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Canal & River Trust asks for feedback on the future of boat licensing


Ray T

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Couldn't post this any earlier as we were out on the boat.

12 October 2017
 
CANAL & RIVER TRUST ASKS FOR FEEDBACK ON THE FUTURE OF BOAT LICENSING

The Canal & River Trust is asking all boaters and boating groups to take part in the final stage of its consultation on the future of boat licensing.

The Trust has published a series of licensing options based on the feedback given by boaters in the first stages of consultation held during the spring and summer. It is now emailing or writing to all licence holders and other boating groups and organisations to invite them to take part. It will then put forward a final proposal, including details of when any changes will come into effect.

The options being consulted on include:
 
1.    Licence considerations for wider beam vessels on the waterways
2.    Consideration of the range of licence discounts offered to different customers
3.    Considerations in respect of the Prompt Payment discount
4.    Considerations for short term licences
5.    Licence considerations in respect of mooring status
6.    Impact of any changes following the consultation

Ian Rogers, customer service and operations director at the Canal & River Trust, comments: “The consultation sets out to get boaters’ views on the future of boat licensing, including how to make sure that the important financial contribution made by boaters is spread fairly across the boating community. 
 
“We’ve been pleased to see so much interest in the consultation from boaters and I’d like to thank everyone who’s taken part so far.  Now we’re asking for the entire boating community to take a look at the proposals we’ve developed as a result of these conversations and let us know their thoughts.  Nothing is set in stone and we’re still open to new ideas so we welcome any and all feedback.
 
“All our boat licence holders will receive either an email with a link to the consultation, or a letter inviting them to take part.  We want the consultation to be as accessible as possible and, for those boaters who may not have easy internet access, we can provide paper copies either by post or from our offices.
 
“I’d urge boaters to read through the proposals and tell us what they think.  We want to work together with the boating community to shape a licensing system that it simple and fair.”

Boaters have until 18 December to respond to the consultation.  After the closing date the Trust will draw up a final set of proposals to be approved by the charity’s Trustees.

More information about the boat licensing consultation, including reports from stage one and stage two, and the stage three proposals, can be found here: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/national-consultations

ENDS 

For further media requests please contact: 
Fran Read, national press officer, Canal & River Trust 
m 07796 610 427 e fran.read@canalrivertrust.org.uk 

--------------------------------------------
Fran Read
National Press Officer

M 07796 610 427
E fran.read@canalrivertrust.org.uk
W www.canalrivertrust.org.uk  
Canal & River Trust, Toll House, Delamere Terrace, London, W2 6ND 
 

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2 minutes ago, Ray T said:

Sorry, been away on boat and hardly bothered with using 't interweb.

Don't worry - The title of this thread us rather more informative than the one in which it is buried.

Unless I'm misunderstanding CRT have scored yet another own goal by launching a survey that is supposed to stop you completing it multiple times, but from everything I am hearing you actually can.

I can't believe they can't test the basics of whoever's software it is they are using before the keep doing this!

Another fexpensive consulation with a major flaw in how it's being done, it seems. :banghead:

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Followed Ray T's link, I skimmed though 2 thirds of the report. 

The early payment discount appears to be seen as positive. I point to this because another thread has been predicting it's end. 

The views concerning continuous cruising, on page 12,  are interesting, (but not suprising). 

Page 12

 ".....This idea was accompanied by the suggestion that licence fees for people without a permanent mooring should be increased, so that they make “a realistic contribution”. This latter point - about the use that continuous cruisers make of services and facilities that are paid for by home moorers - was raised frequently, primarily in the context of how best to manage congestion.

“People who have a permanent mooring somewhere - their licence should be different from people who don't. And the people who don't - they would have to choose between a commercial licence and a cruising licence.” .."

 

 

 

 

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It’s worth pointing out that as far as I’m aware there was concensus that congestion in stage 1 and stage 2 and the navigation advisory group meeting was that managing congestion was not a function of license pricing but of enforcement. Also that at the workshops and the NAG (need to read stage 1 again) license meeting the view was there should just be one license price regardless of whether home mooring or not. So the fact that it’s still in the latest consultation probably says more about the views of CRT than those it has consulted to date.

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4 hours ago, Tuscan said:

Also that at the workshops and the NAG (need to read stage 1 again) license meeting the view was there should just be one license price regardless of whether home mooring or not. So the fact that it’s still in the latest consultation probably says more about the views of CRT than those it has consulted to date.

Not sure about that.

Both NAG and many others might feel there should not be variable pricing depending on whether there is a home mooring or not, but I'm not at all sure that if you were consulting the IWA on the topic that they wouldn't be in favour.

