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Looking to buy - unsure of what age to look for?


JamesGrant

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12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

What I am really saying is that whilst you can live in a small boat just take the opportunity to 'go as big as you can' and remember a 50 foot boat will (should) double your 'living area' compared to a poorly designed 40 foot boat.

Yes, though the 50-footer is perhaps not ideal for living on. On the plus side it has both a cratch cover and a pram hood, which provide extra interior space. It has two sources of heating, solid fuel stove and central heating. But it does appear to lack storage space; also, a boat of that length should really have somewhere permanent where you can eat (though I appreciate that there is space for a free-standing table in the saloon).. The modest price may reflect condition, or the fact that the builder is virtually unknown (to me anyway).

   As for the 40-footer, its interior does indeed display some charm, but the design is weird and the interior space, as Alan says, limited at best.

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1 hour ago, JamesGrant said:

Currently, I'm renting a house with a housemate and the rent alone is £825 a month, then factor in bills etc and you can see why a narrowboat is attractive.

 

I still think you be doing it because you WANT to live on a boat, not because you've worked out its cheaper. It might yet not be.

Have a read of this thread:

 

In particular Post 136 by Jim Batty:

"Exactly right. Live on a boat only if you really want to live on a BOAT. Then, the extra physical work in keeping it all going (locking, pump-out, water-filling, hauling groceries down the towpath, etc...) will result in the great payoff of ... living on your own boat. Exactly where you want to be ... in the middle of nowhere ... with oddball boaters, waterfowl and trees for friends ... a lonely spiral of coal smoke marking out your rural existance ... yet ... tentatively ... plugged in ... wirelessly ... to the cyber hive ... if you can see a communications mast. (Or, insert your own version of a floating fantasy here)."

 

Plenty of discussion of the relative costs of houses and boats in that thread too.

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3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

If that's your main reason for wanting a boat to live on, please think again. Its a harder life than it looks from the outside looking in.

I also wonder if you've missed off some costs. If you brutally compare like with like (or do a proper 'whole of life' comparison) it isn't usually cheaper than a house. 

The boat for example, is unlikely to appreciate much in value over ten or twenty years, whereas a house usually does.  

Heed this post it is very true you have to Want and PREFER a boat over a house or you will not last. Also when buying a boat I will list now the three most important things you need to consider in order of importance

1/ The HULL

2/ The HULL

3/ The HULL

Oh and have fun :)

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7 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Heed this post it is very true you have to Want and PREFER a boat over a house or you will not last. Also when buying a boat I will list now the three most important things you need to consider in order of importance

1/ The HULL

2/ The HULL

3/ The HULL

Oh and have fun :)

So if Location,Location,Location = Hull,Hull,Hull. Your sorted,sorted,sorted:)(unless its No 1 fish dock)

Edited by rusty69
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Both of these boats have been 'tarted up' to appeal to liveaboards (?) - and targeted on being marina based, because they rely on a mains power supply - if you want to have the expense of a marina - then that's fine.

In addition to others' comments 

Tipsy Gypsy

  • Has a small engine with only one alternator (probably small as well). However the electrical demands are quite high as the Eberspacher and the fridge need a reasonable battery bank. There are a lot of 240V sockets - confirming my thoughts about being marina based.
  • The rust well above the waterline needs investigating and treating

Little Toad

Given that the boat has been painted all round - inside and out, I wonder why the engine bay has been let untouched - rust 'n all. It's far too small to be usable and the electrical appliances point towards it being more suitable for marina living. 

 

 

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The demand for narrowboats at the moment makes it a very bad time to be trying to enter the market. Maybe not so bad if you have something to sell, but brokers are falling over themselves to get used stock so you get folk chopping in their tired old boats for something newer/bigger and these boats get offloaded to budget buyers who have no idea what they're doing.  £25k might have got something half decent to live on five or six years ago, but these days it covers boats that are potentially serious money pits.  

I'd echo what others have said about the cost of boat living, the appeal is simply the lower initial capital cost, in every other respect it is cheaper to live in a house.  £25k might not seem like much when considering the price of property these days but I'd still think very, very, carefully before throwing it at an old boat.  

