March of the Wide Beams

[matty40s]

3 hours ago, Leo No2 said:

There is a limit on the tunnels (well I can speak specifically about Blisworth and assume - assume makes an ass out of u and me - Braunston is the same especially with its little wiggle as is the remainder of the waterway) is as follows:

• Width: 12' 6"
• Airdraft: 7'

There is a 14 foot hotel boat been through there and a 13 1/2 foot widebeam moored at Calcutt which has also been through both.

[alan_fincher]

4 hours ago, Leo No2 said:

There is a limit on the tunnels (well I can speak specifically about Blisworth and assume - assume makes an ass out of u and me - Braunston is the same especially with its little wiggle as is the remainder of the waterway) is as follows:

• Width: 12' 6"
• Airdraft: 7'

Although the BW published document from which I tool the dimensionsfor the Birmingham main line says....

Berkhamsted (above lock 54) – Braunston

	Maximum dimension	Absolute maximum*
Length:	72ft (21.95m)	76ft (23.16m)
Beam:	12ft 6ins (3.81m)	13ft 8ins (4.16m)
Draught:	N/A	N/A
Headroom:	7ft 10ins (2.38m)

*Consult local waterway office

 

1 hour ago, matty40s said:

There is a 14 foot hotel boat been through there and a 13 1/2 foot widebeam moored at Calcutt which has also been through both.

Which hotel boat is 14 feet then?

Edited October 5, 2017 by alan_fincher

[rustynewbery]

An interesting debate and while there is a published profile of 12ft 6" for the GU up to Camp Hill, present conditions certainly don't allow 2 wide beams to pass in many places. You can just about squeeze a fat boat and narrowboat past each other in the Milton Keynes area!! Hotel boat Tranquil Rose, which I last saw at Nelson's Wharf, has a low profile and that's why it could fit under the bridge at the Blue Lias which does have a 14ft gap. 

As regards the north Oxford, it's published dimensions are clearly stated, so I expect CRT to enforce this for the benefit of all narrow craft.  The last official response from the SE Waterways Manager is:

Thank you for your email raising questions about wide beams on the north Oxford canal.  I apologise for the delay in my reply but as you can imagine this topic has generated a wide range of views. 

 

I asked for the matter to be raised at last NAG meeting before Xmas.  The NAG  members agreed that the Oxford is a narrow canal and the max published dimensions should be 2.1 x 21m  (there are slight variations along the length of the canal).  As such I have asked for our web site to be updated accordingly and am also following this up with our marinas team to ensure we are all on the same page.

 

Kind regards Vicky

Waterway Manager South East

 

So it seems that this is being ignored by marina operators and wide beam owners - and of course CRT themselves who allowed construction of an abnormally wide access to Dunchurch Pools!

Trying to fit a quart into a pint pot comes to mind

 

[john6767]

3 minutes ago, rustynewbery said:

An interesting debate and while there is a published profile of 12ft 6" for the GU up to Camp Hill, present conditions certainly don't allow 2 wide beams to pass in many places. You can just about squeeze a fat boat and narrowboat past each other in the Milton Keynes area!! Hotel boat Tranquil Rose, which I last saw at Nelson's Wharf, has a low profile and that's why it could fit under the bridge at the Blue Lias which does have a 14ft gap. 

As regards the north Oxford, it's published dimensions are clearly stated, so I expect CRT to enforce this for the benefit of all narrow craft.  The last official response from the SE Waterways Manager is:

Thank you for your email raising questions about wide beams on the north Oxford canal.  I apologise for the delay in my reply but as you can imagine this topic has generated a wide range of views. 

 

I asked for the matter to be raised at last NAG meeting before Xmas.  The NAG  members agreed that the Oxford is a narrow canal and the max published dimensions should be 2.1 x 21m  (there are slight variations along the length of the canal).  As such I have asked for our web site to be updated accordingly and am also following this up with our marinas team to ensure we are all on the same page.

 

Kind regards Vicky

Waterway Manager South East

 

So it seems that this is being ignored by marina operators and wide beam owners - and of course CRT themselves who allowed construction of an abnormally wide access to Dunchurch Pools!

Trying to fit a quart into a pint pot comes to mind

 

The reality is that in many places on the GU there is no space for 2 narrowboats to pass, I am talking about north of Braunston here, I am sure it is better down south. In the main the restrictions are due to trees/bushes, both offside and on the towpath side.