I know of lots of people who are in favour of the idea. (For clarity, I most definitely am not!).

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NABO has now made its views clear on this.  Received this morning:

At the specially convened meeting of NAG and the boaters representatives (Mark Tizard and Alison Tuck from NABO attended) we were advised that after
getting the views of the boating organisations (stage 1) and the boaters workshops (stage 2) the only common themes emerging were the approval  to
change the way licensing was charged from length to area and to review discounts generally (keeping the prompt payment discount). We understood that
this basically was likely to form the core of the questions to be asked. There was a majority view that there should just be one license charge
(regardless of whether a boater had a home mooring or not) and it was agreed that licencing cost should not be used to address congestion but that
this was the function of enforcement. Despite being rejected at stage 1&2 this was brought up again at the special NAG meeting and again rejected
unanimously.

Despite this we note with dismay that CRT have chosen to be divisive and have included questions that suggest that the boaters should pay a different
fee dependant upon whether they have a home mooring or not, see questions 24,25 and 26. NABO's view is that there should be one license fee for use of
the waterways under CRT's control and would urge members to vote accordingly. In addition we note that CRT in question 24  is suggesting a new
license with increased fee  (in our view potentially  illegal unless there is a new act of parliament) for boats that wish to remain in one area. This
is in our view a function of creating a sustainable mix of towpath, short and long term moorings supported by enforcement.

Members can read a pdf of the consultation here.

We would URGE all members to respond to the consultation, if you have not received a copy contact customer services who will email or post one out to
you.

NABO is planning to launch a wider campaign shortly whose aims are to ensure that CRT and EA put boating and boaters at the forefront of their
thinking and actions when promoting the waterways. This will have the tag of ' As a boater are you feeling marginalised ?'

NABO Council

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17 minutes ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

Despite this we note with dismay that CRT have chosen to be divisive and have included questions that suggest that the boaters should pay a different
fee dependant upon whether they have a home mooring or not, see questions 24,25 and 26

This is certainly likely to divide boaters.

I am sure that many ‘infrequent users’ who have a home mooring will view those ‘CCing heavy users’ as costing C&RT additional money & by drawing on more of C&RTs resources (ie Water, Sewage & waste disposal) Home moorers will normally be paying these costs, in addition to their licence fees, by having it included in their marina mooring fees.

The ‘home moorers’ may think that there is the additional benefit that C&RT will not raise THEIR licence fees by as much as they would otherwise have done so.

If C&RT are really planning on ‘listening to boaters’ then their proposals may have a vast majority vote,( 5x more moorers, than CCers ?) alternatively, if they have, in fact, already decided, then it is going to happen anyway.

I don’t see us lasting more than another year on the Inland waterways, both boats are seaworthy and I think it’s time to get back to the freedom of the open seas (no licences and no BSS).

We can leave one boat in Hull, and the other in Holyhead and have both coasts covered.

 

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20 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I don’t see us lasting more than another year on the Inland waterways, both boats are seaworthy and I think it’s time to get back to the freedom of the open seas (no licences and no BSS).

We can leave one boat in Hull, and the other in Holyhead and have both coasts covered.

 

:o But Alan.........there are NO pubs at sea!!

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  • 3 weeks later...

10 November 2017 

CANAL & RIVER TRUST: “HAVE YOUR SAY IN BOAT LICENSING CONSULTATION”

 The Canal & River Trust is reminding all boaters and boating groups to take part in the final stage of its consultation on the future of boat licensing.

 Many boaters have already taken part, with over 6,000 responses to the consultation received so far.  As this is something that will affect all boaters on the Trust’s waterways, the charity wants to ensure that everyone has a chance to have their say.  Boaters have until 18 December to respond to the consultation. 

 Jon Horsfall, acting head of boating at the Canal & River Trust, comments: “There’s been a great response to the consultation, with thousands of boaters letting us know their thoughts, feelings and suggestions.  Thank you to those who have already taken part.  If you haven’t had a chance to read through the proposals yet there’s still plenty of time as the consultation is running until 18th December. 

 “It’s important to let us know what you think.  This is about the future of boat licensing – not least how to make sure that the important financial contribution made by boaters is spread fairly across the boating community both now and in the future – and you may be affected by any changes that may be made.  We want to work together with the boating community to shape a licensing system that it simple, fair and will stand the test of time.”

 The Trust has published a series of licensing options based on the feedback given by boaters in the first stages of consultation held during the spring and summer. It has written to all licence holders and other boating groups and organisations to invite them to take part. A final proposal, including details of when any changes will come into effect, will be published once the responses to this stage of the consultation have been reviewed.

