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hello all getting into boating


Stephen Stacey

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35 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

I can travel for free on trains.

I'm a retired BR employee and retain my Staff Travel privileges.

Exactly my dads a train driver who started back in the 70s with BR there for  i have staff "priv" boxes and also priv rate fare. Just like im sure you do.

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On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 19:13, Stephen Stacey said:

I know one thing I would like to do it go though the Harecastle tunnel on the Trent and Mersey and I could never imagine the Viking 23 being able to go though there as well other tunnel of similar size. So 100% my mind is set its a narrow boat for me.

Poor old grp cruisers.......   Not for everyone, but ideal for many and more than capable of zipping through the Harecastle tunnel. I have skippered mine through at least six tunnels this Summer alone, one of which was indeed the Harecastle and it was great fun!

Steel narrow boats do have some advantages over grp, particularly if you intend to live aboard, because they are often better insulated and so easier to keep warm in the winter. However, the insulation is very thin, usually about an inch of polyurethane foam or a similar thickness of polystyrene, and nothing at all below 'floor' level. Grp cruisers often have little or no insulation, but being in general smaller than narrow boats, there is much less to heat, so they warm up quickly and for spring, summer and autumn use are easy and inexpensive to heat.   


The owners of steel narrowboats will often say that grp cruisers are not tough enough on the canals when negotiating locks and tunnels, but I have never suffered more than a scratch in all my years of cruising in grp boats. Remember that grp cruisers are smaller and lighter than narrow boats: They are more responsive to steer, they stop faster and have much greater acceleration than lumbering 15 tonne steel narrowboats. This superior manoeuvrability means that staying out of trouble is easy.


Grp cruisers also often benefit from a 'V' profile hull, which is not only easier (and cheaper) to push through the water, but this also helps with directional stability when steering. It is also possible to moor closer to shallow bank sides than you can with 'slab' sided narrow boats. 


Grp cruisers are cheaper to buy: They waste no internal space on a forward 'well deck', this space being fully occupied by a huge double bed that any narrowboat would be jealous of. Our bed is more than 6 feet wide and infinitely more comfortable than any narrowboat 'double' bed that I have ever come across. In addition, the larger grp cruisers have centre cockpits and aft cabins, so there is no wasted space at the stern as there is with narrowboats. For this reason, in order to have the volume of internal space that you might find in a given size of grp cruiser, you would need to buy a considerably larger narrowboat. Just look inside a 30ft example of both if you doubt what I say.


Remember too, that a shorter boat is cheaper to licence and cheaper to moor and can often fit into that last available gap in a prime canalside location. Also, grp boats do not need to be hauled out and 'blacked' every 2-3 years, giving a huge maintenance saving as well. I should also dispell the myth that grp boats should winter ashore; this is just not true. They are absolutely strong enough to survive severe winters afloat and their hulls certanly don't need to 'dry out'. 


With every year that passes, the steel hulls of narrowboats are thinning due to oxidation (rust), eventually resulting in the need for patching or complete overplating; a very expensive operation. This problem is compounded by the fact that the bottom plates of narrowboats are rarely blacked, the excuse often given for which is that there is insufficient oxygen 2ft down to allow rusting. There is slightly less oxygen at that depth, but there is more than enough to allow oxidation, otherwise fish couldn't survive! 


The other serious problem with steel craft is that of electrolytic and cathodic erosion; the sometimes severe pitting that can dangerously compromise the integrity of metal hulls; steel, iron and even worse aluminium. Grp hulls suffer no such problems, although a small, inexpensive shaft anode will be need to protect their propeller which is likely to be made of bronze.


Osmosis is a minor condition that can occasionally affect grp hulls, but it is just a surface bubbling of the outer gel coat, does not make a boat leak, is not structural and has never caused any vessel to sink... unlike the rusting of steel hulls!

 

Grp cruisers also seem much roomier than steel narrow boats. This is partly because cruisers tend to have much larger windows, giving much better views from the saloon. Also, with centre cockpit cruisers, you aren't walking through one cabin to get to the next, so it doesn't feel like you are living in a corridor.

Centre cockpit cruisers also offer a lot more protection from inclement weather, especially with the windscreen and cockpit tent in place.

 

Having said all that, there are some absolute 'musts' when chosing your new boat:

If you intend to cruise any distance, you really must have a diesel inboard engine: Only diesel fuel is readily available at the canal side and you may have to walk miles to find a roadside petrol station if you have an outboard motor. Also, it would be dangerous to carry large amounts of petrol on board.

Diesel engines are extremely fuel efficient: My 25hp Vetus diesel uses 0.6l per hour at canal cruising speeds in my 30ft cruiser, that's just 3 litres of fuel in a 5 hour cruising day and about a month's cruising from my built-in tank.

