Jump to content

First ever steel narrow boat hulls manufactured for leisue boat use?


alan_fincher

Featured Posts

10 minutes ago, Carl Ryan said:

As an aside. I remember many Simolda boats in the 70's. Odd things similar to Springers but I seem to remember built by a company that normally built ice cream vans. Am I imagining this or is the red wine getting the better of me.

Carl

Perhaps both.

I remember the name but thought that they were a hire fleet operator - who may, of course, have built their own boats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Athy said:

Perhaps both.

I remember the name but thought that they were a hire fleet operator - who may, of course, have built their own boats.

Simolda was a hire operator, I remember their boats as somewhat "utilerian", squarish and basic. Don't think they lasted long after the 80's, they were based in Nantwich basin and the site became the BW hire base and shop afterwards IIRC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Carl Ryan said:

As an aside. I remember many Simolda boats in the 70's. Odd things similar to Springers but I seem to remember built by a company that normally built ice cream vans. Am I imagining this or is the red wine getting the better of me.

Carl

You're quite right. Simolda were a hire firm owned by Cummins of Crewe who built ice cream vans. I'm fairly certain that they built their own boats. I holidayed on one of them in 1979 and they were of poor build standard and poorly maintained - the joke was that they "seemed older" than they really were. Their base wasn't actually in Nantwich basin itself, but in the small basin on the main line just outside the main basin. The BW hire fleet was based inside the main basin at the same time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/11/2017 at 22:07, alan_fincher said:

Another genuine question then - presumably "William Harris & Son" are what became "Harris Brothers"?  In which case, assuming the naming of the business moved down a generation, I'm wondering why it wasn't William Harris and Sons? :wacko:

I know this may well be controversial but I think that some confusion has been introduced by over eager enthusiasts over the years where the boat builder William Harris and Son(s ?) of Washington Works, Bumble Hole and the Brierley Hil based carrier Harris Bros. have been inadvertently merged. As always I am happy to be proven wrong :captain: 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Keeping Up said:

I've just looked at the original paperwork in which "Worcester" was registered at Hull as a 13 ton ship in order to qualify for a marine mortgage.

The boatbuilder is listed as "Harborough Marine Ltd, Market Harborough, Leics". The Owner is listed as "Mid-England Narrow Boats Ltd having its principal place of business as 80/81 Wood-Gate, Loughborough in the county of Leicester". The date of construction is shown as 1970 although I am fairly sure that the build started in late 1969.

I do know that the boat went directly to Trevor to be one of the boats in the hire fleet there. When Anglo-Welsh sold Worcester out of Trevor in 1975, the bill of sale is on Harborough Marine headed paper, and is signed by (illegible) as "Director, Mid England Narrow Boats Limited, Harborough Marine Limited"

I have a 1973 brochure from Anglo-Welsh which says "Our hire fleet began in 1965 with two converted narrow boats based at Market Harborough. Each succeeding year has seen an increase in the number of boats, and new bases have been opened at Wootton Wawen and Great Haywood. As new boats of improved design are introduced, so the elder ones are phased out. For the 1973 season we have a fleet of 48 modern narrow boats at our four bases"

All of which gives no real information about the relationship between the company names - but is interesting.

 

In the BWB  "straight-blue-line"  guide to the Llangollen Canal, an ad for Anglo-Welsh Canal Cruisers of The Wharf, Trevor, Denbighshire states that it is a subsidiary of Haborough Marine Limited.   In another ad, Harborough Marine of Canal Basin, Market Harborough is offering "Midland" class traditional wooden narrow-boats for pleasure, hire or cargo-carrying" in lengths from 32'-72' from £736.

But other than it is post 1963 and pre-decimalisation, there is no indication of the publication date.

A 1972 Canals Book has Canal Cruising of Stone offering for hire what looks to be a steel-hulled boat,  Shropshire Union Cruisers having for sale Cutlass class boats (steel hull, grp top), Beeston Pleasure Craft with steel hulls , Lapworth Narrowbooats in Timber and Steel p to 70', Willow Wren "hulls in steel with sturdy cabins in traditional materials", Rugby Boatbuilders with 1/4" bottom, 3/16 sides and 3/8 exterior(!) ply cabin and varous others in lciding Dartline, Braunston Boatd and Concoform which are part-steel, at least.

