Windows 10 is actually a virus, discuss

[MtB]

5 hours ago, reg said:

If you want things done for you then its windows

If you want maximum flexibilty then, for me its Linux.

Horses for courses

 

I'd just like something I can run all my much loved legacy Win 98 and XP applications on, which isn't XP and doesn't keep helping itself (without asking) to my expensive and limited mobile data allowance. 

Which horse should I be running, and on which course please? 

Edited November 26, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[Dr Bob]

I've been on a mac for 2 years now after 20+ years of PC. Only have to reboot once every two months rather than twice a day, new progs are usually 99% plug and play to install, and it's great for graphics. 

[reg]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I'd just like something I can run all my much loved legacy Win 98 and XP applications on

I changed the question round in my own mind to can I find something where I can use and process my legacy data files. Thinking about it this way I came to conclusion that yes I can largely achieve this in Mint. I only needed to gather up all of my data files and transfer them to Mint I then had to find linux applications that could process these files. To me it is the data that is important so to a large degree I can forget about the specific applications that are used.

My reason for wanting to change are pretty much what you and Wanderer have stated, constant updates, changes to the update rules, 'theft' of my 10gb monthly data allowance, taking over my pc when Microsoft decides I have a problem and then making a complete dogs dinner of trying to fix it. All of these reasons together with the Microsoft future direction which appears to be heading towards the rental model meant the only sensible option for me was to abandon Microsft altogether.

For me the horse i have chosen is Linux Mint but It has been a steep learning curve. The other hurdle was in adopting to the Linux culture and way of doing things, pretty much in tune with it now and am pleased that I have switched.

Edited To add

As I mentioned in my earlier post I still have Windows on a disk which i can plug in through a USB port having first made sure that my Wifi is switched off.

I think Microsoft have screwed up big time over the last couple of years and may well,long term,  end up with primarily corporate accounts and none tech savvy users who will be renting their software, maybe that is the plan or maybe Occam's razor applies and the just screwed up.

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by reg

[Jess--]

4 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Right. Been test driving mint for a couple of hours.

Compared to Lubuntu on my ancient netbook, it seems marginally slower, and slower to boot. It could be that i'm running it from a slow usb stick compared to my solid state hdd. On a plus side, it is much prettier than Lubuntu. 

your slowdown will almost certainly be down to the usb drive

your ssd will be capable of reading / writing gigabytes per second where a usb drive will be lucky to manage 100 megabytes reading, writing will be slower (unless it's on usb3).

In my case I am sticking with win 7 / office 2010 for now as I still have to administer a stack of windows servers, while the management tools do exist for linux most of them are clunky and limited compared to managing windows from windows (if I was working with linux servers I am sure I would find the opposite to be true)

I have just ordered one of these to test as an option for a low voltage pc that can run multiple screens, my plan is to throw in a 2.5" ssd with windows 7 on it instead of windows 10 but I will also be trying linux.

[dor]

6 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'd just like something I can run all my much loved legacy Win 98 and XP applications on, which isn't XP and doesn't keep helping itself (without asking) to my expensive and limited mobile data allowance. 

Which horse should I be running, and on which course please? 

I still run some old software that was released for WIN95. I also have a 20 year old DOS 4GL environment which I use daily.

Often, a software program won't install as the install program looks at the OS version  (e.g. WIN 9X - allegedly the reason why Windows went from 8 to 10) and if it doesn't recognise it says that it can't install.  However if you look on the disk for 'setup.exe' and run that from a command line as an administrator, it doesn't check the OS and will install.

Despite having been a "Unix guru" in a former life, I'm still reluctant to leave Windows.  It just seems to work for me and I don't get beset with the problems so many people report.  Maybe I'm just lucky!

[rusty69]

7 hours ago, Jess-- said:

your slowdown will almost certainly be down to the usb drive

your ssd will be capable of reading / writing gigabytes per second where a usb drive will be lucky to manage 100 megabytes reading, writing will be slower (unless it's on usb3

I have Lubuntu on another usb stick, so will give that a try today. Although it is a different make stick, it is from the same era as the one with mint on.

