hello all getting into boating

[Stephen Stacey]

Hello,

I have recently really got interested in boating and have now decided to join the forum after having a look around as guest. I am 20 and still living at home fresh out of college (studied aviation) although I am currently part way though the interview stage for a job on the railways. So its going to be a good few years before I move out. However when I do I am very keen to buy a boat and live on it the idea of a flat or even a house just does not really appeal to me at all. Now I am very new to this and so far most of what I know has come from watching CruisingTheCut on Youtube. I am already looking into what I would need to save up in order to archive my dream but still have a few questions 1 about what sort of boat is the most practical for cursing everywhere on the waterways and the other regarding kayaking. 

1. What's the best sort of boat for the waterways I am in Watford (Herts) and intend to my permeant resident mooring/Merina somewhere in the local area (Rickmansworth or Croxley) as working on the railways I need to be close to London still. This means I will spend most of my time on the Grand Union when I am out Cruising.

I like the more modern boat look of the canal/river cruisers been especially looking at the Viking 23 however practically is important to me so are they limited on where they can with regards to bridges and tunnels and locks I am interested in these boats as I see a lot passing though Cassiobury Park with them but if they are not a go anywhere boat then I will have to go for the narrow boat option. Also what are the cruisers like to live on of course a narrow boat one can have a proper bed in it and living facilities. Is a cruiser ok as a permeant residents like narrow boats and can they accommodate a proper bed and galley. If a cruiser is not ideal then I will go for the traditional narrow boat as the main thing I know I want is practically both in regards to living on board and also traveling around the network.

2. In the mean time wise still at home and not being anywhere near a position to buy a boat I intend on speeding my time around the canal often cycling down the Ebury way to Batchworth and watching the boats there I also just found out they do boat trips and am considering volunteering there as crew in order to get use to the ways of the canal(already noticed everyone is a friendly bunch often getting friendly hello or acknowledgment from boaters as I cycling pass) . However in the mean time I am thinking about getting into kayaking something I been meaning to do for the pass 2 years. Is an inflatable kayak suitable for the canal I'm think about getting the Intex K2 from Argos just as a start so any tips on kayaking the grand union or anything I need to know about before setting off would be handy and most welcome.

Thanks for helping me out with my questions I am looking very forward spending my time on the cut in the future and cannot not wait.

Stephen

 

 

 

 

 

[Athy]

Welcome, Stephen.

We have members here who have knowledge and experience of many types of boat, and I'm sure that some of them will be along soon to offer the benefit of their advice.

[mark99]

You could go down a bit further to Coppermill Lock, Harefield and see if they want you to volunteer on the Hillingdon Boats.

[Peter X]

If you can afford it I'd say the best sort of boat for your purposes might be a steel narrow boat, available in various lengths up to just over 70 feet, that being the length which will fit though about 60% of the connected inland waterways. If under about 57 feet long a narrow boat will fit everywhere (except one or two small insignificant bits); over 57 feet it's too long for various northern canals but you'd be fine in the south. A boat in London tends to sell for more than it would in the Midlands or north, but unlike houses they can be moved, so do cast your net widely when looking.

The Jim Shead map summarises where the wide and narrow waterways go:

http://www.jim-shead.com/waterways/mwp.php?wpage=Inland-Waterways-of-England.htm

A Viking 23 will fit everywhere because it's designed for inland waterways; crucially it has a narrow beam (7 feet or less) so it will fit through all the Midlands canals, and looks to me as if it has a low enough air draught to fit under the bridges and tunnels. The height and shape of these varies so much that judging what boat will fit is a very inexact science!

People can and do live aboard GRP boats, the big advantage being that they're cheaper. But bear in mind the snags: many are bought for summer use and have little or no heating and insulation, though there are ways of fitting it. Also, many have petrol driven outboard motors, and it's harder to find petrol along the canals than diesel. Finally, steel will withstand impacts better than GRP. The usual practise when sharing a wide lock is that the steel boat goes in before the GRP boat and out after it, so that it can be held on a bollard and not squash its neighbour against the far wall.

[dmr]

Boaters are mostly a friendly bunch and love chatting about their boats. Get out a walk up and down the cut, chat to boaters and see if you can get a look inside a few of them.

You will likely conclude that plastic cruisers are good hobby boats, especially on rivers, but not ideal liveaboards.

Steel widebeams make the best residence by far, but most of the best canals are narrow.

Narrowboats are very nice places to live, much better than a house, and can do the lovely narrow canals.

............Dave

[Stephen Stacey]

I though the narrow boat would of been the answer rather than a GRP although I do want a long one around the 50 to 60ft mark do me its a shame really found a nice boat with the own mooring for sale in Croxley for 30K (which is the max I want to spend). But unless I win the lottery tonight Its not going to be mine anytime soon.

dmr next time I am cycling alone the cut to Batchworth or Cassiobury I will indeed stop and have a chat with any boaters who are around the Cassiobury lock is a popular place on a nice dry day so may wait around there for a bit. I have looked at wide beams when riding alone the cut and yes they do look lovely and I would love one but price and practicality are a big thing for me and as you say the best canals are narrow and so a wide beam is not very practical.