 More information about the boat licensing consultation, including reports from stage one and stage two, can be found here

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/national-consultations

 ENDS

Fran Read, national press officer, Canal & River Trust
m 07796 610 427 e fran.read@canalrivertrust.org.uk

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I have two points to make.

1 The current licence is an absolute bargain for CCing liveaboards.

2 Although CaRT have been a bit underhand and very wasteful of resources in the way they have handled this we must remember that this is a consultation and not a referendum or whatever. CaRT are seeking the views of boaters but there is no obligation for them to act upon those views, a consultation is just an information gathering process. I expect they hope that boaters views will support their plans, but maybe they just need to know how unpopular they are to prepare for a battle.

and, where I used to work they were more honest (if pushed) and admitted they were "one way consultations". We we were told what had been decided and we were allowed to express our views but they would not be acted upon.

.............Dave

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1 minute ago, dmr said:

 

1 The current licence is an absolute bargain for CCing liveaboards.

 

I agree, and the price of CRT on-line moorings is the opposite. £3,000-ish for an unserviced mooring suggests to me they should raise the licence cost and reduce their mooring charge. This would make the decision to CC for cost reasons only, a little less of a no-brainer and bring a little financial pressure on boaters to behave as CRT appear to want them to, and begin to stem the headlong rush to buy widebeams and notionally CC whilst trying to stay in one general area.  

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50 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I agree, and the price of CRT on-line moorings is the opposite. £3,000-ish for an unserviced mooring suggests to me they should raise the licence cost and reduce their mooring charge. This would make the decision to CC for cost reasons only, a little less of a no-brainer and bring a little financial pressure on boaters to behave as CRT appear to want them to, and begin to stem the headlong rush to buy widebeams and notionally CC whilst trying to stay in one general area.  

Trouble is this would upset the marina business and a lot of people have spent a lot of money digging marinas (and still are). Some boaters really like marinas but I suspect a LOT of others, including your widebeam residentials, would prefer an on line mooring. The unserviced on line mooring fee therefore has to carry a premium to reflect its "nicer than a marina" advantage and so not be competitive to the marina operators.

.............Dave

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48 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I agree, and the price of CRT on-line moorings is the opposite. £3,000-ish for an unserviced mooring suggests to me they should raise the licence cost and reduce their mooring charge. This would make the decision to CC for cost reasons only, a little less of a no-brainer and bring a little financial pressure on boaters to behave as CRT appear to want them to, and begin to stem the headlong rush to buy widebeams and notionally CC whilst trying to stay in one general area.  

Not just financial pressure but also plenty of hardship for people on a low income. 

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22 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Not just financial pressure but also plenty of hardship for people on a low income. 

 

You think its people on a low income launching all these £120k widebeams that get the best deals of all on CC licensing?!!

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Actually on reflection, I think CRT mooring prices and NB licences are both too high and should be reduced, funded by an increase in WB licenses.

And finessing it further, scruffy NB licenses should be cheaper than shiny NB licenses. This is to address Goliath's point.

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27 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Anything is a bargain if your've money enough to cover it and not worry. 

 

 

But even for our huge boat its less than £3 per night, free water, free rubbish disposal, and free sewage unless you have a pump out. Try staying on a campsite in a motorhome and it will be close to ten times that, and I bet the scenery wont be nearly as good, and the local pub will probably be naff.

On the Weaver for a bit and so get our own personal lock keepers (free), though do have to give a days notice.

What I would really like is a 300% increase in the licence and CaRT provide the beer free of charge, but expect it would be a bit bland.. :D

..........Dave

  • Greenie 1
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2 hours ago, dmr said:

But even for our huge boat its less than £3 per night, free water, free rubbish disposal, and free sewage unless you have a pump out. Try staying on a campsite in a motorhome and it will be close to ten times that, and I bet the scenery wont be nearly as good, and the local pub will probably be naff.

On the Weaver for a bit and so get our own personal lock keepers (free), though do have to give a days notice.

What I would really like is a 300% increase in the licence and CaRT provide the beer free of charge, but expect it would be a bit bland.. :D

..........Dave

Dave, your license pays for the things you say are free. 

 

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

You think its people on a low income launching all these £120k widebeams that get the best deals of all on CC licensing?!!

How do widebeams get the best deal? They cant do Brum, They cant do the Shroppie etc 

 

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2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Actually on reflection, I think CRT mooring prices and NB licences are both too high and should be reduced, funded by an increase in WB licenses.

And finessing it further, scruffy NB licenses should be cheaper than shiny NB licenses. This is to address Goliath's point.

there's not the emoji to reply to that. 

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