Inverter choice - peak power

[nb Innisfree]

In the OP's links the Victron is half the output of the Sunny job, equivalent Victron size will be nearer £2k.

[tonyreptiles]

52 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

We have a Mastervolt inverter - well a Combi actually. It just works. You see quite a few threads on here with people having problems with Victron stuff - it is just slightly flaky compared to Mastervolt. Sterling more flaky.

Anyway an important point just mentioned by someone else is the current the inverter takes when it is not powering anything (or anything much, eg a phone charger). Some of the cheaper ones use a lot of current just sitting there, our Mastervolt uses about 0.7A and that is in full power mode, there are other power saving modes whereby it uses less. This means that you can just leave it on 24/7 as we do, and not worry about it. Alternatively you can get a cheaper make with much higher power consumption which you keep switched off when not actually using it.  If you are the sort to like that idea, it will be little hassle as when you get up to turn it on every time you want to use it, you will presumbaly be getting up anyway to put on another hair shirt and find some nettles to flagellate yourself with, before getting another candle out to heat the boat. Sterling ones seem to have particularly idling high power consumption.

Then there are the quality issues hinted at by others. Chinese branded inverters tend to be built to a poor standard. They may work fine for years, they may break down just out of warranty. They may go on fire next week, they may not. Of course a Mastervolt inverter could possibly go on fire, but statistically it is much less likely. Are you a gambling type of chap?

Cheap inverters are built down to a price with lower rated and thus more stressed components, less inherent protection. More expensive inverters are thus because they are better designed to be resilient.

I have a cheapo chinese inverter in my caravan, it works fine but it is only switched on to watch the telly when I am there for the odd weekend, and I am always present when it is on. Plus the caravan isn't worth much.

That's an awesome load of info and explains it all perfectly. 

Many thanks Nicknorman - much appreciated. 

 

TR

27 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

There are a number of 'brands' about but they all look pretty much the same with different labels on.

Cost around £80

Available from larger camping / camper van shops

Try  : Stewart Longton Caravans and Motorhomes Lancaster 

Saved to your Map

 

---

 

Address: 70 Slyne Rd, Bolton-le-Sands, Carnforth LA5 8AL

Hours:

Open today · 9am–5pm

Wednesday	9am–5pm
Thursday	9am–5pm
Friday	9am–5pm
Saturday	9am–5pm
Sunday	10am–5pm
Monday	9am–5pm
Tuesday	9am–5pm

Suggest an edit

Phone: 01524 822911

Cheers Alan - I'll go take a look.

I can throw a rock at Stewart Longton Caravans from here at the moment! That's how close we are!

Thanks again

TR

[Chewbacka]

As one of the inverters linked to was only 3kW peak, it may help to point out that the Inverter peak output is only for a short period (seconds or less in many cases) and is needed (as an example) to start up a fridge.  So you need to calculate your max continuous power consumption, and then make sure your inverter can meet that.  So if the washer is 2kW when heating the water, and the microwave is 1.5kW (power consumed, not cooking power) then if you intend to run both at the same time - and I would not - then you would need a 4kW inverter to allow for a fridge etc.  

 

[tonyreptiles]

17 minutes ago, larryjc said:

I asssume you intend to be using the washing machine when travelling?  We have a 3KW Victron and an 110Amp alternator but when we first used the washing machine with the engine running we saw over 100 amps coming out of the batteries on my NASA when the heater kicked in because the alternator could only cope with about half the current load required for the heater. I calculated that  my machine heater draws about 220 amps.  I could have replumbed and used the hot water supply but a simpler solution is to put a kettle of hot water down the soap tray followed by some hot water from the hot tap (with a little hose thingy).  The heater never has to kick in and we get a very good wash - probably because its a lot hotter than the heater would give.

I do like a good workaround. 

I think what we're going to do is sell the domestic washing machine and hopefully get close to what it costs to buy one of these twin-tub jobbies. 

From there I would hope that by filling from the hot tap we can keep and use the crappy inverter we currently have. 

At a later date we shall fit a new inverter and, if necessary, get a new washing machine. Although, if the twin tub is working out just fine, we'll keep that. 
 

Many thanks for all of your inputs. It's been enlightening. 
This forum is so invaluable.
Thanks everyone. 

