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eco-boat

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Hi Everyone,

Thought I better give you an update.

Firstly thanks to Alan for giving me precisely what I was asking for. It took a good few hours to begin to understand what the RCD2 was telling me. There were sentences in there that frequently referred to many other documents and subsections, so the reading didn't flow. And thank you to the others that gave constructive comments - I particularly liked the outboard idea.

The blog is very 'out of date'. I'll start writing on it again once the design is complete.

I think it is perfectly acceptable for a boat builder to say 'I don't know', when asked if an unknown engine from China meets all he EU legal regulations. All a boat builder needs to know is that an engine he is buying is conformant to current legislation. All he needs to hear is 'yes' from the engine supplier.

I'm not sure how I will end up using the boat. It will certainly be my home and I am most likely to be tied to a location due to work, so the amount of travelling is expected to be low. This is why I chose the generator strategy - I didn't want to be firing-up a 3L engine regularly to give me a few kWhrs of electricity..........unless I.......[read on]

The original idea was to have:- the entire roof area covered with solar PV; a huge bank of LiFePO batteries (30kWhrs); a fully heat recovered 10kW DC generator (CHP); and a huge electric motor to propeller the boat. I've spent a lot of time researching into the requisite technologies and sourcing components, and soon realised that the battery bank needs a Battery Management System (expensive and potentially unreliable), the motor needs a very heavy duty controller, the generator needs a sophisticated controller to allow it to provide power to the motor but not so much that it becomes over-loaded. I've then got to make sure that the solar PV MPPT charger fitted in with all that. Also, due to the power requirements of the motor, I would need the battery bank nominal voltage to be 96v, which means the inverter (to get it to 240VAC) would be quite rare and therefore expensive. And then there's still a lack of 12VDC supply and a bow thruster would have to be AC driven. All these extra components are what bust my budget and not to mention added huge complexity.

At the same time, the guy who is designing my propeller said that the best the motor could do for me and my boat is 4knotts. The motor is rated at 20kW but can push up to 50kW for short periods. That sounds adequate to me but electric motors have very different characteristics to IC engines - beyond a certain speed the torque starts to drop off so 4knotts is the best I could expect.

I've now decided to dump all this stuff and go for the traditional approach. I did go via a few commercially available existing hybrid marine systems but the price got in the way again.

My current plan is to separate travel power from living power. I'll have lots of solar panels for power and a multi-fuel stove with back boiler for heat. That should suffice in the brighter months but if I do need to run the engine for power, I'll keep the running time to a minimum by using a 190Amp alternator regulated at 28.4v (with a 24v battery bank). The alternator is water-cooled and I'll recover exhaust and coolant heat too so I'm not gonna be short there.

It's been a long and sometimes frustrating journey, but I can't say I haven't enjoyed it. I'm that kinda bloke.

Now, while I'm making fundamental decisions about my boat, does anybody have any opinions on toilet technologies? :D

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1 hour ago, cobaltcodd said:

maybe weld a mounting plate at the back that can take a small second hand outboard motor.  Use this to push you around the marina or wherever at low speed.  When you want to do your proper fit, sell the motor and cut off the plate.

Or just keep the outboard, get another one, mounted on the other side,forget the generator.

Buy sone nice second hand sculls from Leander, and start boating.

 

25 minutes ago, eco-boat said:

Hi Everyone,

 

Now, while I'm making fundamental decisions about my boat, does anybody have any opinions on toilet technologies? :D

For a bloke like you, I think combustable is the way to go [or not]

 

Edited by LadyG
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2 hours ago, cobaltcodd said:

maybe weld a mounting plate at the back that can take a small second hand outboard motor.  Use this to push you around the marina or wherever at low speed.  When you want to do your proper fit, sell the motor and cut off the plate.

Saw this today, not a very good photo but its a 12 volt electric outboard mounted on the rudder

DSCF9471small.jpg

2 hours ago, cobaltcodd said:

maybe weld a mounting plate at the back that can take a small second hand outboard motor.  Use this to push you around the marina or wherever at low speed.  When you want to do your proper fit, sell the motor and cut off the plate.

Saw this today, not a very good photo but its a 12 volt electric outboard mounted on the rudder

2 hours ago, cobaltcodd said:

maybe weld a mounting plate at the back that can take a small second hand outboard motor.  Use this to push you around the marina or wherever at low speed.  When you want to do your proper fit, sell the motor and cut off the plate.

Saw this today, not a very good photo but its a 12 volt electric outboard mounted on the rudder

2 hours ago, cobaltcodd said:

maybe weld a mounting plate at the back that can take a small second hand outboard motor.  Use this to push you around the marina or wherever at low speed.  When you want to do your proper fit, sell the motor and cut off the plate.