I know one thing I would like to do it go though the Harecastle tunnel on the Trent and Mersey and I could never imagine the Viking 23 being able to go though there as well other tunnel of similar size. So 100% my mind is set its a narrow boat for me.

Now any advice on kayaking the Grand union I don't want to be that one person who gets in the way of the motor powered boats and annoy anyone.

Stephen

 

 

[dmr]

Harecastle is quite dramatic, I did it last week. It really does get very very low in the middle.

If you fancy a 60 foot NB then you are not going to be happy on a little plastic cruiser.

..........Dave

[Stephen Stacey]

From what I seen on Youtube it does look rather dramatic and interesting and very good point indeed on the little plastic cruiser topic . 60 footer with a cruiser stern is the answer I suffered from co-ordination problems when I was younger (they improved a lot now though) and so having the extra room to steer from will reassure me that I'm not going to fall off or give me that unnerving hanging on the end feeling that I feel the traditional stern narrow boat would give me. Also just in case anyone was going to bring it up now that I said about my old co-ordination problem I will be fine doing locks single handed so long as I walk across slowly and there is something to hang on to.

Of course I never been on a narrow boat yet so once I have been on a traditional stern NB I may feel that I will be fine however from what I seen from images there really is not a lot of room back there so at the moment I'm looking at NB was a bigger stern.

Stephen 

[dmr]

Cruiser sterns are very popular but a trad stern has some big advantages for a liveaboard boat, maximising the interior space is one of them.

If you have co-ordination problems or are a just a bit wobbly on your feet then a trad stern is the way to go, with a semi trad as a poor second best. With a cruiser stern you are right out in the open. With a trad you stand inside the back doorway so are surrounded by boat on three sides and can sort of wedge yourself into the corner to get nice and secure. A trad is really good in Harecastle as you have to crouch down and bending your knees whilst leaning an arm on the hatch cover (slide) is a secure way of doing this, it also gives a good point of reference as to where your head is going to be in relation to the tunnel roof. I personally would not fancy doing Harecastle on a cruiser stern.

..............Dave

[Stephen Stacey]

Just shows what little knowledge I currently have. Looks as if the trad stern will be for me then it is deceiving looking at images of it on google by the sound of it and I am yet to see a moored up boat on the cut with the hatch open most seem to either be shut up completely or use the side hatch for a entrance so was unable to see that you stand on the doorway. Thanks for that helpful advice on that one. 

Stephen

 

[ditchcrawler]

26 minutes ago, Stephen Stacey said:

Just shows what little knowledge I currently have. Looks as if the trad stern will be for me then it is deceiving looking at images of it on google by the sound of it and I am yet to see a moored up boat on the cut with the hatch open most seem to either be shut up completely or use the side hatch for a entrance so was unable to see that you stand on the doorway. Thanks for that helpful advice on that one. 

Stephen

 

That is because most people don't stand in the right place, you should be standing inside the hatch, not on the back deck like 90% of boaters do. The first one is correct the second one wrong

 

photos from Alamy on the web

Edited October 26, 2017 by ditchcrawler

[Stephen Stacey]

ahhh that will be fine then a trad stern will be fine for me then and yes so far I have only ever seen people stand as in photo number 2 hence my worries about falling due to my co-ordination but there is no risk of that as long as I stand as in no 1 so I am happy with that thanks for the pics they was a great help and reassurance for me.

[Lily Rose]

I would second what dmr says about trad sterns. That's what my boat has and it definitely doesn't give me an "unnerving hanging on the end feeling". Quite the opposite in fact.

I don't stand in the tiller arc though, unlike many I see.

I do sometimes stand just inside the hatch area, usually due to bad weather. Mostly I stand just outside it. I can get away with this though, being a skinny bugger. I can easily ensure that the tiller passes freely behind me so I won't get swept overboard if the rudder hits something.

[Bewildered]

I would recommend visiting a marina that has plenty of boats for sale and take a look at each type, trad, semi trad and cruiser. Also take a look at different length boats to see what layout you prefer or need.

when we bought our boat the type of stern didn't really matter to us but we did know we wanted a permanent bed, a dinette and a living area we could have proper chairs in. We didn't want to have to convert a seat into our main bed every night and we didn't want to eat dinner off trays on our laps, we also find built in seating uncomfortable after sitting for to long. This meant a longer boat.

some 57ft boat manage to fit all this in but short ones would tend (unless very cleverly built)  to miss one or more of these things out. Buying a boat is always going to be a compromise between what you want and what you can realistically afford. Some of the really short boats will have a toilet/shower room, a galley area and a dining room that is also your living room and bedroom.

 

if you go somewhere like Whilton Marina and register with them you can pick one of the boats for sale and they will give you the keys so yo can have a look around it, once you are done pick another one. If nothing else it is an interesting day out.