[Victor Vectis]

18 hours ago, Ray T said:

No, these two bridges haven't been altered. At least they weren't when I went through them two weeks ago.

Yes.

I came across a pair of tugs, breasted up, stuck in one of those bridge 'oles earlier this year.

The, ahem, traffic holdup was reported on Radio 2!

[cuthound]

16 minutes ago, rustynewbery said:

An interesting debate and while there is a published profile of 12ft 6" for the GU up to Camp Hill, present conditions certainly don't allow 2 wide beams to pass in many places. You can just about squeeze a fat boat and narrowboat past each other in the Milton Keynes area!! Hotel boat Tranquil Rose, which I last saw at Nelson's Wharf, has a low profile and that's why it could fit under the bridge at the Blue Lias which does have a 14ft gap. 

As regards the north Oxford, it's published dimensions are clearly stated, so I expect CRT to enforce this for the benefit of all narrow craft.  The last official response from the SE Waterways Manager is:

Thank you for your email raising questions about wide beams on the north Oxford canal.  I apologise for the delay in my reply but as you can imagine this topic has generated a wide range of views. 

 

I asked for the matter to be raised at last NAG meeting before Xmas.  The NAG  members agreed that the Oxford is a narrow canal and the max published dimensions should be 2.1 x 21m  (there are slight variations along the length of the canal).  As such I have asked for our web site to be updated accordingly and am also following this up with our marinas team to ensure we are all on the same page.

 

Kind regards Vicky

Waterway Manager South East

 

So it seems that this is being ignored by marina operators and wide beam owners - and of course CRT themselves who allowed construction of an abnormally wide access to Dunchurch Pools!

Trying to fit a quart into a pint pot comes to mind

 

Surely the easiest way to prevent widebeam from accessing the North Oxford canal, oR other narroway canals, would be a width restriction,  or failing that some of CRT'S beloved signs threatening a fine for first offences and Section 8 for subsequent offences.

[b0atman]

any limits of navigation need to be signed at winding hole

[rustynewbery]

The objective would be to have bridge 90 restricted to 8ft beam; no amount of signs or warnings of dire enforcement would deter anyone based on current practice.

Just imagine the carnage if 2 of these fat boats were to approach each other and attempt to pass

[Steilsteven]

On 01/10/2017 at 17:47, Mike Todd said:

I thought that the GU was only really built for wide beam barges up to the Port of Berkhampstead and that the provision of wide locks thereafter was intended to speed up the passage of pairs of narrowboats. 

A common misconception brought about by urban myth.

Keith

On 01/10/2017 at 18:30, john6767 said:

Widebeams have to book Braunston tunnel, and also Bliswoth, as two boats can not pass.  That does imply that they are not allowed on that part of the GU.

Actually, that implies the contrary.

Keith

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, b0atman said:

any limits of navigation need to be signed at winding hole

Nah, it's better to test their reversing skills 

[Athy]

13 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

 

Actually, that implies the contrary.

Keith

Well quite; if they were not allowed there, they would not book the tunnel passages.

[Steilsteven]

On 02/10/2017 at 00:06, rustynewbery said:

Interesting responses on my thread here.

A Dutch barge is quite aesthetic and best suited for canals and rivers that can accommodate them.....these so-called wide beam boats built to a narrowboat profile are so butt ugly, but each to their own! And do not belong on the north Oxford. 

I still maintain that a narrow canal is just not suitable for any other craft. End Of.  Some pictures attached may help those unacquainted with the north Oxford understand what the issues are.  I don't even subscribe to the view that if all the offside vegetation was cut right back it would be OK for wide beams.  I draw 2ft 6", small beer for an ex working boat, so would still struggle to find enough water even if the cut was dredged to original dimensions - which it won't be.  Below is the canal between bridges 83 and 84 

Below is the cut between br90 and 89 in Braunston looking both ways.

I rest my case

Your photos clearly show what you should be campaigning about rather than the rare possibility of a wide beam craft venturing there.

I do wonder about people sometimes.

Keith 

[mrsmelly]

3 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

Your photos clearly show what you should be campaigning about rather than the rare possibility of a wide beam craft venturing there.

I do wonder about people sometimes.