It's not an "alternative" lifestyle if it appears to be your only choice.

 

 

 

 

         

 

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21 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

The demand for narrowboats at the moment makes it a very bad time to be trying to enter the market. Maybe not so bad if you have something to sell, but brokers are falling over themselves to get used stock so you get folk chopping in their tired old boats for something newer/bigger and these boats get offloaded to budget buyers who have no idea what they're doing.  £25k might have got something half decent to live on five or six years ago, but these days it covers boats that are potentially serious money pits.  

I'd echo what others have said about the cost of boat living, the appeal is simply the lower initial capital cost, in every other respect it is cheaper to live in a house.  £25k might not seem like much when considering the price of property these days but I'd still think very, very, carefully before throwing it at an old boat.  

It's not an "alternative" lifestyle if it appears to be your only choice.

 

 

 

 

         

 

Again a completely true post. We owned our house so only had about a grand council tax yearly and gas /leccy was national grid so usual cheap prices we used the house for holidays and lived on our boat which we also own/owned and the overheads and running costs are much much more, as a for instance the grand only covers the licence never mind the 3.5k mooring etc etc.

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12 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Again a completely true post. We owned our house so only had about a grand council tax yearly and gas /leccy was national grid so usual cheap prices we used the house for holidays and lived on our boat which we also own/owned and the overheads and running costs are much much more, as a for instance the grand only covers the licence never mind the 3.5k mooring etc etc.

Agree wholeheartedly. We live in a house paid for years ago, and it's not small (Council Tax band D). Once you count mooring, licensing, insurance and general running costs the boat costs far more per year to run than the house, even with its ancient gas-fuelled Aga.

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4 hours ago, chubby said:

I live on my narrowboat . There was of course a sizeable payment when i bought it . In 4.5 years ive owned it - my first boat ive also spent a fair amount in improvements , servicing , maintenence etc  .

I have a mooring , i have insurance , i have RCR cover , i have a license . 

It is CONSIDERABLY cheaper than renting a flat . If i CC'd it would be cheaper still . I dont live on my boat cos its cheaper . I live on my boat cos its BETTER .... by a country mile .

All this negativity  about overheads , and how theyre greater than my home etc is wearyingly boring ..... .

Well done to those who " played the property game " and won . " Weve a got a big house , didn t we do well , weve got boat aswell , aren t we marvellous " . " Our boat coats more than our house - so dont even think about buying a boat as its an expensive thing to own " 

It all reminds me of the Harry Enfield character who always comments " Excuse me Sonny , but me and the wife couldn t help but notice that we are considerably richer than yow "  in a brum accent .

Of course your house was cheaper . You probably bought it in the 60s 70s 80s 90s & have seen big increases in its value . Im not suggesting you ve had it easy but i am suggesting that things are more difficult in recent times . Folk - hard working , honest folk just like yourselves cannot get the homes they want the buy because they cannot keep up with the insane prices of home buying . If one is stuck in a cycle of renting in order to fund someone elses lifestyle is not likely that one will look to altetnatives ? 

In times past one bought a home to live in , raise a family etc . Property nowadays is bought up by investors aswell thus removing the opportunity to those whod like to buy . 

So some folk - usually old , retired types or close to it did well . Good for them . But all this " dont buy a boat unless you love it etc " is bollocks . 

Is it so far beyond imagination that someone can buy a boat for one reason ( finances ) and stay on it for other reasons ( cos they then fell in love with it ) ? 

I expect there are several members of this forum who would fit my question above . But i doubt many would question thier motives 

The OP sounds to me like theyve got thier head screwed on . Asking the right questions. Theyve spent time in campervans - so what they haven t lived in it . The OP doesn t sound like he wants a lavish lifestyle and would infact actively  embrace the simplicity of boat living . It sounds actually as if the only thing missing is a larger budget . 

People are slowly waking up to the idea that working your knackers off all your life to pay a mortgage isn t the be all and end all of the three score years and ten that good fortune has blessed us with by being born in the first place . Why spend that lifetime working working working if its just to pay rent because the country they live in is such a f*** up that it cannot house its own population . 

