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Am I throwing away my nest egg?


MikeTren

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This is my first post on here, I fear probably the first of many! As it's my first post I'll introduce myself to the group =).

I've spent a lifetime messing about on punts and dinghies and my only experience of something larger was once spending a summer as a deckhand on a Thames pleasure cruiser. So I'm about as green as they come for a liveaboard narrowboat. I'm doing as much research as I can to find out what I'm letting myself in for. 

I inherited the family home (well half of it) a few years ago and my sister and I will be selling it in spring next year. I have always dreamed of living on a narrowboat and I'm now very excited to make the dream a reality. However, I'm concerned about the depreciation.  I'm looking to spend between £40k - £80k depending on what I'd have to spend to kit it out and whether or not it comes with the all-important residential mooring. My girlfriend and I used to live in a flat in Cambridge at £1000/ month so I'm confident we can cover maintenance and running costs from our salaries. But the money from the sale of the house is to one day go towards the deposit on our family home (a long long time in the future).

So my question is, given I keep it well maintained, how much should I expect to lose from the value in the next 5 to 10 years? And what should I be looking for when buying a boat to minimise this?

Thank you very much, everyone, I look forward to plaguing you all with questions over the next few months and then maybe, someday, actually being able to answer someone else's! 

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As you will be buying a second hand boat (at your indicated budget figures) then the previous owners will have taken most of the ’hit’ on depreciation – as it is your 1st boat you are unlikely to be in a position to know a ‘good deal from a bad deal’ so you will probably still have some depreciation.

I reckon boats around 10-15 years old have 'plateaued' in depreciation, but after 15 years depreciation starts to come back into play until about 25+ years old.

In the last 30 years I have had 18 boats, I have lost money on only one of them, (due to a surveyor who did not see the £20,000+ that needed spending to make it 'sea-worthy' and I therefore paid the 'good condition' price) I have made a profit on (maybe) half-a-dozen and broken about even on the rest.

Buy well - paying cash (pound notes in a carrier bag) will have a big impact on the price you can negotiate with a private seller.

Boats rarely come with a mooring (and even rarer with a residential mooring) and moorings do not have any security of tenure – you can be asked to leave at a moments notice, or the mooring owners whim, always have a ‘plan B’.

 

You have not said where you are looking to be based, but in the ‘South’ residential moorings are very difficult to find as the price of property means that 100s are looking to live on boats. The Canal & River Trust reckon there are in excess of 5000 boats now within ‘London’.

 

If looking for a London mooring – do not be surprised to see the mooring rent at £1000 per month, some have been known to fetch in excess 15,000 per annum at auction.

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hi mike and welcome ...sorry im not the one to answer any of what you ask ...as i dont look that far ahead in time ..the most i look ahead is maybe two months .as i have found out .theres not much use in looking to far  into too the future ...as for myself  and mister .woke up one morning and said thats it ...lets live on a narrowboat ...well it was not as easy as that ...but i got to say its one of my better moves in life ...and if and thats a big if we ever did want bricks and cement .we will cross that bridge when we come to it ...all the very best any way 

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17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

"As you will be buying a second hand boat" 

"You have not said where you are looking to be based,"

Thanks a lot for this Alan! Yes you got that right, I will be looking to buy second hand.

Also I'm looking to live in Oxford, I start working there in June next year. Moorings are like gold dust in Oxford so I'll probably have to rent a spare room until one comes up. 

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Would agree with Mr de Enfield. 

Having said that I used a surveyor as my knowledge of structural matters was limited. I would say at the very least take someone with a good working knowledge

At least you're being realistic in realising that there will more than likely be some depreciation.

 

Good luck

Edited by eastcoastfisher
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1 minute ago, MikeTren said:

Moorings are like gold dust in Oxford

A few yeas ago it was always said 'find your mooring before buying boat', then the recession came  and most mooring providers had vacancies, it is now starting to go full circle with 'youngsters' looking for 'cheap accommodation', liveaboard moorings are becoming very difficult.

Because of the area you are looking I may suggest you find the mooring 1st

Good luck.

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If your main concern is how best to invest your cash long term ,   buy bricks and mortar. Boats are a discretionary spend.