Neither are usb 3,or the netbook in-fact. 

[Allan(nb Albert)]

2 hours ago, dor said:

I still run some old software that was released for WIN95. I also have a 20 year old DOS 4GL environment which I use daily.

Often, a software program won't install as the install program looks at the OS version  (e.g. WIN 9X - allegedly the reason why Windows went from 8 to 10) and if it doesn't recognise it says that it can't install.  However if you look on the disk for 'setup.exe' and run that from a command line as an administrator, it doesn't check the OS and will install.

Despite having been a "Unix guru" in a former life, I'm still reluctant to leave Windows.  It just seems to work for me and I don't get beset with the problems so many people report.  Maybe I'm just lucky!

Our village has a club which provides support to older residents in the use of PC's/Laptops/Tablets/Phones. Over the last 18 months or so, the main problems we have found with WIN 10 are -

• Problems due to upgrading from earlier versions of WIN. Clean installs on old hardware and new hardware with WIN 10 already installed are generally OK.
• Problems with running software designed for previous versions of Windows (or even DOS!).
• Problems with updates. On my own machines, I prefer to use WUB (Windows Update Blocker) and delay updates for a week.
• Resistance to change/ WIN 10 learning curve. People prefer to use, say, old email client software, rather than the WIN 10 App.

Like dor, I don't get many problems with Windows myself, despite for a time being part of the Windows Insider Program and running 'slow lane' pre-release versions.

I currently run WIN 10 on one of my home PC's and Linux Mint 18.3 (Cinnamon) on the other. 

Where I have found WIN 10 very good is on a transformer notebook. It switches in and out of tablet mode (i.e. the metro interface) very easily. 

 

 

[WotEver]

10 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

sadly he let me down by telling me that the disc was 3 years old and hadn't been activated, so I've had to carry on with the crap Windows 10.

I don’t understand this. Two weeks ago I installed Win 7 Pro on an HP workstation that had previously been running XP Pro. The (official hologram) disk I used was an OEM disk and was several years old and had never been activated. Why do you believe that would be a problem?

[Wanderer Vagabond]

6 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I don’t understand this. Two weeks ago I installed Win 7 Pro on an HP workstation that had previously been running XP Pro. The (official hologram) disk I used was an OEM disk and was several years old and had never been activated. Why do you believe that would be a problem?

I didn't know whether it was a problem or not, the guy in the store said he couldn't install it because it hadn't been activated. I'd have been in heaven if he had done.

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I didn't know whether it was a problem or not, the guy in the store said he couldn't install it because it hadn't been activated. I'd have been in heaven if he had done.

He actually could have done. He’s talking out of his bottom. It’s a problem if it HAS been activated because MS won’t permit it to be activated twice. 

Loads of copies of Win7 on eBay for a fiver and plenty of instructions on the web about how to install it (although it’s pretty straightforward). Note though that from Win10 it will need to be a clean install - wipe everything from your drive and start again. 

[reg]

2 hours ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Where I have found WIN 10 very good is on a transformer notebook. It switches in and out of tablet mode (i.e. the metro interface) very easily. 

This  article explains why Microsoft have spent time on ensuring  that that feature works well it is an important step in their ongoing development.

I think the article also helps explain, although not explicitly, why it is important to Microsoft to get everyone onto Windows 10. A small quote from the article

"...to a more dictatorship-like ongoing release cycle, in which the operating system version itself will not change, but it will be regularly updated and maintained so that it gradually develops into a new operating system over the years without ever leaving the umbrella of the Windows 10 regime."

It appears that Microsoft will be taking a different direction in the future but it requires users to be on Windows 10 to be able to go forward. Basically Windows 10 appears to be a new starting point, this may be a good thing and lead to a more stable OS in the future. Unfortunately in their drive to 'force' everyone to get to this new starting point they have IMO made some technical and philosophical blunders, enough blunders to make some, including me, to say no more, thats a personal choice which I have the luxury of being able to make.

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2017 by reg

[Tony Brooks]

On 25/11/2017 at 10:55, the blind novice said:

Iobit uninstaller works for me. Use powerful  scan to remove all residue software hooks 

Thanks but that seems to be a Windoz application. I was testing Access 97 under WINE on Linux.