So all this " it aint cheaper " is tosh - because it is cheaper by a long way , & its better by long way than renting a crappy house to pay a landlords investment off 

Yes - there will expenses & some of them may well end up very costly. Buying a boat , especially the first is frought with insecurity , anxiety & worry because the initial cost of buying involves a sizeable chunk of money . Concern is only natural . If one buys a boat its warts n all and if a buyer is unlucky or not diligent enough the costs can be eye watering . 

These things the OP should be made aware of - quite rightly . But i personally find all this " don t do it unless u wanna do it " boring , negative and if really honest a bit snobbish .....

Thats all folks 

cheers

 

 

Mostly quite true but facts are that over many years I have seen people come and nearly always go because they thought the life was cheap and easy. A smashing young couple arrived here a couple of years ago whilst the girl was pregnant, one year later with a baby in arms after a fairly mild winter they abandoned the boat and sold it never to return, I have seen the sceanarion countless times over several years. I agree most youngsters cannot afford property theses days but its very true to say that the running costs of an owned boat are far more than the running costs of an owned house. I also agree that boat ownership must look better than dead money renting property but facts are that vast majority of people don't last long living full time when reality of the life sets in.

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2 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Mostly quite true but facts are that over many years I have seen people come and nearly always go because they thought the life was cheap and easy. A smashing young couple arrived here a couple of years ago whilst the girl was pregnant, one year later with a baby in arms after a fairly mild winter they abandoned the boat and sold it never to return, I have seen the sceanarion countless times over several years. I agree most youngsters cannot afford property theses days but its very true to say that the running costs of an owned boat are far more than the running costs of an owned house. I also agree that boat ownership must look better than dead money renting property but facts are that vast majority of people don't last long living full time when reality of the life sets in.

And i in turn agree with pretty much all you say . Ive lived aboard for only a fraction of the time  you have and i daresay you have seen folk come & go from the boating scene . 

Im not saying for one moment that its cheap . But that it is cheaper. Having said that if one is hit with big bills for boat repairs early on during boat ownership then it may well appear otherwise . 

If you own a home outright ( mortgage paid ) & a boat outright then it may well be the case that the boat works out more costly than the property . But then again youve had the opportunity to purchase the property in first place & those costs are behind you . As i mentioned previously im not suggesting that paying for the property was an easy ride over 25 years . But the opportunity was present & many quite rightly took the opportunity.

Thing is - thats not how it is anymore . I fear that many folk are simply looking at thier inability to acquire a mortgage & asking themselves " what is the point of working my socks off to pay some poxy landlords investments off because this situation isn t about to get better . Politicians aren t going to sort it out ,  & society mostly doesn t care because theyre just interested in themselves being alright " - at which point they begin to look at alternative ways of living . " 

The NIMBYism of " boats cost more than renting " is dreadful. I read it as " these canals are my playground - dont come living on them cos u can't afford it " . Disgraceful mentality . 

Mr Smelly - you ve seen folk come & go during your long years onboard . Some folk don t last . Some folk do . How can one really know unless they give it a shot ? IMO the best thing the OP can do is save as hard as they can to gather a greater budget together as thier current one is at a level where theyre on risky ground and will be looking at boats firmly in the bottom of the market . Better to wait , research , ask questions and if prepared to pursue boat ownership then do so with a higher budget which is of course still no guarantee of a decent boat .

I thought the OP sounded level headed and realistic & deserved good info . This he got - and its right to advise novices of the pitfalls possible and its right to suggest one can only really liveabord long term if they love it - but how can a novice no without taking tje plunge ultimately , but i was mightily annoyed by some of the comments about home ownership costing more than boat ownership . 

In years to come many will not know what home ownership feels like or they ll have to commit to a life of paying off student debt & home ownership debt and probably for thier entire working lifetime for reasons beyond thier control. Or live a different way maybe .

Those who are fortunate to have thier homes , thier security etc should IMO count thier blessings because many of thier childrens generation are unlikely to do so . 

cheers

Edited by chubby
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Thise two boats are much the same price, but one gets you 10 feet more space and a newer hull. The newer one has rust on the waterline, but the other has been overplated and is newly blacked,so you don't really know what is going on underneath. The BSC has expired. That moveable roof section on Little Toad is odd - it doesn't really work with the solar panels there. Both boats have discrepancies between the description and the photos, so check what is or isn't included.