Saw this today, not a very good photo but its a 12 volt electric outboard mounted on the rudder

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1 hour ago, eco-boat said:

Hi Everyone,

Thought I better give you an update.

Firstly thanks to Alan for giving me precisely what I was asking for. It took a good few hours to begin to understand what the RCD2 was telling me. There were sentences in there that frequently referred to many other documents and subsections, so the reading didn't flow. And thank you to the others that gave constructive comments - I particularly liked the outboard idea.

The blog is very 'out of date'. I'll start writing on it again once the design is complete.

I think it is perfectly acceptable for a boat builder to say 'I don't know', when asked if an unknown engine from China meets all he EU legal regulations. All a boat builder needs to know is that an engine he is buying is conformant to current legislation. All he needs to hear is 'yes' from the engine supplier.

I'm not sure how I will end up using the boat. It will certainly be my home and I am most likely to be tied to a location due to work, so the amount of travelling is expected to be low. This is why I chose the generator strategy - I didn't want to be firing-up a 3L engine regularly to give me a few kWhrs of electricity..........unless I.......[read on]

The original idea was to have:- the entire roof area covered with solar PV; a huge bank of LiFePO batteries (30kWhrs); a fully heat recovered 10kW DC generator (CHP); and a huge electric motor to propeller the boat. I've spent a lot of time researching into the requisite technologies and sourcing components, and soon realised that the battery bank needs a Battery Management System (expensive and potentially unreliable), the motor needs a very heavy duty controller, the generator needs a sophisticated controller to allow it to provide power to the motor but not so much that it becomes over-loaded. I've then got to make sure that the solar PV MPPT charger fitted in with all that. Also, due to the power requirements of the motor, I would need the battery bank nominal voltage to be 96v, which means the inverter (to get it to 240VAC) would be quite rare and therefore expensive. And then there's still a lack of 12VDC supply and a bow thruster would have to be AC driven. All these extra components are what bust my budget and not to mention added huge complexity.

At the same time, the guy who is designing my propeller said that the best the motor could do for me and my boat is 4knotts. The motor is rated at 20kW but can push up to 50kW for short periods. That sounds adequate to me but electric motors have very different characteristics to IC engines - beyond a certain speed the torque starts to drop off so 4knotts is the best I could expect.

I've now decided to dump all this stuff and go for the traditional approach. I did go via a few commercially available existing hybrid marine systems but the price got in the way again.

My current plan is to separate travel power from living power. I'll have lots of solar panels for power and a multi-fuel stove with back boiler for heat. That should suffice in the brighter months but if I do need to run the engine for power, I'll keep the running time to a minimum by using a 190Amp alternator regulated at 28.4v (with a 24v battery bank). The alternator is water-cooled and I'll recover exhaust and coolant heat too so I'm not gonna be short there.

It's been a long and sometimes frustrating journey, but I can't say I haven't enjoyed it. I'm that kinda bloke.

Now, while I'm making fundamental decisions about my boat, does anybody have any opinions on toilet technologies? :D

I thought electric motors produced a constant torque or at least mine does a lynch d135

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10 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I thought electric motors produced a constant torque or at least mine does a lynch d135

Not true. All electric motors have a torque curve that approximates the inverse of the speed curve. Here’s the graph for your Lynch:

http://lynchmotors.co.uk/pdfs/lmc-lem-200.pdf

My guess is that he meant that the power drops off. The power curve of an electric motor is a bell curve with max power more or less at the centre of the torque and speed curves.  

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3 hours ago, cobaltcodd said:

maybe weld a mounting plate at the back that can take a small second hand outboard motor.  Use this to push you around the marina or wherever at low speed.  When you want to do your proper fit, sell the motor and cut off the plate.

Saw this today a small electric outboard mounted on the rudder of a steel boat about 25 foot long. It looks as if there is even a cut out in the rudder blade for the prop to spin

 

DSCF9471small.jpg

Edited by ditchcrawler
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48 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Not true. All electric motors have a torque curve that approximates the inverse of the speed curve. Here’s the graph for your Lynch:

http://lynchmotors.co.uk/pdfs/lmc-lem-200.pdf

My guess is that he meant that the power drops off. The power curve of an electric motor is a bell curve with max power more or less at the centre of the torque and speed curves.  

I think I had looked at the efficiency of the motor :blush: and not the torque

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5 hours ago, eco-boat said:

 

The motor is rated at 20kW but can push up to 50kW for short periods. That sounds adequate to me but electric motors have very different characteristics to IC engines - beyond a certain speed the torque starts to drop off so 4knotts is the best I could expect.

So the motor has a continuous rating of about 15hp with plenty in reserve. Thats plenty to push a narrow boat along at canal and river speeds, as long as the rotational speed is correct (for which you may need a gearbox) and the prop is appropriately sized (and not constrained by the hull design).

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