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shelly-123

Vintage Engines

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Not that I want you to move you away from a 'proper' engine - but a correctly sized 'modern' engine copes very well with rivers. I have a 50Hp Beta in my boat and is purrs along upstream on the Thames in normal conditions and has enough grunt to cope when on Red Boards (strong stream warning) when everyone else has stopped. With a slower revving engine / or modern unit would gain is from a deeper draught with a larger propeller to add to the comfort and quietness.

DO have a vintage engine in it's own engine room and polish up the bits - but it's not essential for a river.

Which rivers do you have in mind?

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Some 2 pots are "bigger" than others, the Gardner 2LW is probably the most powerful but they're pretty hard to get these days.

A 3 pot has more power/torque, in fact it has half as much power again than an equivalent 2 pot :D.

In my personal opinion a 2 pot always sounds much nicer than a 3.

Plenty of vintage 2 pots used on rivers but a 3 pot would be a bit nicer, but then again something like a Gardner 3LW is actually a bit big for canal use.

Everything, as always, is a compromise.

I can't imagine there would be many occasions where you would arrive at a river flowing hard with your 2 pot and think, "I'm not going any further, but if I had a 3 pot I would".

..............Dave

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It isn't a problem. River cruising is usually limited by the effectiveness of the cooling system since it requires the engine to work hard for extended periods.

Vintage two cylinder engines aren't like the available modern 2 cylinder marinised engines such as the small Beta engines. Older slower revving engines have big cylinders and generate high torque as opposed to high power. That's far more useful for moving against a fast flow. Think of it as an HGV versus a sports car. Cruising at inland waterway speeds in a narrowboat requires less than 10hp.

JP

Edited by Captain Pegg

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6 minutes ago, shelly-123 said:

Laughing. Which one is very expensive ?

If you have to ask the price - you can't afford it....

£10k to £12.5k I think....

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I know of a rebuilt Kelvin K2 about to be for sale. 2 cylinder 44hp and more power than you would ever need for rivers. Looks and sounds lovely.

 

Let me know if you're interested.

 

Kind regards

Dan

 

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The problem is that, following new legislation brought in this year by a bunch of Bruxellois spoilsports who wouldn't know a narrowboat from a hole in the ground, you may not be able to have a vintage engine fitted in your new-build boat as it will not comply with E.U. memissions regulations.

 

But assuming that you could...

- You can get a new RN but not a new Gardner ( the last 2LW was built about 1999).

- A new RN DM2 will cost about £16,000.

- You can get fully rebuilt 2LWs, i.e. they are old on the outside (the engine was in production from 1931 to 1973 and then again in the '90s so some of the outsides are VERY old) but new inside. These would probably be cheaper than an RN. I paid £11,000 for mine although that was in 2006.

I would suggest that you should seek an existing boat which suits your needs (and whose vintage engine will be legal if the boat was built up to the end of 2016).

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  You need to make sure you have room for a larger prop too, 43 hp Beta and similar = probably 18" prop. 44hp Kelvin = I don't know for sure but I guess 20" plus.

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1 minute ago, Bee said:

  You need to make sure you have room for a larger prop too, 43 hp Beta and similar = probably 18" prop. 44hp Kelvin = I don't know for sure but I guess 20" plus.

Yes, our boat has a 22" one and there are certainly big-engined craft out there with blades up to 24".

But a boatbuilder will know this and design accordingly.

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48 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

If you have to ask the price - you can't afford it....

£10k to £12.5k I think....

Hi old goat !!!! didnt ask the price so Madam can afford it ...... Did ask what one was the most expensive, so thank you for prices.

46 minutes ago, stagedamager said:

I know of a rebuilt Kelvin K2 about to be for sale. 2 cylinder 44hp and more power than you would ever need for rivers. Looks and sounds lovely.

 

Let me know if you're interested.

 

Kind regards

Dan

 

Hi Dan will check it out on youtube and get back to you if interested

 

33 minutes ago, Athy said:

The problem is that, following new legislation brought in this year by a bunch of Bruxellois spoilsports who wouldn't know a narrowboat from a hole in the ground, you may not be able to have a vintage engine fitted in your new-build boat as it will not comply with E.U. memissions regulations.

 

But assuming that you could...

- You can get a new RN but not a new Gardner ( the last 2LW was built about 1999).

- A new RN DM2 will cost about £16,000.

- You can get fully rebuilt 2LWs, i.e. they are old on the outside (the engine was in production from 1931 to 1973 and then again in the '90s so some of the outsides are VERY old) but new inside. These would probably be cheaper than an RN. I paid £11,000 for mine although that was in 2006.

I would suggest that you should seek an existing boat which suits your needs (and whose vintage engine will be legal if the boat was built up to the end of 2016).

Hi 

I thought if it was a self build, and you kept in for 5 years that you were exempt from the RCD ?

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22 minutes ago, shelly-123 said:

I thought if it was a self build, and you kept in for 5 years that you were exempt from the RCD ?

In the first post you say "I am having a boat built...". 

If you build it yourself it is a self build. If you are having it built it is not.

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35 minutes ago, David Mack said:

In the first post you say "I am having a boat built...". 

If you build it yourself it is a self build. If you are having it built it is not.

Hi 

 

I am having the hull built by a boat bulider, and after that I am project managing the build using individual contractors and I do believe that is classed as a self build correct me if wrong ? not sure if going away from engines

 

Regards

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5 hours ago, dmr said:

Some 2 pots are "bigger" than others, the Gardner 2LW is probably the most powerful but they're pretty hard to get these days.

A Kelvin K2 would be a lot more powerful.

But ideally I think you would actually need to have a boat built to properly suit quite such a beast, (engine beds for instance).

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Engine beds are easy to add in at the build stage, there are several craft with the K2 in, and they certainly turn heads, but as mentioned above, with most vintage engines, it's all about the swim, and stern post depth. It would be good to know how far in the build is, who's building it, and max swingable prop.

Kind Regards

Dan 

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You say "a Gardner or Russell Newbery?" why?

What's wrong with a JP2 or an HA/HR air cooled, if you don't like Lister then go for a Dicky Mint Treacle two stroke.

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4 hours ago, Athy said:

- You can get a new RN but not a new Gardner ( the last 2LW was built about 1999).

Can you really, really, actually in practice.

I know they still advertise it as a possibility, but I'm seriously wondering when the last time was that they actually completed one, and it got put in a boat.

Does anybody know of any actual example in (say) the last 3 or 4 years?

4 minutes ago, stagedamager said:

There's also the AS2

Buy 5 and you might have enough bits to keep one running?

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