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8 hours ago, chubby said:

I live on my narrowboat . There was of course a sizeable payment when i bought it . In 4.5 years ive owned it - my first boat ive also spent a fair amount in improvements , servicing , maintenence etc  .

I have a mooring , i have insurance , i have RCR cover , i have a license . 

It is CONSIDERABLY cheaper than renting a flat . If i CC'd it would be cheaper still . I dont live on my boat cos its cheaper . I live on my boat cos its BETTER .... by a country mile .

All this negativity  about overheads , and how theyre greater than my home etc is wearyingly boring ..... .

Well done to those who " played the property game " and won . " Weve a got a big house , didn t we do well , weve got boat aswell , aren t we marvellous " . " Our boat coats more than our house - so dont even think about buying a boat as its an expensive thing to own " 

It all reminds me of the Harry Enfield character who always comments " Excuse me Sonny , but me and the wife couldn t help but notice that we are considerably richer than yow "  in a brum accent .

Of course your house was cheaper . You probably bought it in the 60s 70s 80s 90s & have seen big increases in its value . Im not suggesting you ve had it easy but i am suggesting that things are more difficult in recent times . Folk - hard working , honest folk just like yourselves cannot get the homes they want the buy because they cannot keep up with the insane prices of home buying . If one is stuck in a cycle of renting in order to fund someone elses lifestyle is not likely that one will look to altetnatives ? 

In times past one bought a home to live in , raise a family etc . Property nowadays is bought up by investors aswell thus removing the opportunity to those whod like to buy . 

So some folk - usually old , retired types or close to it did well . Good for them . But all this " dont buy a boat unless you love it etc " is bollocks . 

Is it so far beyond imagination that someone can buy a boat for one reason ( finances ) and stay on it for other reasons ( cos they then fell in love with it ) ? 

I expect there are several members of this forum who would fit my question above . But i doubt many would question thier motives 

The OP sounds to me like theyve got thier head screwed on . Asking the right questions. Theyve spent time in campervans - so what they haven t lived in it . The OP doesn t sound like he wants a lavish lifestyle and would infact actively  embrace the simplicity of boat living . It sounds actually as if the only thing missing is a larger budget . 

People are slowly waking up to the idea that working your knackers off all your life to pay a mortgage isn t the be all and end all of the three score years and ten that good fortune has blessed us with by being born in the first place . Why spend that lifetime working working working if its just to pay rent because the country they live in is such a f*** up that it cannot house its own population . 

So all this " it aint cheaper " is tosh - because it is cheaper by a long way , & its better by long way than renting a crappy house to pay a landlords investment off 

Yes - there will expenses & some of them may well end up very costly. Buying a boat , especially the first is frought with insecurity , anxiety & worry because the initial cost of buying involves a sizeable chunk of money . Concern is only natural . If one buys a boat its warts n all and if a buyer is unlucky or not diligent enough the costs can be eye watering . 

These things the OP should be made aware of - quite rightly . But i personally find all this " don t do it unless u wanna do it " boring , negative and if really honest a bit snobbish .....

Thats all folks 

cheers

 

 

Chubby, thank you so much for your post. I was starting to get disheartened (but not deterred!) and your post really perked me and my girlfriend up.

I think as you pointed out, most people seem to have missed the point that I don't own a house or have a mortgage. You're bang on the money, I'm young and I'm already fed up of not being able to afford to live the way society is going and i'm looking for alternatives. I'd rather live on a boat, have more money and more time to do what I want to do and love rather than working constantly to end up in a coffin having got nowhere in life. I'm almost sure that having time to do what I want and love will in turn make me love the boat life.

Of course, people are still shouting "but you must want to live on a boat, not because it's cheaper" well the truth is as i said before it's been playing on my mind for the last 6 to 8 months so it's not a fleeting thought. We went to see our friends who have lived on a 30ft cruiser stern for the last two years and they couldn't be happier. (Just like to point out theirs is a springer and only cost £15k but it's bloody amazing and just passed it's hull survey). So yes, I do want to live on a boat and not just because it's cheaper. Maybe we won't like it, but as Chubby said, we won't know for sure until we try. We're actually looking forward to downsizing and simplifying our lives. Yes it's one thing to go away in a campervan for two weeks compared to living on a boat but the truth is, when we go away in our van, we have showers, in winter, outside in the freezing cold with boiled water from a pan fed through a solar shower. So yeah, we're used to difficult, I wonder how many people who live on a boat have done this?