So by 1972, steel hulls were widely established.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, zenataomm said:

My boat is an ex-hire sporting a plaque for Stone Boat Builders 1969.

I took it back there a few years ago to enquire.

I was told the details were right, and the back story was that during 60s the steel hulls were built for them at Penkridge and then towed to Stone where a wooden top was plonked on and the craft fitted out.

ISTR the "Bijou line set up built steel hulls along the offside of Penkridge lock they wre onof the several company"s that used the GRP tops along with Teddesley & SUC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, RLWP said:

Have you much experience of steel hulls and GRP tops?

Richard

I haven't - all my boat shave been of all-steel construction. But i wonder why boats were built in that way in the first place; was it because GRP was a cheaper material, so the cost to the customer could be kept down? Or was it perhaps for reasons of stability, as the top bit would be much lighter in weight than the bottom bit?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Have you much experience of steel hulls and GRP tops?

Richard

None.  I'm genuinely interested.  I do think boats have become less varied over the years.  Leading to the 'clonecraft' phenomenon.  I'm all for a bit more diversity on the cut.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Athy said:

I haven't - all my boat shave been of all-steel construction. But i wonder why boats were built in that way in the first place; was it because GRP was a cheaper material, so the cost to the customer could be kept down? Or was it perhaps for reasons of stability, as the top bit would be much lighter in weight than the bottom bit?

The GRP Tops had Merit as they reduced Fit out Time, The whole upper Cabin  could be fitted with Insulation,Windows and Wiring.also Saved Painting as the Gelcoat was Pre Coloured.

It could also be built in a separate work area and fitted to the Hull in a shorter time than it's Steel counterpart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

None.  I'm genuinely interested.  I do think boats have become less varied over the years.  Leading to the 'clonecraft' phenomenon.  I'm all for a bit more diversity on the cut.

I wondered if Beau was such a boat. The issues seem to be in sealing the cabin to the hull along the gunwales , forming proper front and rear bulkheads that seal and getting enough strength in the roof to allow people to walk on and jump onto it. None seem to be insurmountable problems

Then you have to make moulds that allow for different length boats and window configurations, and employ people with GRP experience in addition to welders

Richard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, RLWP said:

I wondered if Beau was such a boat. The issues seem to be in sealing the cabin to the hull along the gunwales , forming proper front and rear bulkheads that seal and getting enough strength in the roof to allow people to walk on and jump onto it. None seem to be insurmountable problems

Then you have to make moulds that allow for different length boats and window configurations, and employ people with GRP experience in addition to welders

Richard

How dare you propagate such a dreadful slur!!!  (I think I've answered my own question)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, RLWP said:

I wondered if Beau was such a boat. The issues seem to be in sealing the cabin to the hull along the gunwales , forming proper front and rear bulkheads that seal and getting enough strength in the roof to allow people to walk on and jump onto it. None seem to be insurmountable problems

Then you have to make moulds that allow for different length boats and window configurations, and employ people with GRP experience in addition to welders

Richard

The Mould would usually be made for the longest length of Cabin , a moveable Bulkhead would be used for shorter Cabin lengths.

The main problem with the Sealing was that Steel and GRP have different Thermal expansion rates which caused the Fixings(often Roofing/Gutter Bolts!) to be strained, thereby encouraging leaks.

GRP had several Raw Material price hikes in the Seventies so it is likely that Steel Construction methods became more economic, and MIG Welders became Cheaper and widely available.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

Wondering why nobody now builds boats with steel hulls and GRP tops?  Or do they?

Not sure if anyone does but the 3 or more sections required ( dependent on cabin length )always seemed to require a constant upkeep on maintenance to prevent water ingress also some hulls the upstand on the gunwale the cabin bolted to was of insufficient height & the "goo's at that time were crude by today's standards there was a boat IIRC buit by Teddesly with an owner fit out(the owner being into woodwork ) he made/fitted cabin side /roof beams from oak all with carved edges & as far as I'm aware he had no problems I think the problem lay with to flexi cabin sections maybe in the present day with advances in technology stiffer cabin sections & modern sealants would solve the 60/70's problems

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

The Mould would usually be made for the longest length of Cabin , a moveable Bulkhead would be used for shorter Cabin lengths.

The main problem with the Sealing was that Steel and GRP have different Thermal expansion rates which caused the Fixings(often Roofing/Gutter Bolts!) to be strained, thereby encouraging leaks.