As I write in 2017, diesel at the canal side can be obtained for about half the price of petrol from a petrol station. If the diesel you buy is to be used for propulsion then there will be an additional bit of 'road duty' to pay. This Website usefully compares canalside diesel prices:   http://diesel.fibrefactory.co.uk/


You should also insist on a shaft drive rather than a 'z' drive: There is much less to go wrong and repairing/reconditioning a 'z' drive can be hugely expensive. 'Z' drives protrude from the stern of cruisers and are therefore vulnerable to collision. Their aluminium alloy construction can also suffer serious corrosion over time.


Whether you chose steel or grp, you MUST have a weed hatch above the propeller, as you will occasionally pick up rope or plastic that will halt your progress, and without one you are stuck; unless you can swim!


To extend your cruising season you will need a heater and those that burn diesel are cheapest to operate. Also, if you intend to spend more than a few days on board, then you will want hot water from a calorifier and a proper shower or even better a 'wet room'. You will also need a gas cooker and if possible a refrigerator, all of which a well appointed grp cruiser could offer. 

You might have to pay around £20k for a really nice and well equipped 30ft grp narrow beam cruiser, but a steel narrowboat with as much useful internal space may be 40ft long and will cost you a great deal more to buy, maintain, licence, moor and operate.


If you fancy a grp cruiser then go for it: I've done over 600 miles in mine this year alone and at no point have I wished that I was in a steel narowboat.

 

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21 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Poor old grp cruisers.......   Not for everyone, but ideal for many and more than capable of zipping through the Harecastle tunnel. I have skippered mine through at least six tunnels this Summer alone, one of which was indeed the Harecastle and it was great fun!

Steel narrow boats do have some advantages over grp, particularly if you intend to live aboard, because they are often better insulated and so easier to keep warm in the winter. However, the insulation is very thin, usually about an inch of polyurethane foam or a similar thickness of polystyrene, and nothing at all below 'floor' level. Grp cruisers often have little or no insulation, but being in general smaller than narrow boats, there is much less to heat, so they warm up quickly and for spring, summer and autumn use are easy and inexpensive to heat.   


The owners of steel narrowboats will often say that grp cruisers are not tough enough on the canals when negotiating locks and tunnels, but I have never suffered more than a scratch in all my years of cruising in grp boats. Remember that grp cruisers are smaller and lighter than narrow boats: They are more responsive to steer, they stop faster and have much greater acceleration than lumbering 15 tonne steel narrowboats. This superior manoeuvrability means that staying out of trouble is easy.


Grp cruisers also often benefit from a 'V' profile hull, which is not only easier (and cheaper) to push through the water, but this also helps with directional stability when steering. It is also possible to moor closer to shallow bank sides than you can with 'slab' sided narrow boats. 


Grp cruisers are cheaper to buy: They waste no internal space on a forward 'well deck', this space being fully occupied by a huge double bed that any narrowboat would be jealous of. Our bed is more than 6 feet wide and infinitely more comfortable than any narrowboat 'double' bed that I have ever come across. In addition, the larger grp cruisers have centre cockpits and aft cabins, so there is no wasted space at the stern as there is with narrowboats. For this reason, in order to have the volume of internal space that you might find in a given size of grp cruiser, you would need to buy a considerably larger narrowboat. Just look inside a 30ft example of both if you doubt what I say.


Remember too, that a shorter boat is cheaper to licence and cheaper to moor and can often fit into that last available gap in a prime canalside location. Also, grp boats do not need to be hauled out and 'blacked' every 2-3 years, giving a huge maintenance saving as well. I should also dispell the myth that grp boats should winter ashore; this is just not true. They are absolutely strong enough to survive severe winters afloat and their hulls certanly don't need to 'dry out'. 


With every year that passes, the steel hulls of narrowboats are thinning due to oxidation (rust), eventually resulting in the need for patching or complete overplating; a very expensive operation. This problem is compounded by the fact that the bottom plates of narrowboats are rarely blacked, the excuse often given for which is that there is insufficient oxygen 2ft down to allow rusting. There is slightly less oxygen at that depth, but there is more than enough to allow oxidation, otherwise fish couldn't survive! 


The other serious problem with steel craft is that of electrolytic and cathodic erosion; the sometimes severe pitting that can dangerously compromise the integrity of metal hulls; steel, iron and even worse aluminium. Grp hulls suffer no such problems, although a small, inexpensive shaft anode will be need to protect their propeller which is likely to be made of bronze.


Osmosis is a minor condition that can occasionally affect grp hulls, but it is just a surface bubbling of the outer gel coat, does not make a boat leak, is not structural and has never caused any vessel to sink... unlike the rusting of steel hulls!