Keith 

I am incomplete agreement. The problem on this forum is too many skinny boat owners are anti any other sort of boat. I have a skinny boat at present because I wanted to be in my present location so it needs to be skinny. My last boat was a far superior widebeam with superior handling, stability and comfort levels but I did stay on waterways suited to it. Problem is too many it seems newbie widebeam owners dont care where they put their boats. However their boats are far superior to any including my skinny offering 

[ditchcrawler]

44 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I am incomplete agreement. The problem on this forum is too many skinny boat owners are anti any other sort of boat. I have a skinny boat at present because I wanted to be in my present location so it needs to be skinny. My last boat was a far superior widebeam with superior handling, stability and comfort levels but I did stay on waterways suited to it. Problem is too many it seems newbie widebeam owners dont care where they put their boats. However their boats are far superior to any including my skinny offering 

I half agree, not all are superior to your skinny one. Some should never try to move, but others are fine on their intended waterway. We are just booking a holiday in France and it will probably be on a pig ugly boat.

[roland elsdon]

Southern oxford appears free of them so far

[john6767]

30 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Southern oxford appears free of them so far

Not unknown for widebeams to go as far a the winding hole bellow Napton, so at least a small bit of the South Oxford does get them 

[Steilsteven]

43 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Southern oxford appears free of them so far

I know a guy who built his own barge by the southern Oxford and had it craned in.

He had to have it craned out again a week or so later when he realised his error. The crane driver was happy though.

Keith

[rustynewbery]

 

Mrsmelly, I hear you're "legging it" back to the wider T&M

As for the rare opportunity of a wide beam venturing there, the marina wouldn't have shelved out for a super sized entrance plus wide beam slipway on the off chance of such a rare occurrence.  Then again, with a reported £15m investment in the project, some might question the business sense in these harsh economic times. Unless they adopt the Mercia model and add lodges or camper home parks etc. Maybe a retrospective planning application for change of use? 

We should all be campaigning for a return to vegetation free boating, but that won't happen anytime soon.  

Any comparisons between skinny/shiny/wide/pig ugly/superior/steel/GRP are surely "in the eye of the beholder" and, without a doubt, the level of comfort within a wide beam has to be better by definition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

47 minutes ago, john6767 said:

Not unknown for widebeams to go as far a the winding hole bellow Napton, so at least a small bit of the South Oxford does get them 

I have seen them up near Napton Narrowboats

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, roland elsdon said:

Southern oxford appears free of them so far

There is one on the Coventry Canal at Alvecote Marina. Fortunately the marina entrance is too narrow for it to get out. 

[David Mack]

Be careful what you wish for!

Am I the only person who is concerned at the view that because certain boats exceed CRT's published dimensions for a particular section of canal, then those boats should not be permitted to use that canal?

This document on the CRT website, updated 18 July 2017, sets out waterway dimensions.  For example, for the Staff and Worcs Canal its says "Length 70 ft Beam 7 ft" and theses figures are marked "Maximum Craft Dimensions" in red type. And the Grand Union between Bulls Bridge and Stockers Lock has a maximum length of 71ft 4 in

So are Grand Union boats 71 ft 6 in long no longer permitted on those waters?

And since none of the narrow canals listed have a beam in excess of 7 ft (although curiously the metric dimensions do vary), presumably no boats built to 7 ft 1/2 in , or any boat that has spread a bit are now allowed on any of the narrow canals?

If CRT want to prevent wide boats accessing the North Oxford, then the only sensible measure is to narrow the canal at the bridge just to the north of Braunston Turn.

[blackrose]

On 02/10/2017 at 00:06, rustynewbery said:

Interesting responses on my thread here.

A Dutch barge is quite aesthetic and best suited for canals and rivers that can accommodate them.....these so-called wide beam boats built to a narrowboat profile are so butt ugly, but each to their own!

A so called butt ugly widebeam...

[blackrose]

4 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

The problem on this forum is too many skinny boat owners are anti any other sort of boat. 

Exactly. They live in their own narrow world and most of them actually know very little about boats. Personally when it comes to boats I embrace diversity. The narrow boat mono-culture bores me.

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Exactly. They live in their own narrow world and most of them actually know very little about boats. Personally when it comes to boats I embrace diversity. The narrow boat mono-culture bores me.

Every boat is 'ideal' in its own ideal environment.

I have had a number of narrowboats, I now have a widebeam (14 feet) and a 'super-wide-beam' (23 feet) in their own 'bit of water', non of them can be beaten.

[blackrose]

I've had a narrow boat too and yes it was fine. I've nothing against the boats, just the mindset of some of the owners.