GRP had several Raw Material price hikes in the Seventies so it is likely that Steel Construction methods became more economic, and MIG Welders became Cheaper and widely available.

The moulds for the early cabins was 3 pieces a bow /stern & cente section of which only the centre could be varied in length & were very flexi before fitting before mounting with the cabins resting on the ground the bottom edges would be some 7' 8" apart

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, X Alan W said:

The moulds for the early cabins was 3 pieces a bow /stern & cente section of which only the centre could be varied in length & were very flexi before fitting before mounting with the cabins resting on the ground the bottom edges would be some 7' 8" apart

 Never knew that several sections were used, that was asking for trouble! having spent a good deal of time involved with Moulding and Construction of GRP/Kevlar Boats I am suprised that it was done in such a needlessly complex fashion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, cereal tiller said:

 Never knew that several sections were used, that was asking for trouble! having spent a good deal of time involved with Moulding and Construction of GRP/Kevlar Boats I am suprised that it was done in such a needlessly complex fashion.

You have the advantage of looking back with a lot of experience. Working out how to do this job for the first time, making a front section, a rear section and a variable length middle sounds logical

Like most things, planning something for the first time may seem simple, then the reality of the material and process reveals itself

Richard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

 Never knew that several sections were used, that was asking for trouble! having spent a good deal of time involved with Moulding and Construction of GRP/Kevlar Boats I am suprised that it was done in such a needlessly complex fashion.

IIRC the bow /stern sections were around 12' long & either 1std length /reduced length or multiple centre lengths were used they had a around a 1" flange that was drilled & bolted together with SS nuts & bolts I have come across an odd one that had self tappers holding the sections together also with ordinary ferrous fasteners (Say no more) It was hailed as the answer to wood frame ,T&G boards,pitch paper, & tempered masonite built cabins which had been the way to go for conversions to ex working craft I guess you could say it was a good Idea that didn't achieve it's potential  for a few reasons

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, X Alan W said:

IIRC the bow /stern sections were around 12' long & either 1std length /reduced length or multiple centre lengths were used they had a around a 1" flange that was drilled & bolted together with SS nuts & bolts I have come across an odd one that had self tappers holding the sections together also with ordinary ferrous fasteners (Say no more) It was hailed as the answer to wood frame ,T&G boards,pitch paper, & tempered masonite built cabins which had been the way to go for conversions to ex working craft I guess you could say it was a good Idea that didn't achieve it's potential  for a few reasons

That's a really good point. GRP was a step on from wooden tops, rather than an alternative to steel

Richard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, RLWP said:

You have the advantage of looking back with a lot of experience. Working out how to do this job for the first time, making a front section, a rear section and a variable length middle sounds logical

Like most things, planning something for the first time may seem simple, then the reality of the material and process reveals itself

Richard

I would also think that with the 3  or more sections it was ease of handling not all the outlets for these things had mech handling. It was at that time an infant industry & a lot of set ups were 1man bands or 3/4 man at best 4 guys could manhandle the sections no bother + the sections would with padding fit on top of each other & fit on the back of the std flat back truck of the day one long section would have required special handling/truck=increased cost& at that time company's in that line of work were operating on coin profit not large wads of the folding stuff leisure boating at that time was for small numbers of enthusiasts "chunttering"up/down the cut in more or less anything that floated, pontoon conversions ex ships lifeboats & the array of small 20'ish GRP cruisers look at photos from the mid60's early 70's the all steel  NB was a rarity or a non event in the main the only metal hulls were ex working craft At that time the I want to buy & live on a boat on the canal bubble had not burst I stopped boating full time in 72 but have had around a weeks boating with a 10 year gap "tween" each week the cut now 2015 was the last time I boated bears no resemblance to the way it was when I left in 72 the whole package for want of a better word has changed so it is only right to expect the requirements of today's boat users are different

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, alvicchas1 said:

Hi All,

My first narrow boat - Su Sian was built by Shropshire Union Boat builders in 1967. It  had a steel hull and wooden top built by David Piper when he was apprentice. I bought it in 1996, renovated it and sold it in 2004. It is still going strong on the Paddington Arm of the Grand Union.

 

AA_0_018.jpg

AA_0_022.jpg

My son has one of these which was built in the early seventies, I think that they are quite a pretty design with a certain amount of sheer.

The superstructure on his comprises of ply bulkheads, grp top and aluminium sides.

Keith

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.