 

Grp cruisers also seem much roomier than steel narrow boats. This is partly because cruisers tend to have much larger windows, giving much better views from the saloon. Also, with centre cockpit cruisers, you aren't walking through one cabin to get to the next, so it doesn't feel like you are living in a corridor.

Centre cockpit cruisers also offer a lot more protection from inclement weather, especially with the windscreen and cockpit tent in place.

 

Having said all that, there are some absolute 'musts' when chosing your new boat:

If you intend to cruise any distance, you really must have a diesel inboard engine: Only diesel fuel is readily available at the canal side and you may have to walk miles to find a roadside petrol station if you have an outboard motor. Also, it would be dangerous to carry large amounts of petrol on board.

Diesel engines are extremely fuel efficient: My 25hp Vetus diesel uses 0.6l per hour at canal cruising speeds in my 30ft cruiser, that's just 3 litres of fuel in a 5 hour cruising day and about a month's cruising from my built-in tank.

As I write in 2017, diesel at the canal side can be obtained for about half the price of petrol from a petrol station. If the diesel you buy is to be used for propulsion then there will be an additional bit of 'road duty' to pay. This Website usefully compares canalside diesel prices:   http://diesel.fibrefactory.co.uk/


You should also insist on a shaft drive rather than a 'z' drive: There is much less to go wrong and repairing/reconditioning a 'z' drive can be hugely expensive. 'Z' drives protrude from the stern of cruisers and are therefore vulnerable to collision. Their aluminium alloy construction can also suffer serious corrosion over time.


Whether you chose steel or grp, you MUST have a weed hatch above the propeller, as you will occasionally pick up rope or plastic that will halt your progress, and without one you are stuck; unless you can swim!


To extend your cruising season you will need a heater and those that burn diesel are cheapest to operate. Also, if you intend to spend more than a few days on board, then you will want hot water from a calorifier and a proper shower or even better a 'wet room'. You will also need a gas cooker and if possible a refrigerator, all of which a well appointed grp cruiser could offer. 

You might have to pay around £20k for a really nice and well equipped 30ft grp narrow beam cruiser, but a steel narrowboat with as much useful internal space may be 40ft long and will cost you a great deal more to buy, maintain, licence, moor and operate.


If you fancy a grp cruiser then go for it: I've done over 600 miles in mine this year alone and at no point have I wished that I was in a steel narowboat.

 

Pretty reasonable summary. Just a couple of points to note:

1) Insulating a GRP cruiser is very easy and inexpensive using silver-bubble-wrap stuff behind the panels..

2) It is not only dangerous to store petrol but illegal (above 30 litres).

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4 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

If the diesel you buy is to be used for propulsion then there will be an additional bit of 'road duty' to pay 

I never realised the propulsion tax was for road duty, well that settles it, from now on I will declare 0% for propulsion until such time as I use my boat on a road:D

Edited by Bewildered
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  • 5 months later...
On ‎05‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 13:37, Bargebuilder said:

Poor old grp cruisers.......   Not for everyone, but ideal for many and more than capable of zipping through the Harecastle tunnel. I have skippered mine through at least six tunnels this Summer alone, one of which was indeed the Harecastle and it was great fun!

Steel narrow boats do have some advantages over grp, particularly if you intend to live aboard, because they are often better insulated and so easier to keep warm in the winter. However, the insulation is very thin, usually about an inch of polyurethane foam or a similar thickness of polystyrene, and nothing at all below 'floor' level. Grp cruisers often have little or no insulation, but being in general smaller than narrow boats, there is much less to heat, so they warm up quickly and for spring, summer and autumn use are easy and inexpensive to heat.   


The owners of steel narrowboats will often say that grp cruisers are not tough enough on the canals when negotiating locks and tunnels, but I have never suffered more than a scratch in all my years of cruising in grp boats. Remember that grp cruisers are smaller and lighter than narrow boats: They are more responsive to steer, they stop faster and have much greater acceleration than lumbering 15 tonne steel narrowboats. This superior manoeuvrability means that staying out of trouble is easy.


Grp cruisers also often benefit from a 'V' profile hull, which is not only easier (and cheaper) to push through the water, but this also helps with directional stability when steering. It is also possible to moor closer to shallow bank sides than you can with 'slab' sided narrow boats. 


Grp cruisers are cheaper to buy: They waste no internal space on a forward 'well deck', this space being fully occupied by a huge double bed that any narrowboat would be jealous of. Our bed is more than 6 feet wide and infinitely more comfortable than any narrowboat 'double' bed that I have ever come across. In addition, the larger grp cruisers have centre cockpits and aft cabins, so there is no wasted space at the stern as there is with narrowboats. For this reason, in order to have the volume of internal space that you might find in a given size of grp cruiser, you would need to buy a considerably larger narrowboat. Just look inside a 30ft example of both if you doubt what I say.


