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Am I throwing away my nest egg?


MikeTren

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Probably you best bet to get a mooring in Oxford is to buy a boat on the agenda 21 moorings, you will pay well over the odds for the boat but its the mooring where the value is as the chances of getting a residential in Oxford without it is next to zero. You may get one further out like Thrupp or Mrsmelly land.

 

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"Am I throwing away my nest-egg"

Look at it from the other perspective - how else would you use this sum of money.

If it is enough for the deposit on a house or a flat then you can buy with a mortgage, but you must then service the mortgage and pay all the bills. However this route will mean that your investment will keep pace with house prices (which is far more significant than depreciation) 

I can't imagine any safe investment vehicle other than property that will keep pace with property prices, unless these are set to stall and crash for ten years. 

If you buy a boat with it, you get the use of the boat for as long as you own it - whilst your "investment" won't keep pace with property values, it will at least be serving a practical purpose.

Also, where do you mean by "Oxford"? Central, and thus need to travel by bus, bike or train? Or somewhere out of town like Begbrooke or Headington where you will more likely use a car? 

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around about 40 mr 50 .when we took the plunge so to speak .but like someone said  earlier ..one of the main things to concern myself was are we both in this together as that must be one of the top 3 concerns ...becuse its not all what people think it is about this way of life ....thankfully  we where in this together ...not always seeing eye to eye but who does ...and i repeat still one of the best moves we made together 

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25 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I have never met anyone who confides in me that they prefer to live "scruffy", rather than a nice smart detached house in Surbiton with an Audi in the drive, and two holidays a year.

I think you need to get out and meet more boaters :D

There is a growing assumption of late that people live on the canal to get cheaper housing, but there are a huge number of people living on the cut because they choose that lifestyle, I fear some are even boat/canal fanatics.

And no matter what the sartorial intention was, a few years on the cut and scruffy appears to take hold.

...........Dave

 

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46 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Probably you best bet to get a mooring in Oxford is to buy a boat on the agenda 21 moorings, you will pay well over the odds for the boat but its the mooring where the value is as the chances of getting a residential in Oxford without it is next to zero. You may get one further out like Thrupp or Mrsmelly land.

 

Yes I saw a boat going for 80k on an Agenda 21 mooring. Which looked heavily overpriced for what it was. On the other hand, in Oxford I could also spend every last penny I have and pay 3 times as much for a shabby flat in a concrete 70s monstrosity. So probably still worth it! I need ask CRT about security of tenure, if I'm going to pay massively over the odds for the mooring I going to want to know I have a good chance of keeping it! 

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1 minute ago, MikeTren said:

Yes I saw a boat going for 80k on an Agenda 21 mooring. Which looked heavily overpriced for what it was. On the other hand, in Oxford I could also spend every last penny I have and pay 3 times as much for a shabby flat in a concrete 70s monstrosity. So probably still worth it! I need ask CRT about security of tenure, if I'm going to pay massively over the odds for the mooring I going to want to know I have a good chance of keeping it! 

I understand, but please do check that the A21 moorings are fully transferable,so hopefully when you do move on you will get your money back, maybe more.

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Based on house prices over the past 30 years, (and longer), you will definitely be burning your bridges if you sell the house you already own half of, and spend all/a chunk of the money on a boat.

With just over twice as much experience of life as you have, and given the opportunity you now have, I would do whatever you can to retain your place on the housing ladder.... WHATEVER IT TAKES!!!

Where is the house? How much is it worth?

Buy your sisters half with some kind of mortgage, (buy to let mortgage on the basis that you are going to rent it out). Remortgage it once you own it, (you may have to wait 6 months before a lender will consider the next loan), to release as much as you can to buy your boat. The rent will cover the mortgage, (the lender wont lend the money if it wont), you get to buy a boat and live on it, and you are invested in double the amount of property that you are right now, as against not invested in property at all.

When property values have doubled again in 10 years time, (or 5 years, or 15 years, or whatever), you will own outright more than half of the property, and you have a variety of options.

(In the past 30 years, property has generally increased in value roughly ten times)

If the above doesn't release enough money to buy the kind of boat that you would really like, buy the kind of boat you can afford. £25,000 should buy a 45ft trad stern boat, with enough room down below, (just), for a couple to live aboard.

I could go on, but you will get the gist.....