In terms of costs, trust me it still works out cheaper even when moored compared to the costs of renting here with bills. I fully understand if you own a house it costs more because you are paying for mooring fees where you don't pay them fees in a house, but a loan for a boat plus mooring fees still comes in less than my rent a month.

Unfortunately as well, our budget will not allow us to get a massive boat that's nice and new because I'm simply not well off and let's be honest, if I had the money you'd still be telling me no in case I didn't like it. That's the whole idea, we get something a little cheaper that we won't lose much money on hopefully and we can test the water, excuse the pun.

We have received some fantastic advice on the thread as well, so thanks for everyone who has contributed and I know some will have genuine concern and don't want to see us regret the choice. At the end of the day, that was what the original post was about, asking for help so we didn't make a mistake.

 

 

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9 hours ago, chubby said:

I live on my narrowboat . There was of course a sizeable payment when i bought it . In 4.5 years ive owned it - my first boat ive also spent a fair amount in improvements , servicing , maintenence etc  .

I have a mooring , i have insurance , i have RCR cover , i have a license . 

It is CONSIDERABLY cheaper than renting a flat . If i CC'd it would be cheaper still . I dont live on my boat cos its cheaper . I live on my boat cos its BETTER .... by a country mile .

All this negativity  about overheads , and how theyre greater than my home etc is wearyingly boring ..... .

Well done to those who " played the property game " and won . " Weve a got a big house , didn t we do well , weve got boat aswell , aren t we marvellous " . " Our boat coats more than our house - so dont even think about buying a boat as its an expensive thing to own " 

It all reminds me of the Harry Enfield character who always comments " Excuse me Sonny , but me and the wife couldn t help but notice that we are considerably richer than yow "  in a brum accent .

Of course your house was cheaper . You probably bought it in the 60s 70s 80s 90s & have seen big increases in its value . Im not suggesting you ve had it easy but i am suggesting that things are more difficult in recent times . Folk - hard working , honest folk just like yourselves cannot get the homes they want the buy because they cannot keep up with the insane prices of home buying . If one is stuck in a cycle of renting in order to fund someone elses lifestyle is not likely that one will look to altetnatives ? 

In times past one bought a home to live in , raise a family etc . Property nowadays is bought up by investors aswell thus removing the opportunity to those whod like to buy . 

So some folk - usually old , retired types or close to it did well . Good for them . But all this " dont buy a boat unless you love it etc " is bollocks . 

Is it so far beyond imagination that someone can buy a boat for one reason ( finances ) and stay on it for other reasons ( cos they then fell in love with it ) ? 

I expect there are several members of this forum who would fit my question above . But i doubt many would question thier motives 

The OP sounds to me like theyve got thier head screwed on . Asking the right questions. Theyve spent time in campervans - so what they haven t lived in it . The OP doesn t sound like he wants a lavish lifestyle and would infact actively  embrace the simplicity of boat living . It sounds actually as if the only thing missing is a larger budget . 

People are slowly waking up to the idea that working your knackers off all your life to pay a mortgage isn t the be all and end all of the three score years and ten that good fortune has blessed us with by being born in the first place . Why spend that lifetime working working working if its just to pay rent because the country they live in is such a f*** up that it cannot house its own population . 

So all this " it aint cheaper " is tosh - because it is cheaper by a long way , & its better by long way than renting a crappy house to pay a landlords investment off 

Yes - there will expenses & some of them may well end up very costly. Buying a boat , especially the first is frought with insecurity , anxiety & worry because the initial cost of buying involves a sizeable chunk of money . Concern is only natural . If one buys a boat its warts n all and if a buyer is unlucky or not diligent enough the costs can be eye watering . 

These things the OP should be made aware of - quite rightly . But i personally find all this " don t do it unless u wanna do it " boring , negative and if really honest a bit snobbish .....