TR

[mross]

57 minutes ago, tonyreptiles said:

The product number is 914601513
Thanks you so much for your help - if we can find out the peak draw for this washing machine we can be confident of buying the right size of inverter. yes?

I'd be very interested to know what kind of twin-tub people are using - it sounds like a good option considering we want to use as least power as possible. 

Thanks again
TR
 

 

2

can you provide the 10th and 11th numbers - as I have found four manuals here http://www.aeg.co.uk/support/support/download-manuals/?q=914601513

AEG no longer have the 'product fiche' and the manual does not give the kW.

I have emailed AEG for this info; they normally reply quite quickly - I have several of their appliances!

 

[tonyreptiles]

Just now, Chewbacka said:

As one of the inverters linked to was only 3kW peak, it may help to point out that the Inverter peak output is only for a short period (seconds or less in many cases) and is needed (as an example) to start up a fridge.  So you need to calculate your max continuous power consumption, and then make sure your inverter can meet that.  So if the washer is 2kW when heating the water, and the microwave is 1.5kW (power consumed, not cooking power) then if you intend to run both at the same time - and I would not - then you would need a 4kW inverter to allow for a fridge etc.  

 

Hi Chewy,

 

we're going to be running a small-twin tub washing machine and a standard domestic 240v fridge. 
No microwave, but regular laptop and large screen, plus occasional phone charger etc. 

Sound OK?

TR

2 minutes ago, mross said:

can you provide the 10th and 11th numbers - as I have found four manuals here http://www.aeg.co.uk/support/support/download-manuals/?q=914601513

AEG no longer have the 'product fiche' and the manual does not give the kW.

I have emailed AEG for this info; they normally reply quite quickly - I have several of their appliances!

 

Bugger - apologies. 
It looks like 914 601 513 00.

Sorry. 

:-/

TR

[system 4-50]

Is there any evidence anywhere that a wash has to be hot to be effective?

[larryjc]

17 minutes ago, tonyreptiles said:

Hi Chewy,

 

we're going to be running a small-twin tub washing machine and a standard domestic 240v fridge. 
No microwave, but regular laptop and large screen, plus occasional phone charger etc. 

Sound OK?

TR

Bugger - apologies. 
It looks like 914 601 513 00.

Sorry. 

:-/

TR

The fridge/laptop etc will probably need less than 300w at 240v so should not be an issue.  But I've used similar twin tubs on yachts and found them a pain as they are a high workload and small capacity.  In your original post you say you have a domestic machine, personally I would still go down that route purely for long term convenience.  Apart from the heater load which as I and others have said you can by pass with a hot fill system, they aren't that high a load. Certainly if you have a decent charging system on you engine then that will cope fine.  I think you will still need a reasonably decent inverter to give a clean output.   You say you already have a washing macine and 'crappy' inverter - do you know what it is? 

Edited October 11, 2017 by larryjc

[mross]

Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but when you come to replace your inverter, get a pure sine wave model.  My Nespresso machine won't run from my modified sine wave inverter.  Lotsof modern equipment objects to the lumpy wave form of electricity from MSW inverters.

If you buy a little twin tub, look for a decent load - ie 5kg and a good spin speed.  2800rpm will give you five times more effect than 1300rpm ( )

[Chewbacka]

9 minutes ago, tonyreptiles said:

Hi Chewy,

 

we're going to be running a small-twin tub washing machine and a standard domestic 240v fridge. 
No microwave, but regular laptop and large screen, plus occasional phone charger etc. 

Sound OK?

TR

 

My fridge takes about 2kW for a fraction of a second when it starts, so you need an inverter with 2kW peak, so the 1600W (3000W peak) should be fine.  Others have managed to run mains fridges on much less.  However if you overload your inverter briefly then it may shorten it's life, hence I like to have a good safety margin.  I used to have a very cheap 1500W inverter, and it had no problem with the fridge or power tools up to 600W - never tried anything bigger.   Before that I had an 800W inverter and my 600W drill caused it to release it's black smoke even though it supposedly had overload protection.

Now I have a Studer inverter - not common on boats - which also came with a 5 year guarantee which means they must be confident about it's reliability.

 

[mross]

4 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Is there any evidence anywhere that a wash has to be hot to be effective?

Modern detergents work well at 30 deg C but that won't kill bed bugs and other nasties.  But a good drier can accomplish it with just heat.

