Facebook, yobs canal boats and a lock

[bigcol]

2 minutes ago, Dave Payne said:

Kids of today know full well that they can just refuse, nothing bad will happen...

Also, those places are open to bullying and other sick things.

I know it sounds hard

but maybe yes, but it's got to be like that so these guys won't break the law in the first place

this is called a deterrent 

Life is like this, that's it

what they shouldn't do is is carry on like they are!!!

[Dharl]

1 hour ago, cereal tiller said:

Fobney Lock on the K and A is the same except the Local "University Challenge Team" use it as a Swimming Pool.

 

HAve heard this rumour on a couple of occasions but on the occasions that I have passed through never had an issue, though would admit that the locals where possible not middle class, middle aged, tory voters!      Had some of the 'yoofs' help out with pushing gates and stuff whilst one or two asked some intrested questions about being on the canals.

 

I am in big support of some form of National Service, not necessarry in the armed forces, but something that would hope to give structure and direction to younger people.  

[billS]

Compulsory Boy (and Girl) Scouts sort of thing?

[Graham Davis]

2 hours ago, Mike Hurley said:

Everyone should do national service, teaches you respect and discipline, 2 things sadly lacking in todays world.

And the various Senior Officers have already stated that they do not have the manpower to do so, have not got the budget to do so, and do not see that it would be of any help what-so-ever. 

As usual it is the MINORITY that get the publicity and not the thousands of hard working, well behaved ones.  I see much respect, discipline, and good behavior from lots of the youth of this country every day, but that attitude doesn't fit well with the small-mindedness from the Daily Wail brigade, who would also soon shout loudly when they realised that they would have to pay for it.

 

[Dharl]

15 minutes ago, billS said:

Compulsory Boy (and Girl) Scouts sort of thing?

sort of, maybe a compulsory community service rather than national serveice (ok picking hols) but a chance to give back to the coimmunity as well as learn new life skills and how to interact with people and that life is not always about me me me....

 

[pearley]

3 hours ago, Mike Hurley said:

Everyone should do national service, teaches you respect and discipline, 2 things sadly lacking in todays world.

I never did National Service but my parents taught me discipline and respect. I like to think we passed this onto our son.

[howardang]

I don't know what happened here other than fat finger syndrome!

Edited September 8, 2017 by howardang

[zenataomm]

You?

[Nightwatch]

When we were a younger married couple,we occasionally took young lads for a holiday that otherwise wouldn't get one. We had two sons at the time of similar age and were heavily into camping. The lad that left us was certainly not the lad that arrived two weeks earlier. We got a lot of reward from doing this, and like to believe the boys gained also.

How times have changed. Now this just wouldn't happen, we weren't vetted,only a hone visit. I was in the Navy at the time, maybe that was enough reassurance. I deversify. My point is, from a bored inner city boy,a bit rough at the edges turned quickly into a pleasant lad. We managed to get rid of the bad language which they though was part of life.

[RLWP]

Funny how this video has effected people here far more than the incident did the people who took the video over on Facebook

Richard

 

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, pearley said:

I never did National Service but my parents taught me discipline and respect. I like to think we passed this onto our son.

Same for me. 

I think that all first time parents should have to attend and pass a parentrial readiness course before being allowed to procreate.

Not sure how it could be policed though? 

[Lily Rose]

I thought this was supposed to be the answer.

[Wanted]

It won't surprise some of you that I disagree with the notion of national service or boot camp style punishments. These young people, their behaviour not excused in anyway,  I can almost guarantee that their home life is harder and more brutal than any punishment you can dream up. 

These kids are not spoilt at home I'm sure, big presumption but it's based on over 25 years of face to face youth work (Lewisham, Camden, Wandsworth, Hammersmith/bush) 

Look at what they have rather than what they don't. They have resilience. Resilience to survive within often loveless home settings. Think what they could do with positive role models, positive affirmation and love? 

I know, this won't be popular and again I am not condoning their behaviour, it's wrong and should be directly punished using the power of the law, but this is learnt behaviour and it's been learnt from people displaying the same basic actions as some are proposing is the answer. 

Think of the difference between a sculptur and a gardener. 

One knocks lumps out of something until it's the shape they want to see, possibly losing some important bits along the way. The other tends, nurtures and nourishes until the plant has grown into its natural shape.