Thats all folks 

cheers

 

 

 

Jeez...

People were saying exactly the same sort of thing in 1976 when houses cost £6,000. 

I bought my first boat to live on because I couldn't raise a £5k mortgage and house prices were rising faster than I could save up a deposit. I totally gave up on the idea of buying a house an was even angrier than you sound about the state of the property market.

Plus ca change.

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5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Jeez...

People were saying exactly the same sort of thing in 1976 when houses cost £6,000. 

I bought my first boat to live on because I couldn't raise a £5k mortgage and house prices were rising faster than I could save up a deposit. I totally gave up on the idea of buying a house an was even angrier than you sound about the state of the property market.

Plus ca change.

Amen to that.

I recall feeling exactly the same way 35 years ago - and blaming the previous generation...   

   

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11 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

Amen to that.

I recall feeling exactly the same way 35 years ago - and blaming the previous generation...   

   

 

Thank you.

Chubby touched a nerve with me with his post as I happen to be one of those who has done well out of property as it happens. Pure luck, when life dealt me an ace, thanks to Windsor and Maidenhead Council evicting me from the mooring, then offering me a house mortgage when no-one else would.

So I got a house because of living on a boat!!

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On 19/09/2017 at 13:54, JamesGrant said:

Thanks. Yes we have been trying to look at the outside but obviously you can't see what's below the water.

Yeah, we have added all the costs up. It's still cheaper than a house!

Its a bit cheaper than renting but not nearly as good as owning a house. If there is any way that you can get the deposit to buy a house then do that, houses go up in value, boats go down. You can then get somebody else to live in the house and pay you money whilst you live in the boat.   

No, thinking about it thats rubbish, just get a boat and live for today!

.............Dave

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17 minutes ago, dmr said:

Its a bit cheaper than renting but not nearly as good as owning a house. If there is any way that you can get the deposit to buy a house then do that, houses go up in value, boats go down. You can then get somebody else to live in the house and pay you money whilst you live in the boat.   

 

Stand by to be ex-communicated for such monstrous heresy.

18 minutes ago, dmr said:

No, thinking about it thats rubbish, just get a boat and live for today!

.............Dave

 

Forgiven!

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On 19/09/2017 at 15:21, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

If that's your main reason for wanting a boat to live on, please think again. Its a harder life than it looks from the outside looking in.

I also wonder if you've missed off some costs. If you brutally compare like with like (or do a proper 'whole of life' comparison) it isn't usually cheaper than a house. 

The boat for example, is unlikely to appreciate much in value over ten or twenty years, whereas a house usually does.  

Well said, we lived aboard for over 10 years. Sold up now, live in a small cottage. Much cheaper and easier on land. The boat was fun at times, but as others have said it needs commitment and isn't for everyone. To the OP please hire a boat over the next few weeks as cold and darkness approaches and see how you get on.

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20 minutes ago, Laurie.Booth said:

All this talk about what is cheaper etc...

Must depend on where you are living.

Renting a flat in Chelsea is far more expensive than living on boat.

Renting a flat in Burnley is cheaper than living on a boat.

In fact buying a house in Burnley is cheaper than a boat.

:)

How much is a flat in burnley then?

I am paying £600 a month in maureen fees....

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On 19/09/2017 at 13:26, JamesGrant said:

Thanks. Yes we went there on Saturday - we got a good idea but we did feel that they were probably slightly overpriced compared to what we had seen elsewhere. We are trying to look past the state of the inside to make it our own but of course it sometimes gives an idea of how the boat has been treated.

re Whilton prices, as far as i am aware  you could offer 10 to 15%, even 20%  less if you so choose.

You have to be careful about survey, use your own, and be prepared to walk away, ask if a price will be adjusted if there is essential repairs.

A private sale should in theory be approx £1000 less than thru a broker.

Edited by LadyG
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On 19/09/2017 at 21:23, Neil2 said:

I'd echo what others have said about the cost of boat living, the appeal is simply the lower initial capital cost, in every other respect it is cheaper to live in a house.

