First ever steel narrow boat hulls manufactured for leisue boat use?

[alan_fincher]

I'm actually not sure how exactly to phrase the question really!

Most early leisure narrow boats were conversions of former working boats.

At some point somebody must have started manufacturing steel narrow boat hulls specifically for no other purpose than leisure boat use.  (In most cases, I suggest the cabins would still have not been built in steel).

Which builder was the first to buils steel leisure narrow boat hulls, and when, please ?

I realise this subject can be interpreted in various ways though.  There may well have been some early "one off" builds, but which were not produced in multiple numbers for resale.

I'm interested in all answers, however you choose to interpret the question!

This is a genuine question, because my canal knowledge does not really pre-date the 1970s, but quite clearly we are looking at at least a bit longer ago than that.

 

[pete harrison]

Not quite what you are asking by William Harris and Son of Bumblehole built 6 riveted iron purpose built pleasure boats in 1960/61 

[Ray T]

Would this be a contender? From Tom Chaplin's a short history of the NARROW BOAT.

[alan_fincher]

1 minute ago, pete harrison said:

Not quite what you are asking by William Harris and Son of Bumblehole built 6 riveted iron purpose built pleasure boats in 1960/61 

Yes, I thought I might get that answer!

It's a perfectly acceptable one of course, and I did wonder if I should have added the word "welded" to my question.

I assume you may know names for the Harris boats, but do you know their ultimate fate, and which survive.

Another genuine question then - presumably "William Harris & Son" are what became "Harris Brothers"?  In which case, assuming the naming of the business moved down a generation, I'm wondering why it wasn't William Harris and Sons?

[ditchcrawler]

Springer's were built in the late 60s https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.rec.waterways/RrQL7OOnV-U

[alan_fincher]

.... as did boats like this, (BW operated several boats with a similar hull)

9 minutes ago, Ray T said:

Would this be a contender? From Tom Chaplin's a short history of the NARROW BOAT.

Typed up a long answer then lost it.

The brief version then.

Early Harborough's were actually wooden not steel, although I think the counter wrapper was in steel.

I don't lnow exact history of Harbotoughs, but suspect both the type of hire cruiser hull I have pictured above, and indeed Springers pre-date them by several years.

[MtB]

Yes when I first took an interest in narrow boats specifically in 1976 Springer were already firmly established in the market.

In addition to them selling complete hulls I remember them advertising kits of flat plates cut to shape for the DIY builder to weld together with stick welder available from Halfords. I remember seriously considering buying one of those kits, but was defeated by not knowing how to form the plates into bends.

[David Schweizer]

The 1967 IWA Rally programme has adverts from several companies building steel pleasure narrowboats - Harborough Marine, The Whitberry Company, Anglo Welsh, and Shropshire Union Cruisers. As these companies imply that they are already building, it is reasonable to assume the steel Leisure narrowboats were brin gbuilt commercially by the mid 1960's.

[Keeping Up]

Our Harborough boat "Thistle" was built in 1969 with a steel Hull and GRP top, to be one of the first boats in their new fleet at Trevor where she was named "Worcester". When we met Giles Baker one day on our travels (as we were being towed because our rudder had fallen off) he recognised some of the features and told us that it was the 8th steel boat that they had built, and that their hulls had been wooden before that.

He also told us that for the wooden hulls they had created a new bow shape by simply pulling on sheets of plywood until they fitted the existing hull sides. When they started using steel they had merely replicated this in steel sheet - hence their uniquely distinctive high bows.

[alan_fincher]

2 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

The 1967 IWA Rally programme has adverts from several companies building steel pleasure narrowboats - Harborough Marine, The Whitberry Company, Anglo Welsh, and Shropshire Union Cruisers. As these companies imply that they are already building, it is reasonable to assume the steel Leisure narrowboats were brin gbuilt commercially by the mid 1960's.

Curious.

I wouldn't have said Harborough were actually building in steel as early as 1967, (supported by Allan's post above that says No 8 wasn't until 1969).

Also I would have said Anglo Welsh used Harborough boats, and would not at that time have been building their own.

However, as I say, it pre-dates my active involvement with the cut, so I'm looking to be educated.

Does the 1967 rally program have actual pictures of their offerings?

[Keeping Up]

31 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

.... as did boats like this, (BW operated several boats with a similar hull)

 

Presumably that is Wyvern Shipping's Pandora? We were her first ever hirers at Easter 1969

[alan_fincher]

2 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

Presumably that is Wyvern Shipping's Pandora? We were her first ever hirers at Easter 1969

Bad luck!

Just joking, really, but from my memory, it handled less well than a cow on roller skates! My least favourite of the fleet when I had a Saturday job there.

[David Schweizer]

39 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Curious.

I wouldn't have said Harborough were actually building in steel as early as 1967, (supported by Allan's post above that says No 8 wasn't until 1969).

Also I would have said Anglo Welsh used Harborough boats, and would not at that time have been building their own.

However, as I say, it pre-dates my active involvement with the cut, so I'm looking to be educated.

Does the 1967 rally program have actual pictures of their offerings?

The drawings of the Anglo Welsh and Harborough boats are identical, and the text does not actually state that they are of steel construction. However the Whitberry Company advert clearly stes that the hull is constructed of 1/4" welded steel plate with a superstructure to the customer's requirements. The advert includes a photo, which I will attempt to copy and post tomorrow.

The programme also contains an advertisement from M (Malcolm?) Braine at Norton Canes which states that they "shipwright" both wooden and steel canal boats and that both new and used caal boats are always available (no Photos)

I was actually at the 1967 Leicester Rally, but cannot remember any new Narrowboats being displayed.

