Engine Advice please

[andy4502]

Ditch - 'drop out' - sometimes stays in gear but output reduces, on other occasions it goes into neutral but with the engine running at the revs selected. Does that make sense?

 

Old - Engine bay is clean as as part of the work we commissioned on the back of the survey - they cleaned it (and serviced engine, heater, electrics etc). New exhaust came about as old one blew on first trip out  So in total this is what we have had done:

• Replated area at stern which was down to 3.5 mm, elsewhere all was 8mm++.
• New skeg (previous rusted).
• Engine bay clean and engine service
• New batteries (leisure and starter)
• Heating service - Ersbacher (cant spell it)
• Black to gunnels and new blacking
• Paint boat one colour but well - looks fab
• Every other niggle or issue in survey report (did a full and complete survey)
• New exhaust
• new pipes for swim tank/engine
• alternator fix to charge start battery (there are two alternators and the small one for the start battery was not working)
• Clean and repaint internal water tank
• fix shower (new pump)
• fix and new gas pipe and regulator

quite a lot when you look at it - and I am sure there was more than that!!

Have done about 150 hours of engine use this summer - and seen the mon and brec at its most beautiful - the pubs are good too!!

[Neil2]

Gear selection problems seem to be quite common just now for some reason, we've come across several such boats in the last few weeks, all of them down to cable adjustment/breakage.  I suppose towards the end of the cruising season things start to wear/loosen.  

The loss of power may be completely unrelated and as Rose says autumn leaves are a real pain at this time of year and can give the symptoms described.  Just a thought though - you have checked the clamp on the propshaft coupling?   

[MtB]

4 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Check the engine oil for level and colour - If it's very black and the engine smokes when running then your suggestion of an engine transplant  may be sensible.

 

This is the second time I've seen it stated on here in two days that black oil is a problem in a diesel. As I understand it this is wrong. Engine oil contains detergents which will turn the oil in a Diesel engine black pretty quickly. The time to worry is when the oil does NOT turn black a dozen or two hours after an oil change. 

Peer review of this invited!

[StephenA]

8 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

This is the second time I've seen it stated on here in two days that black oil is a problem in a diesel. As I understand it this is wrong. Engine oil contains detergents which will turn the oil in a Diesel engine black pretty quickly. The time to worry is when the oil does NOT turn black a dozen or two hours after an oil change. 

Peer review of this invited!

Its always been black on our 1.5, and its been black on the diesel cars I've owned too. 

[Up-Side-Down]

5 hours ago, StephenA said:

Oddly enough the PRM website

http://www.prm-newage.com/help-centre-marine

States:

Q: What Oil does my gearbox take?

A: A mechanical gearbox (PRM 60, 80, 90, 120 or 125) must use automatic transmission fluid (ATF) Dextron II or III

All hydraulic gearboxes must use mineral 15W40 (not synthetic)

 

Or you could read this – 4.3 Approved Oils:

 

http://www.dintra.com/download/PRM 120D Workshop manual.pdf

 

 

 

[StephenA]

9 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said:

 

Or you could read this – 4.3 Approved Oils:

 

http://www.dintra.com/download/PRM 120D Workshop manual.pdf

 

 

 

You are aware that that PDF seems to date from 1997 and is a scan of a printed copy

The current manual on the PRM website

http://www.prm-newage.com/media/Owners Handbook(1).pdf 

states

Edited October 8, 2017 by StephenA

[Up-Side-Down]

2 minutes ago, StephenA said:

You are aware that that PDF seems to date from 1997?

 

The current manual

http://www.prm-newage.com/media/Owners Handbook(1).pdf 

states

 

 

As do many of the PRM 120 gearboxes we're talking about! Indeed, the PRM 120 has now been replaced by the PRM 125.

[StephenA]

10 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said:

As do many of the PRM 120 gearboxes we're talking about! Indeed, the PRM 120 has now been replaced by the PRM 125.

So you're saying a 20 year old manual should be taken as better advice than the manufacturer's current manual which includes the 120?

Newage PRM changed the oil specifications a few years ago....

As stated here:

""The problem being, if a 120 (A mechanical box) is filled with the oil we specify for our Hydraulic boxes (150 and above) then the cone clutch is caused to slip and burn off the coating it uses to help it engage with the forward and reverse housings. This problem gets steadily worse after time and unless its caught early usually requires the box to be fitted with a replacement cone clutch.""

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by StephenA

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

This is the second time I've seen it stated on here in two days that black oil is a problem in a diesel. As I understand it this is wrong. Engine oil contains detergents which will turn the oil in a Diesel engine black pretty quickly. The time to worry is when the oil does NOT turn black a dozen or two hours after an oil change. 

Peer review of this invited!

I am with you on that, especially on older engines because some carbon particles will be too small to be trapped in the oil filter. I also don't see how oil that needs changing makes engine smoke - apart from on broken small air cooled Listers!

Now if the oil is black and thick its a different matter.

 

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

This is the second time I've seen it stated on here in two days that black oil is a problem in a diesel. As I understand it this is wrong. Engine oil contains detergents which will turn the oil in a Diesel engine black pretty quickly. The time to worry is when the oil does NOT turn black a dozen or two hours after an oil change. 

Peer review of this invited!

Unless it is a Beta 43 with the larger sump.

For some reason these engines seem to go 100+ hours before the oil discolouration. 

Anyone know why? 

[OldGoat]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

This is the second time I've seen it stated on here in two days that black oil is a problem in a diesel. As I understand it this is wrong. Engine oil contains detergents which will turn the oil in a Diesel engine black pretty quickly. The time to worry is when the oil does NOT turn black a dozen or two hours after an oil change. 

Peer review of this invited!

 

 

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

This is the second time I've seen it stated on here in two days that black oil is a problem in a diesel. As I understand it this is wrong. Engine oil contains detergents which will turn the oil in a Diesel engine black pretty quickly. The time to worry is when the oil does NOT turn black a dozen or two hours after an oil change. 

Peer review of this invited!

and Tony Brooks replied

I am with you on that, especially on older engines because some carbon particles will be too small to be trapped in the oil filter. I also don't see how oil that needs changing makes engine smoke - apart from on broken small air cooled Listers!

Now if the oil is black and thick its a different matter.

 and that (above ) is what I really meant to convey - hindsight....... The sight of a cruddy engine in a relatively pristine engine bay had me off balance. The OP replied and explained the latter and given that he's had some months satisfactory cruising from it with no complaint other than the gearbox then the engine may be serviceable for some time to come.

I'm now wondering whether the problem may just be the remote control outer cable slipping in the gearbox attachment point? 

 

 

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[WotEver]

5 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

 

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However did you manage to post all that lot?

[Bee]

44 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Unless it is a Beta 43 with the larger sump.

For some reason these engines seem to go 100+ hours before the oil discolouration. 

Anyone know why? 

Same with mine, oil looks clean and clear, probably done more than 100 hours, sort of hoping that it means next to no wear inside engine but someones going to say that it means everything is so clogged that the oil has never circulated.

[OldGoat]

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

However did you manage to post all that lot?

I have absolutely NO idea, 'onest guv - I just replied to the post. I don't 'do' smileys.... 

[cuthound]

3 minutes ago, Bee said:

Same with mine, oil looks clean and clear, probably done more than 100 hours, sort of hoping that it means next to no wear inside engine but someones going to say that it means everything is so clogged that the oil has never circulated.

I suspect it is because of the oversized sump, which lets the suspended particles settle out when the engine is stationary for (compared to a car) long periods, but I have no definitive evidence centre of this.