My preference is for the later and my experinace has proven it works. 

[Richard10002]

No matter what someone has, or doesnt have, (at home, or anywhere else), it doesnt give them the right, or an excuse, to behave badly. Somehow, they need to be stopped and prevented from doing it again. "We" have a right to have them stopped and prevented. In stopping them, and preventing them from doing it again, one could consider ways of helping them with what has been missing from their lives.

In a sense, if these people have nothing, and live badly at home, the law can't really make things much worse for them, so they probably don't fear being locked up in a cell for the night, and they will be reasonably sure that the types of crime/disorder they cause will not result in a custodial sentence until they have been caught and convicted many times.

[tomsk]

1 hour ago, Wanted said:

It won't surprise some of you that I disagree with the notion of national service or boot camp style punishments. These young people, their behaviour not excused in anyway,  I can almost guarantee that their home life is harder and more brutal than any punishment you can dream up. 

These kids are not spoilt at home I'm sure, big presumption but it's based on over 25 years of face to face youth work (Lewisham, Camden, Wandsworth, Hammersmith/bush) 

Look at what they have rather than what they don't. They have resilience. Resilience to survive within often loveless home settings. Think what they could do with positive role models, positive affirmation and love? 

I know, this won't be popular and again I am not condoning their behaviour, it's wrong and should be directly punished using the power of the law, but this is learnt behaviour and it's been learnt from people displaying the same basic actions as some are proposing is the answer. 

Think of the difference between a sculptur and a gardener. 

One knocks lumps out of something until it's the shape they want to see, possibly losing some important bits along the way. The other tends, nurtures and nourishes until the plant has grown into its natural shape.

My preference is for the later and my experinace has proven it works. 

It probably wont surprise any of you that your words and philosophy closely mirror my own fella.

I have worked and lived (Lewisham excepted, there are limits and south of the river are mine :)) in all these areas and many more for most of my life and enjoyed it immensely, including Resident Caretaker roles at 'height of madness' Holly Street, Maiden Lane and Hindle House amongst others, the 'grittier' the better. 

Never had any problem at all save for a couple of funny looks and questions when I first landed and I was positively looked after in a good way by exactly the same people (and most importantly their parents, especially their Mums) as could have made my life intolerable or, given a quiet word, caused me serious/terminal physical damage were I to be identified as a Twat.

I spent a further decade or so overseeing the in-occupation refurbishment/redevelopment of such Social Housing delights as the Market Estate, Dawson Heights, The British Estate, Woodberry Down and many more I have forgotten, again I never had a problem personally and spent most of my time sorting out petty Contractor/Tenant squabbles to the benefit of all using nothing more complicated than a pragmatic, reasonable attitude backed up with common sense. 

If that failed, my future attitude to CVI's and ability to wield my red pen come Valuation time usually concentrated middle-management minds, if it got really stupid I just had a quiet chat over the phone with the relevant Director, a move I pulled twice in 10+ years and 100's of Contracts and which resolved everything for everyone at a stroke.

Conversely, if I thought it was a Tenant/Client/Housing Management issue I would kick it back for resolution, pull the Contractor out, avoid escalation and move on.

I'm eminently fair.

BUT:

If a scarfed and hooded person of any age boarded my boat or pushed his way through my door I would inflict a fair and proportionate disabling blow as soon as possible and save the understanding and dissection of motive for the de-brief.  

The Methodology remains constant regardless of context.

All The Best,

T

 

 

 

 

[bigcol]

I have to say

thats what's wrong ffs in today's society pussy footy aooround, giving excuses apron excuses.

2 generations back!, last generation, 50 years back they had it bad, poverty, warsw, hunger.

but in those days we had deterants, nor at that time did they have electronic games, fashion, phones all the tech.

its the bloody do gooders , the ones Who don't want to stick their heads above the parepit.

oh my he's got a bad life his mum don't love him excuse, excuse.

and that's why the youths of today push the boundaries, why yobs can swear taunt our police, and oh no the police can't do fcuk all!!

its so obvious, and none of us can't see it,!!!!!!!!!'mmm the powers above see it, but are scared to admit or do anything about it.

political correctness gone mad!!

do you think if bullying, yobish behaviour was dealt with by the law 10 lashes, or death, how many yobs bully's would their be!!!