Remember too, that a shorter boat is cheaper to licence and cheaper to moor and can often fit into that last available gap in a prime canalside location. Also, grp boats do not need to be hauled out and 'blacked' every 2-3 years, giving a huge maintenance saving as well. I should also dispell the myth that grp boats should winter ashore; this is just not true. They are absolutely strong enough to survive severe winters afloat and their hulls certanly don't need to 'dry out'. 


With every year that passes, the steel hulls of narrowboats are thinning due to oxidation (rust), eventually resulting in the need for patching or complete overplating; a very expensive operation. This problem is compounded by the fact that the bottom plates of narrowboats are rarely blacked, the excuse often given for which is that there is insufficient oxygen 2ft down to allow rusting. There is slightly less oxygen at that depth, but there is more than enough to allow oxidation, otherwise fish couldn't survive! 


The other serious problem with steel craft is that of electrolytic and cathodic erosion; the sometimes severe pitting that can dangerously compromise the integrity of metal hulls; steel, iron and even worse aluminium. Grp hulls suffer no such problems, although a small, inexpensive shaft anode will be need to protect their propeller which is likely to be made of bronze.


Osmosis is a minor condition that can occasionally affect grp hulls, but it is just a surface bubbling of the outer gel coat, does not make a boat leak, is not structural and has never caused any vessel to sink... unlike the rusting of steel hulls!

 

Grp cruisers also seem much roomier than steel narrow boats. This is partly because cruisers tend to have much larger windows, giving much better views from the saloon. Also, with centre cockpit cruisers, you aren't walking through one cabin to get to the next, so it doesn't feel like you are living in a corridor.

Centre cockpit cruisers also offer a lot more protection from inclement weather, especially with the windscreen and cockpit tent in place.

 

Having said all that, there are some absolute 'musts' when chosing your new boat:

If you intend to cruise any distance, you really must have a diesel inboard engine: Only diesel fuel is readily available at the canal side and you may have to walk miles to find a roadside petrol station if you have an outboard motor. Also, it would be dangerous to carry large amounts of petrol on board.

Diesel engines are extremely fuel efficient: My 25hp Vetus diesel uses 0.6l per hour at canal cruising speeds in my 30ft cruiser, that's just 3 litres of fuel in a 5 hour cruising day and about a month's cruising from my built-in tank.

As I write in 2017, diesel at the canal side can be obtained for about half the price of petrol from a petrol station. If the diesel you buy is to be used for propulsion then there will be an additional bit of 'road duty' to pay. This Website usefully compares canalside diesel prices:   http://diesel.fibrefactory.co.uk/


You should also insist on a shaft drive rather than a 'z' drive: There is much less to go wrong and repairing/reconditioning a 'z' drive can be hugely expensive. 'Z' drives protrude from the stern of cruisers and are therefore vulnerable to collision. Their aluminium alloy construction can also suffer serious corrosion over time.


Whether you chose steel or grp, you MUST have a weed hatch above the propeller, as you will occasionally pick up rope or plastic that will halt your progress, and without one you are stuck; unless you can swim!


To extend your cruising season you will need a heater and those that burn diesel are cheapest to operate. Also, if you intend to spend more than a few days on board, then you will want hot water from a calorifier and a proper shower or even better a 'wet room'. You will also need a gas cooker and if possible a refrigerator, all of which a well appointed grp cruiser could offer. 

You might have to pay around £20k for a really nice and well equipped 30ft grp narrow beam cruiser, but a steel narrowboat with as much useful internal space may be 40ft long and will cost you a great deal more to buy, maintain, licence, moor and operate.


If you fancy a grp cruiser then go for it: I've done over 600 miles in mine this year alone and at no point have I wished that I was in a steel narowboat.

 

Sorry to reopen my 5 mouth old topic again :) 

Hi sorry I been away for 5 mouths got carried away doing normal life things and forgot I had even signed up in tell I randomly just remember this night. Glad I did remember though as your above post has sold me on getting a GRP 20K for a 30FT is in budget for me. Do you mind me asking what make/model your cruiser is I want to get an idea of what one going though Harecastle is like but cannot for the life of me find any videos on YouTube of one going though. You said you have done it in your cruiser so I am sure if I see a picture of it (not your one but just the same make and model) to get an idea of height I will be able to picture it.

Anyway it would be handy to know the make/model of your cruiser as it then give me a starting point of what I should be looking for who knows I might find the one same as yours sale and end up buying it if I like the look of it :D

..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Going back to my other more order posts I am finally going to get that kayak from Argos (the intex K2) and I will also be arranging that visit down to whilton Marina to have a look around sure it will mostly be narrow boats but I am sure there are some cruisers there that I can look at and also it will be good to see in person what will really be better for me but at the moment as I said above it looks like it is going to be a cruiser.

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