[Tony Brooks]

On 26/11/2017 at 16:49, reg said:

Thats how i read it. I wouldn't advocate Linux for general users as its more geared towards a development environment rather than an office or home use.

The main difference as I see it is that;

Windows tries to hide the underlying os from the user and tries to do everything for them, for a lot of users that is not a bad thing, for myself that is a bad thing.

Linux allows you as much access to the OS as you want and as much configuration as you want. That is what I require but it can be pretty cryptic at times trying to decipher where configuration files are and how to configure them, most of the info i have obtained is from the Internet some of it excellent, some of it not so excellent and some of it just plain wrong.

If you want things done for you then its windows

If you want maximum flexibilty then, for me its Linux.

Horses for courses

You can try it from a USB, much as JESS has done above^^. Has the advantage that you also have a recovery USB to hand if your machine should stick, also makes a complete reinstall a breeze.

 

I am not sure that is still the case. I have been dipping my toe into Linux for years and in the past would agree with you but not now. All I can talk about is Ubuntu and Mint, mainly Mint. I have tweaked it a bit but only via the inbuilt "click and point" tools so it looks very much like   Win XP and acts like it. The applications (apart from those I run under WINE look different and if anything have more tweeking options but you do not have to use the settings. The bulk of teh time I psent setting it up was with the WINE side of things but that was because of somewhat opaque instructions.

Where I will agree with you is that trying to find or get help for problems is very difficult because all the "experts" think anyone must use the command line and do it all by text, much like the old days of MSDOS etc.

If anyone is fed up with Microsoft and just want to get the job done the I would say Mint or Ubuntu and some other non-specialist distributions would be a very good bet. If you just have to run legacy Windoze applications then unless you want to mess with WINE that may or may not work (I was lucky) then is go with a supported version of Windoze or set up a dual boot system so you can work in either system.

One thing that does seem to let Linux/Mint down is the speed of printing. I suspect it is all done via Postcript so is very slow to compile and print pages compared with XP.

[reg]

4 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I am not sure that is still the case

You could be right, the point was also made in an earlier reply. Mint have made a very good job of making package installation a lot easier via the menu option

ADMINISTRATION  - SOFTWARE MANAGER

If anyone wants to try Mint out then they can pretty much install everything via the software manager. 

=================

Was having a ponder about the whole subject last night and came to the following conclusions

Windows future

. Always connected

. Software rental

. Automatic updates (with all of the problems associated with that including inability to back track and also the breaking of other products) 

. Push towards cloud based systems

===========

Linux

. Connect when you want

. Use software you want, reject it and try something else if necessary

. Use of cloud is optional

. Update as and when required. 

. Backtrack and reinstall as much as you want, no real restrictions

The model that Linux gives is for me but I can see that the windows model may suit, or a least be tolerated by, some. 

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by reg

[Dave_P]

I bought my first iphone in 2009 on a workplace deal which made it ludicrously cheap.  I was so impressed with it that I bought a macbook shortly after.  I still have it.  It still works fine but has slowed a little.  All the applications work fine and 'understand' each other, and my phone.  It has frozen a couple of times in 8 years of daily use.  Last month I was feeling frivolous so bought a macbook air while a deal was on.  I took it home, logged in and off I went.  

I have dim and distant memories of the blue screen of death and random error messages, but they can't hurt me any more.

[rusty69]

The only thing I like about Apple is their  share price

[Dr Bob]

39 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

I have dim and distant memories of the blue screen of death and random error messages, but they can't hurt me any more.

+1

[carlt]

On 26/11/2017 at 23:16, Dr Bob said:

I've been on a mac for 2 years now after 20+ years of PC. Only have to reboot once every two months rather than twice a day, new progs are usually 99% plug and play to install, and it's great for graphics. 

I run Windows 7 on this laptop and Windows 10 on my desktop and I can't recall the last time I rebooted either.

Am I doing something wrong?