None!!!!

when you stole a car, or stole years ago, yes you got a swift short sentence,DC, that stopped you in your tracks, it because you was scared of the punishment.

now days they know the police don't turn up, or it won't get to court, and if it does nothing happens because the system is full of twats who don't offer any punishment.

there is no punishment!!!!  If putting your hand on a hot plate didn't burn or hurt you, you never learn not to do it again.

but we know if you do, you. burn your self, inflicting pain and damage, so we don't.

its simple logic!!!

if yobish bullying rape behaviour was dealt with by death, straight away.

and it was carried out, their be a public outcry all over the western world. The public would be trying to stop the excecutions.

but guess what ? the rape bullying etc would stop in a couple of days.

there are no excused, none whether from a bad home or not, stop making excuses.please.

war heros, ones who knew better, these folks are suffering because of today's bully's, nodded yobish behaviour, and as long as Theirs excuses excuses excuses excuses excuses, it will continue. 

Im not getting my point across well because of meds.

look at the lack of disaplin  in parenting now???  I didn't bad mouth to my mum or dad, because I knew if I did my dad would take a belt to me, so I didn't, because the belt hurt.

now kids bad mouth their parents, because they know their dad wouldn't, cannot belt them so they know they can get away with it.

school next, years ago if you were caught thieving, bullying fighting you got the cane, and if you did get the cane in front of the whole school you certainly wouldn't go home and tell mum or dad about it, because you knew you get another good belting!!

now kids get away with not atending lessons, swearing being yobish, total lack of discipline!!! even facing out and stabbing teachers, because they know there's no punishment, no pain. Imagine tho if they do get caned, or punished, they go home to goody mummy and daddy, and then they be down the school like a shot  ranting and raving at the teachers. It be in the papers face book etc.

parents smother their kids with money electronics etc because they know they have no choice but to give in to their kids

kids then grow up got to school, which they do or they don't, bully knife commit bad behaviour not know right from wrong, not accepting ant consequences for their actions.

today the whole world is like it is because in no consequences, no physical punishment, 

parents cant give it out

teachers can't give it out

police can't give it out

courts can't give it out

so were lefted with yobs gangsters in nappies patrolling the streets or canals bullying vonrable people.

and yes it will get worse, because theirs no punishment.

 

tommorow I will probably spend lots of time editing, 

er indoors won't be happy I've posting this anyway, punctuation spelling mistakes all over the post, 

which in turn will punish me in a way us husbands DONT like, which is why I'm posting at 5 o'clock in the morning while she's asleep.

why ??? because I know I've done wrong lol

As Dixon of dock green would say

 

G-night all

[carlt]

14 minutes ago, bigcol said:

I have to say

thats what's wrong ffs in today's society pussy footy aooround, giving excuses apron excuses.

2 generations back!, last generation, 50 years back they had it bad, poverty, warsw, hunger.

but in those days we had deterants, nor at that time did they have electronic games, fashion, phones all the tech.

Ah yes..."The youth of today"...said the papers in the 1870s when referring to the sloggers.

"The youth of today"...By 1920 the girls were carrying guns...

"The Youth of Today"...Was all about Teddy Boys in the 50s

and the early 60s was famous for the bank holiday Mod/Rocker picnics...

Then National Service came to an end in the mid 60s and civilisation went to hell in a hand cart with the onset of "Flower Power", "The Summer of Love" and (OH...hang on...)

Ahhh..."The Youth of Today"...The anthem of so many ageing folk looking back through rose tinted spectacles at "better times" that were no different to today.

Perhaps we should burn some books (or beatles records) ban Elvis' hip waggling, scrap all Lambrettas, send all the Punks to Borstal (or boot camp) censor video nasties, abolish video games outlaw that disgusting Charleston dance...all used through the ages to demonise youth as a whole rather than deal with the tiny minority that make the headlines.

Ever since Cain turned out to be a nasty piece of work we've been blaming kids for the ills in our society rather than dealing with those ills as adults because it's our job, not theirs.

There can be no excuse for violent or anti-social behaviour whatever the age of the miscreant but the real damage is done by grown-ups but, I stress, a small minority, some who may well have been a boy scout or done national service.

[NB Lola]

Bored kids.  No great issue.  I thought the comments regarding the video a tad melodramatic tbh.  There was no violence or real intimidation, just kids trying to grow up with little to do.  Could have been me 40 years ago.