But unless you're a cash buyer, the initial capital cost of a house translates into an ongoing mortgage cost. If the choice you face is between buying a boat outright, and putting down a deposit and buying a flat with a £600-a-month mortgage (say), the question of whether annual costs for fuel, maintenance etc. are a bit higher in a flat or in a boat is pretty much moot.

On 19/09/2017 at 21:46, mrsmelly said:

Again a completely true post. We owned our house so only had about a grand council tax yearly and gas /leccy was national grid so usual cheap prices we used the house for holidays and lived on our boat which we also own/owned and the overheads and running costs are much much more, as a for instance the grand only covers the licence never mind the 3.5k mooring etc etc.

But there you're comparing the cost of living in a house with zero mortgage/rent, to the cost of living on a boat with a £3.5k a year mooring. Again, the calculation looks completely different to someone weighing 25 or 30 years of mortgage payments against buying a boat, which may have a cheaper mooring or no mooring at all.

22 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

Agree wholeheartedly. We live in a house paid for years ago, and it's not small (Council Tax band D). Once you count mooring, licensing, insurance and general running costs the boat costs far more per year to run than the house, even with its ancient gas-fuelled Aga.

Again, you're talking about 'a house paid for years ago' with mortgage/rent costs that now happen to be zero. Yes, it illustrates a point about month-to-month living costs, but to most people surely housing costs are the biggest expense and so the biggest concern.

It all feels a bit like someone comparing the cost of boat living on a freehold mooring he owns outright, to the cost of house living in a place that costs £800 in rent. It doesn't justify any sort of generalisation about the cost of living on a boat vs. in a house.

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I note that you have not selected the old fashioned varnished pine tongue and groove, which most boats were lined out with pre 1990 [i think].

These can be sanded [lightened] or even painted white!

So you want to live in light airy and modern[ish] boat, I suggest that as well as looking at boats which have been "mocked up" to sell to folks like yourself, that you take a good look for boats that have been owned by some old geezer, who looked after "his" boat rather than bothers about  modernisation.

It is easy to quickly look at a few photos and reject out of hand.

What I now do, is to use a spreadsheet, which has about six columns, 

web address

length

price 

age

special features [eg new engine!] particularly good builder, I have builders I avoid too....

heating source 1

heating source 2

solar

electrics

notes

I have about five "essential criteria": solid fuel stove, well maintained, charm[aesthetics] , good electrical installation, price [value] essential spend.

I must have a nice pointy bit [cratch]  not a short stub as I envisage sitting reading in comfort and privacy.

Now, if I like a boat and it needs solar, I price that at £1000

If I like a boat and it needs a stove , I price that at £2000, cos as well as stove it probably needs other mods to saloon

If the boat looks as though it needs a skip, then fine, I ll get a skip and throw out chrome swivel bar stools/green shag carpet/ dirty gas cooker etc etc, and old light fittings , usually this boat needs LED  lighting/electrics upgrade so I "add "£1000, PLUS  a posh shower / wetroom [I add £1000 to £2500!, and good flooring and a new battery/electrics £1000. Pretty rough and ready , but you need to have some idea of how much its going to cost to get what you want.

A good clean double mattress is £500, and is something I will have as my desert island luxury item, its probably a 4ft mattress not a standard double.

So, I have about ten boats on my s/sheet and about the same on Appollo Duck watch list.

Half have been sold, two will not sell, and three will sell fairly soon.

Most have a good builder for hull and for fit out

By doing it all logically, I have got my shopping list

£34 to £45k [asking price], 

often one which some kind person has spent cash on then given up, 

and 40 to 53 feet. modern engine.

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=535987 ... not madly excited about this one, but it ticks a few boxes, I won't buy it, but it is a goodcomparison.

this one is more your price, its been on sale for a bit, imagine it with a tin of paint and fresh upholstery/carpets/laminate, BUT it has a fatal flaw for you, ... no fixed double bed, its quirky, 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=533214

I think a Porta Potti / cassette loo is best value, I' d really be worried about pumpout , too many things to go wrong. 

Hope that gives you food for thought, it took me about two months to pick out a "nice boat", and I have had lots of sailing experince, so it was just trying to identify features of narrowboats.

Of course there are some nice cruisers, on the Broads, .....

 

 

Edited by LadyG
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