay or renew vehicle excise duty for 1.8% of vehicles – almost 700,000, mostly cars and light goods vehicles. The numbers mean the Treasury could be losing up to £107m a year in unpaid tax, according to government estimates.

DVLA says in past three years there has been 166% rise in clamping of vehicles because of a failure to pay vehicle duty

Its equivalent, a biennial roadside survey from 2013, showed a rate of just 0.6% – around 210,000 untaxed vehicles on the road – in the last full year before the paper tax disc was abolished in October 2014.

The rate rose to 1.4% in 2015, but has surged again this year, a development described as extremely concerning by motoring groups, who warned essential revenue for road improvements would be lost.

As with boaters it is the 'minority' groups who are the greatest offenders:

Almost 6% of motorbikes were untaxed.

Full story here:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/nov/16/untaxed-vehicles-uk-trebles-tax-disc-abolition-vehicle-excise-duty-dvla

[john6767]

Saw that about car tax, although I think that is explained to some extent by the confusion about what happens when you buy a car, but also an indication that the need to display a piece of paper still a good idea.  Perhaps CRT will think twice about removing the need to display the licence, if they were actually seriously considering it anyway.

[Athy]

46 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The number of untaxed vehicles on Britain’s roads is now three times the level it was before the paper tax disc was abolished three years ago.

Department for Transport figures show that owners have failed to pay or renew vehicle excise duty for 1.8% of vehicles – almost 700,000, mostly cars and light goods vehicles. The numbers mean the Treasury could be losing up to £107m a year in unpaid tax, according to government estimates.

DVLA says in past three years there has been 166% rise in clamping of vehicles because of a failure to pay vehicle duty

 

Whoever would have thought it?

But wasn't the clamping of cars outlawed a few years back?

[Naughty Cal]

14 hours ago, Athy said:

Whoever would have thought it?

But wasn't the clamping of cars outlawed a few years back?

Well if it was the DVLA don't seem to be aware of it.

They are around on our street once a month and there are usually one or two cars each time that are clamped 

[carlt]

On 14/11/2017 at 12:57, GoodGurl said:

So everybody kicks off about CCrs not being licensed when in truth its marina boats that are the biggest culprits.

https://www.thefloater.org/the-floater-november-2017/who-are-the-licence-dodgers

Also see Alan's FOI to CRT here - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/boat_license_evasion_by_type#incoming-1067470

and the attachment figures here -  https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/440869/response/1067470/attach/html/3/Unlicensed Boats March 2017.xlsx.html

C&RT came back with a breakdown of 828 unlicensed boats:

545 on 'Home Moorings'  (65.8%)
232 'Continuous Cruisers'  (28%)
31  'unknown'  (3.7%)
13 'Other Nav. Authorities'  (1.6%)
7  'out of water'  (0.8%) (Probably trailboats)

I have two registered boats "unlicenced" and out of water (though one is at present full of water, being stored outside...does that count?)

As I have no obligation to either license my boats (being out of the water) nor inform CRT of their current status I don't even see why they should be counting them.

48 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Well if it was the DVLA don't seem to be aware of it.

They are around on our street once a month and there are usually one or two cars each time that are clamped 

Clamping of cars on private land by private individuals or companies was outlawed.

DVLA and their agents can still clamp unlicensed cars.

[cheshire~rose]

17 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

There are 3 marinas within about 20 miles of us that are all 'licence free zones'

There are quite a 'reasonable' number of them around the system (may be a minority, but I'd guess not by much)

Hatherton Marina is another one where the boats do not need to be licenced to be in the marina. I used to see the licence checker stop his bike on the opposite side of the cut and make a note of all the licence numbers he could see as he moved along. I do wonder how many of the numbers he managed to log were boats that had no licence and how that would affect the reporting he did. 

[MtB]

"The true license evaders"

I'd have thought all license evaders were 'true license evaders', not just those in marinas.

Interesting news article on the radio yesterday. Car tax evasion has tripled since they dropped the requirement to display a tax disc, rising from £33m a year to £97m a year now. I'm not surprised as peer pressure to license vanishes. 

CRT would do well to drop this silly thing were they say displaying a boat license is on longer necessary. Enforcing the law that says a licensed boat must display the license would cut evasion substantially at a stroke in my opinion.

[furnessvale]

41 minutes ago, carlt said:

I have two registered boats "unlicenced" and out of water (though one is at present full of water, being stored outside...does that count?)

As I have no obligation to either license my boats (being out of the water) nor inform CRT of their current status I don't even see why they should be counting them.

 

There are certainly a lot more than 7 boats stored on the bank.  CRT must have a specific reason to only put 7 on the list.

Perhaps those 7 are known by CRT to consistently launch onto their waters without a licence?

George

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Interesting news article on the radio yesterday

More info on this in Post #88

[carlt]

Just now, furnessvale said:

There are certainly a lot more than 7 boats stored on the bank.  CRT must have a specific reason to only put 7 on the list.

Perhaps those 7 are known by CRT to consistently launch onto their waters without a licence?

George

But they are only unlicensed when in the water.

I assumed they were counting those like me who chucked the reminder in the bin rather than drafting a letter telling them that the boat was no longer in the water though I would have put that figure higher than 7 too.

[Dave Payne]

3 minutes ago, carlt said:

But they are only unlicensed when in the water.

I assumed they were counting those like me who chucked the reminder in the bin rather than drafting a letter telling them that the boat was no longer in the water though I would have put that figure higher than 7 too.

Why draft a letter?

https://licensing.canalrivertrust.org.uk/OffWaterDeclaration/StartDeclaration

Self declare, just like a SORN.

[carlt]

2 minutes ago, Dave Payne said:

Why draft a letter?

https://licensing.canalrivertrust.org.uk/OffWaterDeclaration/StartDeclaration

Self declare, just like a SORN.

Absolutely not!

If they want to find out where my boats are they can come and knock my door and I might even tell them.

I am legally obliged to SORN my cars when they are unlicensed, not my boats.

 

[Dave Payne]

2 minutes ago, carlt said:

Absolutely not!

If they want to find out where my boats are they can come and knock my door and I might even tell them.

I am legally obliged to SORN my cars when they are unlicensed, not my boats.

 

wow!