[bigcol]

oh my Carlt lol

digging out photos still doesn't stop the fact that

todays youth haven't got it hard,  they have it easy, as soon as people stop making excuses for em the better.

bring back a true punishment, bring back law and order

were not talking about small pockets of vandalism or bonny and Clydes.

when people are having to put up with houses being burgled, or folks being  burgeoned, gang raped, bullied, teachers being assaulted.

these people need to be swiftly brought to justice, made to pay for the crimes and punished.

this don't happen now, if it did you wouldn't have 18 kids bullying boaters in a canal.

they know the police won't turn up, and if they did,they may get a talking to, lol

no punishment

 

col x

 

 

Precisely look at the video, and let's make excuses for them already.

 

no no no no  the boaters were at fault, maybe give em a beer each, invite them inside

 

col

 

[carlt]

8 minutes ago, bigcol said:

 

Precisely look at the video, and let's make excuses for them already.

 

 

I was not making excuses for anybody.

You are merely saying what my Dad said about my Punk generation, My Grandad said about the Mods and Rockers, his Dad said about Teds and so on ad infinitum.

It is disgusting behaviour, I think we agree on that.

Where we differ is that I believe the "Youth of Today" statements are just rose tinted nonsense harking back to a better past that just didn't exist.

The yobs in the video are just as rare as the "yobs" of yesteryear.

[bigcol]

Imagine how you would feel if this sort of thing was happening to you tight now, to you boat, on your boat

how would you feel?

or when a owner sees their car caravan being vandliized, it's just youngsters blowing of a bit of steam, no worries lol

theres nothing else for them to do.

dosent make it right surely? or are we wrong, to think of if I'm feeling sorry for the kids of today, it's our fault,

i apologise 

[carlt]

32 minutes ago, NB Lola said:

  Could have been me 40 years ago.

Precisely!

or something happening 50, or 60 or 100 years ago and so on.

"You've got to pick a pocket or two boys!"

12 minutes ago, bigcol said:

Imagine how you would feel if this sort of thing was happening to you tight now, to you boat, on your boat

how would you feel?

 

My boat and home was torched by two teenagers...

I don't need to imagine.

I feel exactly the same now as I did before the incident and I am in agreement with Wanted's post.

Edited September 9, 2017 by carlt

[bigcol]

Hi Carlt

my last post wasn't a reply post to you, it was to NB Lola post below

36 minutes ago, NB Lola said:

Bored kids.  No great issue.  I thought the comments regarding the video a tad melodramatic tbh.  There was no violence or real intimidation, just kids trying to grow up with little to do.  Could have been me 40 years ago.

Jeez  quote just kids trying to grow up with little to do

well play and use their mobile phones please, was folks cars for some money to do better things with, or buy more hoodies 

play foot ball, or go home and terrorise the parents.

lol. How weak livered, have we got nowadays 

 

who remembers cub/ scouts bob a job week girls brigade

even the rufty tufty club, girls brigade 

 

go camping tents a fiver, go for a bike ride, play with the Xbox, scateboard, or power board, lol

 

col

 

[carlt]

6 minutes ago, bigcol said:

 

 

who remembers cub/ scouts bob a job week girls brigade

even the rufty tufty club, girls brigade 

 

go camping tents a fiver, go for a bike ride, play with the Xbox, scateboard, or power board, lol

 

col

 

Those things still exist for minority of kids, just as anti-social behaviour exists for a minority of kids.

I remember our school bully was a boy scout and a leader of the local gang hanging round on street corners intimidating old folk who swore it was never like that in their day.

Funnily enough he is one of the most senior lawyers in the country now.

The vast majority of kids, however, are staying out of trouble without the aid of the scouts or National Service...Just like always.

Edited September 9, 2017 by carlt

[bigcol]

I have to say I have 5 grandchildren all lovely, and proud of them

But the difference in the kids between the 2 family's are stark

you can see the difference in the behaviour,

both my daughters have different views on parenting.

the way kids up to 14 years old talk to people teachers and parents beggars belief.

aparently it's oh dadddd, it's not the way no more, your too strict.

 

this is okay way of bringing up children nowdays

 

so yes. I'm strict, and maybe a dinosaur Rex as my grandson calls me