[Stephen Stacey]

Bewildered - everything u said in your 2nd paragraph is exactly what I will be looking for in my boat so its good to hear that you can find boats like that around. As for looking around the Marina is that something I can do right now we are looking at about 5 or so years before I will be in a position to buy a boat and am not the sort who likes to waste people's time so as much as I would love to look around the Marina now and get an idea of what I will be looking for in a few years time would it really be acceptable knowing that I have no intention of getting the boat at all. Or do boat sellers not mind this and will gladly let me do a bit of should we say window shopping .

 

 

[Peter X]

Since I began boating about five years ago I've always felt that I might be two or three years away from buying my own boat. And worried that if I do start viewing boats for sale this early I might quickly shorten that timetable and end up six months later owning one. So maybe there is such a thing as looking at boats too early.

Never having gone viewing I'm not sure just how the sellers feel about people with no interest in buying anytime soon. Maybe they'd rather not be spending time on you, especially on a busy day when there are better prospects of a sale to be found, but on the other hand maybe they can sow the seeds of a future sale. Or talk you into shortening your boat buying schedule...

[Stephen Stacey]

That is exactly what I am worried about how will the sellers feel about me not having interest in buying anytime soon. As much as I want to look I know full well that some wouldn't rather be spending time on me. As for shorting the boat buying schedule being completely honest with you as someone fresh out of college and with less than £500 in the old bank at the moment it isn't going be shorted anytime soon sadly although that could change If I get though the 2nd interview stage for this full time job on the railway.

[mark99]

23 hours ago, mark99 said:

You could go down a bit further to Coppermill Lock, Harefield and see if they want you to volunteer on the Hillingdon Boats.

 

http://www.hna.org.uk/

 

They are looking for volunteers.

[cuthound]

I visited Whilton the year before I started looking seriously, because they have more boats for sale than anyone else and don't accompany you to look at the boats, so it is a good place to form views in what you do or don't like.

Having hired for 19 years and had shared ownership boats for a further 22 years, I had a fair idea of what I liked and didn't like, but wanted the experience of seeing more boats to see how things can be arranged In practice.

I would say over 90% of Whilton's visitors are tyre kickers so wouldn't delay a visit. It is a great day out and their cafe serves excellent food.

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, cuthound said:

I would say over 90% of Whilton's visitors are tyre kickers so wouldn't delay a visit. It is a great day out and their cafe serves excellent food.

I would say over 90% of Whilton's visitors are potential boat buyers but are just window shopping at Whilton and will eventually buy from a reputable broker.

I agree  about the café.

[Machpoint005]

15 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

That is because most people don't stand in the right place, you should be standing inside the hatch, not on the back deck like 90% of boaters do. The first one is correct the second one wrong

 

photos from Alamy on the web

 

Not sure about the first one being "right" -- the steerer may be, but what about the crew???

Edited October 27, 2017 by Machpoint005
sp.

[ditchcrawler]

44 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

Not sure about the first one being "right" -- the steerer may be, but what about the crew???

I was only referring to steering because the OP had concerns standing on a small rear deck to steer, he didn't ask what he should do with the crew.

[Bewildered]

16 hours ago, Stephen Stacey said:

Bewildered - everything u said in your 2nd paragraph is exactly what I will be looking for in my boat so its good to hear that you can find boats like that around. As for looking around the Marina is that something I can do right now we are looking at about 5 or so years before I will be in a position to buy a boat and am not the sort who likes to waste people's time so as much as I would love to look around the Marina now and get an idea of what I will be looking for in a few years time would it really be acceptable knowing that I have no intention of getting the boat at all. Or do boat sellers not mind this and will gladly let me do a bit of should we say window shopping .

 

 

Stephen, the fact you don't yet have the money is irrelevant. When you view a boat there is no obligation to buy it. Whilton Marina is only an hours drive away from you. When we were looking for a boat we were looking in the £30-£40k price range, this didn't stop us having a good nosey around the boats in the £60-£80k price range. It would be different if you were to find a boat being sold privately and made arrangements for a viewing with the owner, this would be time wasting. But as said previously register with Whilton (iD need I think) then pick a boat to view , they will give you the keys and you can look around as much as you like. Take the keys back and pick another boat and another and so on until you have a good idea of what layout you want and what it is likely to cost you. As I said before it is a good day out and as other have said the cafe is good.

[Stephen Stacey]

Ok I will arrange that then and sort it all out. I don't drive yet or even have a provisional licence so it will be a train ride to Long Buckby then a 20 min cycle down to the Marina how does one register with whilton is it done though there website or on site when I arrive there.

 

[Bewildered]

I can't remember but I think you just take some ID, with proof of address. The only reason, I suspect, that you need to register is in case you bugger off with a set of keys to one of the boats. Or perhaps if a boat should go missing or get broken into or whatever, they have a record of who has had access to the keys.

do you not have any mates who drive? Give them some petrol money and an offer of breakfast in the cafe on top of a day doing something different 

Edited October 27, 2017 by Bewildered