IMHO, of course :)

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7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The 'wisdom' is normally to have a house, rent it out, buy a boat and live on the rental income. 

Thanks for this, yes I should have enough change to buy a flat or a house in some areas to bring in a decent rental income. One of the perks of living on a boat, that I don't have to blow the entire amount on just somewhere for me to live but cam invest the rest. But I might wait to see what happens after Brexit before I take that punt! One thing at a time I suppose.

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6 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

"Am I throwing away my nest-egg"

Look at it from the other perspective - how else would you use this sum of money.

If it is enough for the deposit on a house or a flat then you can buy with a mortgage, but you must then service the mortgage and pay all the bills. However this route will mean that your investment will keep pace with house prices (which is far more significant than depreciation) 

I can't imagine any safe investment vehicle other than property that will keep pace with property prices, unless these are set to stall and crash for ten years. 

If you buy a boat with it, you get the use of the boat for as long as you own it - whilst your "investment" won't keep pace with property values, it will at least be serving a practical purpose.

Also, where do you mean by "Oxford"? Central, and thus need to travel by bus, bike or train? Or somewhere out of town like Begbrooke or Headington where you will more likely use a car? 

 

6 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

Look at it from the other perspective - how else would you use this sum of money....

Also, where do you mean by "Oxford"? Central, and thus need to travel by bus, bike or train? Or somewhere out of town like Begbrooke or Headington where you will more likely use a car? 

Well exactly, I could spend the entire amount on buying a place I don't want and in an area I don't want to live in. Or live on a boat that I love and be happy. 

As for Oxford, I will be trying to hold out for central Oxford, having to drive does very poor things for a social life! Staggering home from the pub distance has to be what, a couple of miles? If I do have to go a little further out, I did have the very romantic idea, whilst a little drunk, of commuting into town on an inflatible dinghy and an outboard (my current boat). But more realisticly I'll be buying a Velosolex. It's small enough to fit on a cruiser stern or even on the roof at a push. They only go 35mph but ridiculously pretty!

Velosolex38000V761MGC.jpg

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16 minutes ago, MikeTren said:

Thanks for this, yes I should have enough change to buy a flat or a house in some areas to bring in a decent rental income. One of the perks of living on a boat, that I don't have to blow the entire amount on just somewhere for me to live but cam invest the rest. But I might wait to see what happens after Brexit before I take that punt! One thing at a time I suppose.

If you convert the money that you already have invested in a house into cash, and house prices rise, you will get less house for your money when you buy, and you will have had no rent, (and almost no interest on it).

If you convert it straight back into property, you will start collecting rent, (a better return than cash in the bank), and, whether property values rise or fall, it doesn't matter a jot because you continue collecting rent for years and years, (assuming you are in it for the long term). Values only matter when you are getting close to cashing in.

 

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8 hours ago, LadyG said:

I would be surprised, why would they need £1million, where would they get it?

I have never met anyone who confides in me that they prefer to live "scruffy", rather than a nice smart detached house in Surbiton with an Audi in the drive, and two holidays a year.

Quite a lot on the cut.

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14 hours ago, MikeTren said:

Thanks for confirming this! I was about to write to the RCT and ask if actually needed to have a boat in order to apply for a mooring.

If you can stay within the continuous cruising rules and still manage to commute to work, you could buy the boat then explore that area for a period to gauge where you want to be. You don't need to commit to a permanent mooring straight away. It will also give you time to test the water, so to speak, and chat to other boaters.

As regards investment. No, a boat is not a good financial investment. As others have suggested, keep that in bricks and mortar. For me a house will never beat living on a boat, but it's the best way to invest your money..

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6 hours ago, Laurie.Booth said:

Quite a lot on the cut. [live scruffy and have a £million to hand if needed.]

I am sure there are plenty on the cut who can afford to live in Surbiton, indeed they may well have a million in assets, they may have a £million in a house, but they are not likely to tell all and sundry about it, that is rather my point. Plus, they don't all revert to scruffy, surely?

Edited by LadyG
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8 hours ago, MikeTren said:

 

Well exactly, I could spend the entire amount on buying a place I don't want and in an area I don't want to live in. Or live on a boat that I love and be happy. 