You might be working in Oxford this year, but is it forever?

Edited by LadyG
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30 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Because of the area you are looking I may suggest you find the mooring 1st

Thanks for confirming this! I was about to write to the RCT and ask if actually needed to have a boat in order to apply for a mooring.

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1 minute ago, MikeTren said:

Thanks for confirming this! I was about to write to the RCT and ask if actually needed to have a boat in order to apply for a mooring.

Very, Very, Very few of the Canal & River Trust moorings are residential (planning permission issues) you are unlikely to find one (to be honest).

You need to look at private marinas / mooring providers in your chosen area.

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3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

If your main concern is how best to invest your cash buy bricks and mortar. Boats are a discretionary spend.

It's not so much about investment. It has always been my dream to live on a boat, I've been mildly obsessed with messing about on waterways since I was a child. I'm just acknowledging that a narrowboat may not always be practical if I start a family one day (although I haven't ruled out upgrading to a larger barge in the future if I want littleones). I just want to know whether or not I'm burning my bridges. 

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How old are?

By co-incidence I was discussing this sort of stuff with a total stranger (boater) in the pub last night.

At some point in life some people (especially boaters) realise that having a good lifestyle is more important than saving/investing for what is a finite future. I reckon quite a few people are still saving the day that they die whilst some youngsters go for the lifestyle choice dangerously early.

Boats are not an investment but a very good way of life.

.............Dave

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We bought a narrowboat 2 years ago and if anything looking at prices now it's gone up in value. Ours is just used for holidays and weekends never regretted it  

My attitude is your a long time dead. So make the most of now before it's to late. 

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A starter for 10

 

http://www.osneymillmarina.co.uk/about.html

 

To a certain extent, yes, you are burning your bridges - its a bit like those Brits that went off to live in Bulgaria (or similar) because it was cheap, they can now no longer afford to return as the UK cost of living / house prices have left them way behind. 

The 'wisdom' is normally to have a house, rent it out, buy a boat and live on the rental income.

Once the boat lifebecomes too difficult you can return to your house.

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26 minutes ago, MikeTren said:

It's not so much about investment. It has always been my dream to live on a boat, I've been mildly obsessed with messing about on waterways since I was a child. I'm just acknowledging that a narrowboat may not always be practical if I start a family one day (although I haven't ruled out upgrading to a larger barge in the future if I want littleones). I just want to know whether or not I'm burning my bridges. 

Probably/possibly.  £40k is nothing in housing terms though you can get a comfortable little narrowboat, but the running costs of both houses and boats can be high.

In my way of thinking, a boat is not always the easiest for a family man. Both you and OH must be keen, its not going to work having your dream fulfilled at the expense of your relationship. 

There is nothing to stop you messing about on boats at the weekend, while living in a house/flat during the week. You can have lots of fun on a small cruiser, a trailer type might suit, you can keep it at home, saving mooring fees, and letting you travel much further.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by LadyG
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27 minutes ago, rustydiver said:

We bought a narrowboat 2 years ago and if anything looking at prices now it's gone up in value. Ours is just used for holidays and weekends never regretted it  

My attitude is your a long time dead. So make the most of now before it's to late. 

Yes, but you may have already got a stable financial position with respect to career and family and housing, its different when one is younger, changing jobs, relocating etc,  I am not trying to put anyone off buying a boat [this is my plan!] but it is not a safe "investment", prices are always going to be related to the UK economy, if we get another recession, or if there are swingeing changes to market forces, things can change.

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33 minutes ago, dmr said:

How old are?

28 so getting to the age where I'm a bit sick of renting and want my own place but the idea of settling in one geographical location really doesn't suit me. Being able to move my entire house sounds good! My girlfriend is 23 and doesn't want to think about a family until her 30's so we've got plenty of time to cross that bridge. 

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I would say that the idea that having a boat makes you able to change location is suspect. 90% of the time that you have to change location it will be to an area where convenient residential moorings are not available. Or convenient leisure moorings either.

Edited by system 4-50
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6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Yes, but you may have already got a stable financial position with respect to career and family and housing, its different when one is younger, changing jobs, relocating etc,  I am not trying to put anyone off buying a boat [this is my plan!] but it is not a safe "investment", prices are always going to be related to the UK economy, if we get another recession, or if there are swingeing changes to market forces, things can change.