[Allan(nb Albert)]

19 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I am not sure that is still the case. I have been dipping my toe into Linux for years and in the past would agree with you but not now. All I can talk about is Ubuntu and Mint, mainly Mint. I have tweaked it a bit but only via the inbuilt "click and point" tools so it looks very much like   Win XP and acts like it. The applications (apart from those I run under WINE look different and if anything have more tweeking options but you do not have to use the settings. The bulk of teh time I psent setting it up was with the WINE side of things but that was because of somewhat opaque instructions.

Where I will agree with you is that trying to find or get help for problems is very difficult because all the "experts" think anyone must use the command line and do it all by text, much like the old days of MSDOS etc.

If anyone is fed up with Microsoft and just want to get the job done the I would say Mint or Ubuntu and some other non-specialist distributions would be a very good bet. If you just have to run legacy Windoze applications then unless you want to mess with WINE that may or may not work (I was lucky) then is go with a supported version of Windoze or set up a dual boot system so you can work in either system.

One thing that does seem to let Linux/Mint down is the speed of printing. I suspect it is all done via Postcript so is very slow to compile and print pages compared with XP.

Yesterday, I was at my local village hall helping residents with IT problems. One problem I looked at was a WIN 10 laptop that was unable to install Skype from the Microsoft App Store. The recommended Microsoft solution involved using the command line ... 

... and it did not solve the problem!

With regard to slow printing on Linux, this very much depends upon the printer and its default format. Many less expensive printers support one of the many PCL formats. In this case Linux has to convert its postscript output to PCL. Some printers provide an emulation of postscript support which makes them incredibly slow. More expensive printers tend to support both.

With regard to Wine, an alternative solution is to use a virtual machine environment such as Vmware or Virtualbox. 
 

[Guest]

On 26/11/2017 at 23:16, Dr Bob said:

I've been on a mac for 2 years now after 20+ years of PC. Only have to reboot once every two months rather than twice a day, new progs are usually 99% plug and play to install, and it's great for graphics. 

Yes, Apple products are just fab aren't they?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42174168

[Guest]

On 27/11/2017 at 09:15, WotEver said:

He actually could have done. He’s talking out of his bottom. It’s a problem if it HAS been activated because MS won’t permit it to be activated twice. 

Loads of copies of Win7 on eBay for a fiver and plenty of instructions on the web about how to install it (although it’s pretty straightforward). Note though that from Win10 it will need to be a clean install - wipe everything from your drive and start again. 

I got caught out buying a win 7 disk off eBay. It activated no problem and I used it for many months again no problem. The pc it was on was then unused for several months but when I went to use it again I started to get the message bottom right of the screen 'this copy of Windows is not genuine' sure enough looking at the system screen this was confirmed. I have never been able to figure out what happened or why, other than it was probably during an update it was picked up.

I would have expected if it wasn't a genuine copy I would have been alerted when I first activated it, but I wasn't.

Edited November 29, 2017 by MJG

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, MJG said:

I got caught out buying a win 7 disk off eBay. It activated no problem and I used it for many months again no problem. The pc it was on was then unused for several months but when I went to use it again I started to get the message bottom right of the screen 'this copy of Windows is not genuine' sure enough looking at the system screen this was confirmed. I have never been able to figure out what happened or why.

I would have expected if it wasn't a genuine copy I would have been alerted when I first activated it, but I wasn't.

Was it a hologrammed MS disk?

It’s most odd that it should activate and then complain about it months later. 

What did the system screen show?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Was it a hologrammed MS disk?

It’s most odd that it should activate and then complain about it months later. 

Yes it was. The seller had excellent feed back with no hint of them selling anything dodgy. I have no idea why either.

[WotEver]

Just now, MJG said:

Yes it was. The seller had excellent feed back with no hint of them selling anything dodgy. I have no idea why either.

Bizarre!

[Guest]

5 hours ago, carlt said:

I run Windows 7 on this laptop and Windows 10 on my desktop and I can't recall the last time I rebooted either.

Am I doing something wrong?

Same here, I had a wobbly moment tonight with Win 10 on my pc after an update when it wouldn't load my home screen and just left me with a blank black screen. After i switched off though and restarted it came back up. First time ive had an issue like that for as long as can remember.