As for Oxford, I will be trying to hold out for central Oxford, having to drive does very poor things for a social life! Staggering home from the pub distance has to be what, a couple of miles? If I do have to go a little further out, I did have the very romantic idea, whilst a little drunk, of commuting into town on an inflatible dinghy and an outboard (my current boat). But more realisticly I'll be buying a Velosolex. It's small enough to fit on a cruiser stern or even on the roof at a push. They only go 35mph but ridiculously pretty!

Velosolex38000V761MGC.jpg

Suggest you walk the towpath around central Oxford , mooring for anything more than a couple of days is very very difficult and unless you have a permanent mooring you may find yourself further out than you want. 

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All boats depreciate in that the value does not keep pace with inflation.

Recent perceived price increases are most likely a blip. 

On the basis of past experience - In 10 years house prices will certainly  have increased considerably  but used boat prices will not. 

Your money would be better invested in property. Buy a boat when you can afford it even if that means it will be later in life.

 

 

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The more I think about this the more I think the ship has sailed.  Given the clamour for moorings in popular locations such as Oxford and the crowded narrowboat market it's a dodgy proposition that Mike may regret in as little as 12 months if the bubble bursts and boat prices start to tumble.  Too many other folk have the same idea at the moment.

Also, a lot of Mike's comments suggest that he has a very idealistic, romantic, view of the boating life.  Most of us on here know that they can break your heart when things are going wrong and it's often a short step from love to hate.  

One of the problems with CWDF is we never, or hardly ever, get to hear accounts from people who tried the liveaboard life and failed.  Most of the liveaboard members are fully committed and happy with their lot and there's nothing to balance out the "come on in the water's lovely" view.  

Sorry too many metaphors,  or are they similes - where's Athy..?

 

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7 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

The more I think about this the more I think the ship has sailed.  Given the clamour for moorings in popular locations such as Oxford and the crowded narrowboat market it's a dodgy proposition that Mike may regret in as little as 12 months if the bubble bursts and boat prices start to tumble.  Too many other folk have the same idea at the moment.

Also, a lot of Mike's comments suggest that he has a very idealistic, romantic, view of the boating life.  Most of us on here know that they can break your heart when things are going wrong and it's often a short step from love to hate.  

One of the problems with CWDF is we never, or hardly ever, get to hear accounts from people who tried the liveaboard life and failed.  Most of the liveaboard members are fully committed and happy with their lot and there's nothing to balance out the "come on in the water's lovely" view.  

Sorry too many metaphors,  or are they similes - where's Athy..?

 

too many cliches .............. bubbles bursting, prices tumbling [like tumbling tumblweed perhaps?], breaking hearts, short steps from a to b etc............................

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1 minute ago, LadyG said:

too many cliches .............. bubbles bursting, prices tumbling [like tumbling tumblweed perhaps?], breaking hearts, short steps from a to b etc............................

Are you and Athy related perchance?

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 This is a difficult subject. Boats depreciate because of different reasons, not just the age of the boat but demand for boats in an overcrowded market, difficulties with CRT, fashions in fit out gadgets, so many unpredictable reasons. Living on is not a freedom thing, you are trapped and at the mercy of CRT and mooring providers and any number of other people who see you as prey. Much the same as renting a flat, you have little control and its expensive. If you can possibly get some sort of Freehold property it is top of the list as a 'Good Thing.'

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I think the OP should hire a boat in December for a couple of weeks, to get a flavour of what it is like living on a boat when the towpath is muddy, the nights are long and it is cold and damp.

If he doesn't like it, then he will have saved himself the bother and expense of buying and immediately selling the boat and still have a share in the house thus being able to consider other options.

Edited by cuthound
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6 minutes ago, cuthound said:

I think the OP should hire a boat in December for a couple of weeks, to get a flavour of what it is like living on a boat when the towpath is muddy, the nights are long and it is cold and damp.

If he doesn't like it, then he will have saved himself the bother and expense of buying and immediately selling the boat and still have a share in the house thus being able to consider other options.

I know this is 'oft said', but I do not think that a week or two is really sufficient - in that time you have not filled the toilet, not emptied the water tank, not needed to fetch / carry sacks of coal or gas bottles, in fact, it is just a Winter holiday, and, irrespective of what you are 'thinking' your body realises that it will all be over soon and you will be back to the conveniences of Bricks & Mortar living.

Unless you are going to hire for 2 or 3 months then the only way to actually experience the highs & lows is to 'just do it'.

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