I'm not talking about it being an investment financially. More an investment in your life. We all put to much time into having to do this and that, pleasing others all the time. When we should stop and think more about the ones around us and have a better quality of life getting work/ life balance right. 

Its not all about bricks and mortar.  

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2 minutes ago, MikeTren said:

28 so getting to the age where I'm a bit sick of renting and want my own place but the idea of settling in one geographical location really doesn't suit me. Being able to move my entire house sounds good! My girlfriend is 23 and doesn't want to think about a family until her 30's so we've got plenty of time to cross that bridge. 

Well that is a bit young to be squandering the nestegg on a lifestyle choice, but the canal system desperately needs more youngsters.

Liveaboard boating is surprisingly expensive so you may struggle to live on a boat and save for a house deposit at the same time. Owning a house (or even several) and living on a boat is certainly the best way to do things. I am surprised at how many boaters we meet, scruffy unassuming people on lived in looking boats, who could raise £1,000,000 if they needed.

There is of course the big decision to as to whether you have your fun and freedom now or in later life, but with planning and a bit of luck it is possible to do both.

...............Dave

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Just now, rustydiver said:

I'm not talking about it being an investment financially. More an investment in your life. We all put to much time into having to do this and that, pleasing others all the time. When we should stop and think more about the ones around us and have a better quality of life getting work/ life balance right. 

Its not all about bricks and mortar.  

Indeed, but OP was asking, is this a risky investment. He mentioned that he has more choice now than in previous years, but, but but, he has not actually tried living on a boat, if he was 100% sure that this is the way to go, he would not be asking.

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Hello Mike and welcome to the forum.

The canal boating world at the moment is in a right state, with any old carp fetching decent money and boatyards and brokers falling over themselves to buy up stock because everyone seems to want a narrowboat at the moment.  It may be this is an upward trend that is going to continue for several years, or it could be the bubble is about to burst.   Whichever view you subscribe to, anyone who tries to tell you what a boat might be worth next year, let alone in ten years, is a fool.   

So forget about the money.  You simply have to decide, as others have suggested, what in life is most important to you.  We all have dreams, many of them never become reality because we have a good think about it and realise that it's just not practical, or perhaps whatever we thought we wanted, we didn't actually want it badly enough.  

I'd suggest the fact that you're raising issues on this forum suggests you're not sure in your own mind whether you really do want to do this.

A lot of folk at the moment are watching these stupid programmes on TV and getting a very distorted view of what canal boating, and in particular owning a boat, is really like. I'm not suggesting for one moment that you are one of these but at the same time you also need to sit back and think about what a lot of money you are proposing to throw at a potential trouble machine.    What you get with an expensive boat is maybe a longer life span and more refinement but all boats go wrong and cost money.  In fact I'd say there's potential for an expensive boat to cost more to run than a cheap one.  

Also the moorings issue is very real and potentially expensive where you propose to live.   

Personally - I wanted to buy a boat to live on 30 years ago, I knew someone who lived on one and it seemed the height of romance to me. But I also wanted to make sure I was financially secure when I retired.  Had I bought the boat I might have more friends and be more of an interesting person... but I very much like the life I have these days so I think I made the right decision.  

Good luck to you whatever you decide. 

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7 minutes ago, dmr said:

Well that is a bit young to be squandering the nestegg on a lifestyle choice, but the canal system desperately needs more youngsters.

Liveaboard boating is surprisingly expensive so you may struggle to live on a boat and save for a house deposit at the same time. Owning a house (or even several) and living on a boat is certainly the best way to do things. I am surprised at how many boaters we meet, scruffy unassuming people on lived in looking boats, who could raise £1,000,000 if they needed.

 

I would be surprised, why would they need £1million, where would they get it?

7 minutes ago, dmr said:

I am surprised at how many boaters we meet, scruffy unassuming people on lived in looking boats, who could raise £1,000,000 if they needed.

 

I have never met anyone who confides in me that they prefer to live "scruffy", rather than a nice smart detached house in Surbiton with an Audi in the drive, and two holidays a year.

Edited by LadyG
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