Edited November 11, 2017 by David Schweizer

[dmr]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

Yes, I thought I might get that answer!

It's a perfectly acceptable one of course, and I did wonder if I should have added the word "welded" to my question.

I assume you may know names for the Harris boats, but do you know their ultimate fate, and which survive.

Another genuine question then - presumably "William Harris & Son" are what became "Harris Brothers"?  In which case, assuming the naming of the business moved down a generation, I'm wondering why it wasn't William Harris and Sons?

There was a rather nice old boat moored at Lyons yard (North Stratford) when we passed in the spring, I think it was riveted, and was sign-written as built at Bumble Hole. Could this be one of them?

There was also a "Stretch" in progress on a plastic cruiser, interesting stuff to look at everytime we pass.

.............Dave 

[Keeping Up]

7 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

The drawings of the Anglo Welsh and Harborough boats are identical, and the text does not actually state that they are of steel construction.

They didn't become Anglo Welsh until later. In 1969, according to our boat's original paperwork, they were still called Mid England Narrow Boats, and were based at Market Harborough.

[ditchcrawler]

11 minutes ago, dmr said:

There was a rather nice old boat moored at Lyons yard (North Stratford) when we passed in the spring, I think it was riveted, and was sign-written as built at Bumble Hole. Could this be one of them?

There was also a "Stretch" in progress on a plastic cruiser, interesting stuff to look at everytime we pass.

.............Dave 

This one Dave 

[dmr]

That's the one, we took a photo too but its still in the big unsorted photo place.

We've only stopped at Lyons once but they still wave everytime we pass, good friendly place.

.............Dave

[Ogwr]

Shropshire Union Cruisers from Morbury exhibited a cruiser stern steel hull at the IWA rally in 1966 at Marple Harborough Marine were building new  boats in Oak and exhibited +Pusat Tusek+ there.  Nalcolm Braines first steel hulls were built by Halmo Engineering a company that did vehicle chassis alterations but had C>H. Taplin as a director. the first going to the Leicester rally in 1967.

[Captain Pegg]

I can guarantee it's not later than 1968 but I suspect the first was earlier.

JP

[Ogwr]

I also beleive Pimblotts of Northwich built a steel narrow cruiser in the late 1960=s

[Rose Narrowboats]

Pimblott's built a number of steel boats for the BWB hire fleet in the late 60's, and the steel cabins had a lot in common with "Vigilante", an all steel all welded boat built by Yarwoods in 1960. It's the earliest example of an all welded, fully cabined boat I can think of, but technically doesn't count in this context as it was built as an inspection launch.

[Movin' on]

Just some ramblings for you to ponder...................

I started boating in the late 60's at "Blue Line" in Braunston when (Maid Boats and Wyvern Shipping were the main players) with a Teal 22 convertible and then in my dads Brand New Brooklands Aviation Dolphin 24 and at the time the contenders for our affections were Harborough Marine and Springer (and Rugby Boatbuilders?).

A couple of  leisure boats I remember were wooden topped (possibly wooden hulls) one called Mai Arde, which was for sale at Braunston when we bought the Teal 22 and I saw recently at Lichfield CC, one called Canada? the near twin of which was for sale at Charity Dock last time I came past, and one really nice probably 45ft centre cockpit steel with a Dawncraft style cantilevered roof called Nanshe??? which I saw app 3 years ago. 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2017 by Halsey

[X Alan W]

8 hours ago, Ogwr said:

Shropshire Union Cruisers from Norbury exhibited a cruiser stern steel hull at the IWA rally in 1966 at Marple Harborough Marine were building new  boats in Oak and exhibited +Pusat Tusek+ there.  Nalcolm Braines first steel hulls were built by Halmo Engineering a company that did vehicle chassis alterations but had C>H. Taplin as a director. the first going to the Leicester rally in 1967.

The SUC boat was steel hull "Cutlass"brand name with a wood cabin I fitted the engine,one of the first SR2's it was built for an early canal enthusiast Dr Roger ? & on delivery named "Rose of Sharron this was the 2nd RofS  the original was a ply cruiser the Original "Cutlass" hulls had a square transom stern with just rounded off corners the later class had a rounded stern & the explorer class had GRP cabins the later hulls were built at Norbury by Seamus Walsh ,the originals were built by SUC director John Stothert

[alan_fincher]

Some interesting information here, thanks everybody for their memories.

I must admit I have never knowingly heard of the Whitberry Company. The boat listing shows no boats built by them though, so perhaps none have survived?  Or is there another more commonly used name for them we would recognise?

I had forgotten it was Isaac Pimblott that built those ungainly transom sterned BWB hire boats. I wonder if Wyvwern's "Pandora" was also by them, as it was visually very similar.

Shropshire Union Cruisers does seem to be a major contender as perhaps one of the earliest builders of welded steel leisure narrow boat hulls in large numbers.  It would be interesting to know when they produced their first.

I had no idea that any bespoke new Malcolm Braine boat was ever built by any other firm, so I've learnt a lot from this thread already.

One mystery uncovered in this thread is David finding reference to Anglo Welsh as early as 1967.  As Allan suggests, I thought they started life as Mid England Narrowboats, which he also identifies as being their name as late as 1969.  Curious!  Does anybody know the story there, please?

Edited November 12, 2017 by alan_fincher

[Ogwr]

Mot to forget Dennis Cooper pf CTS also at Norton Canes also late 60/s with his Tug Style.