[nicknorman]

10 minutes ago, mross said:

Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but when you come to replace your inverter, get a pure sine wave model.  My Nespresso machine won't run from my modified sine wave inverter.  Lotsof modern equipment objects to the lumpy wave form of electricity from MSW inverters.

If you buy a little twin tub, look for a decent load - ie 5kg and a good spin speed.  2800rpm will give you five times more effect than 1300rpm ( )

But the r is just as relevant (although linear). Our Zanussi compact has 1300rpm spin speed but the drum is pretty small radius (r) so the F is not that high. It's OK though, and we have a tumble drier. A twin tub often has a high rotational speed but a very small r.

Edited October 11, 2017 by nicknorman

[mross]

15 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

But the r is just as relevant (although linear). Our Zanussi compact has 1300rpm spin speed but the drum is pretty small radius (r) so the F is not that high. It's OK though, and we have a tumble drier. A twin tub often has a high rotational speed but a very small r.

True, but the drum diameter doesn't vary much on these twin tubs but the spin speed does.  That's why I mentioned it 

[system 4-50]

41 minutes ago, mross said:

Modern detergents work well at 30 deg C but that won't kill bed bugs and other nasties.  But a good drier can accomplish it with just heat.

That's ok then. I use a Candy GOFS on cold wash only then a White Knight gas tumble dryer  (which still requires 240V to turn the drum) on a Victron combi 1800W with 175A alternator.

[mross]

27 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

That's ok then. I use a Candy GOFS on cold wash only then a White Knight gas tumble dryer  (which still requires 240V to turn the drum) on a Victron combi 1800W with 175A alternator.

There's an informative Which? article here http://www.which.co.uk/reviews/washing-machines/article/washing-machine-temperature-guide

It points out that even 60deg C won't kill all germs and that most washers never reach 60deg C anyway!

[cereal tiller]

43 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

That's ok then. I use a Candy GOFS on cold wash only then a White Knight gas tumble dryer  (which still requires 240V to turn the drum) on a Victron combi 1800W with 175A alternator.

Pray tell us more about the Gas Tumble Dryer?

[Dave Payne]

8 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

Pray tell us more about the Gas Tumble Dryer?

Its dead easy!

[cereal tiller]

1 minute ago, Dave Payne said:

Its dead easy!

Thanks Dave,I will nip down to the Shed and Knock one up!does it have an Anti-Crease Cycle?

[Dave Payne]

1 minute ago, cereal tiller said:

Thanks Dave,I will nip down to the Shed and Knock one up!does it have an Anti-Crease Cycle?

no need, you will never get creases with this method, in fact you will never need to worry about emptying it, or ironing again.

And you can run it from a cheap Chinese invertor, outdoors of course for when both set on fire.

[Alan de Enfield]

19 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

Pray tell us more about the Gas Tumble Dryer?

Eco Frendly Dryers

The Eco Tumble Dryer is the only domestic tumble drying appliance available in the UK which uses gas rather than electricity and which consequently produces 54% less carbon than a typical electric tumble dryer with 61% lower annual running costs.

 

https://whiteknightdryers.com/eco-frendly-dryers/

[nicknorman]

Natural gas only, I think? Flue arrangement? Legality for fitting on a boat (ie do the instructions make provision for it?)

[ditchcrawler]

29 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Natural gas only, I think? Flue arrangement? Legality for fitting on a boat (ie do the instructions make provision for it?)

That is what I was wondering

[system 4-50]

Mine is LPG and has passed a BSS. I can't comment on the gas & elec usage yet as I've not had it long enough.

White Knight LPG86A.

[Chop!]

We've used one of these small twin tubs for a few years now, the safety switch activator broke, but I simply added a pull ring to the activator strap, Glenda does it manually without a problem, hot water from the shower, spins out into the sink.

Not a huge capacity, but washes efficiently, and the spin dry is really good.

Fits in our half bath / shower, just need to lift it out when having a shower.

We still do a larger wash in our marina at times.

[mross]

It's a bit late now, but AEG finally replied..........................

Thank you for your email with regard to your AEG washing machine. 

I am afraid that due to the age of the appliance, we are only able to access the user manual for this model. Please find this below - 

I trust the above will assist you with your query and if you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Care Department on 03445 611 611.

Kind Regards,

Charlotte
AEG Customer Care Team