Advice - considering a year afloat

[Mark Ungrin]

Hi everyone. I am a Canadian academic who will be spending a year in Oxford on sabbatical starting in July 2018. My wife will be home schooling our 3 children (they will be ages 8, 11 and 14) for the year, to follow our home curriculum and also to make travelling easier. We hope to make a lot of use of museums, historic sites etc in their education. While I will be geographically limited to Oxford a lot of the time for work, we're contemplating some combination of a narrowboat and a small motorhome, so we could all live in the boat, but if the rest of them wanted to wander off for a bit while I am working, they could take off in the boat, and I could stay in the motorhome and catch up with them on the weekend. I recognize there will be all sorts of pitfalls here (and probably lots we haven't thought of, one of the reasons I'm posting here!), but it is the sort of opportunity that doesn't come around very often and we'd like to do something that will give the kids a really different experience to remember.

I would like any advice people here have on the practicalities of doing something like this. I know long-term moorings in Oxford are likely a lost cause, but I was there earlier this summer and the whole area seems very bicycle friendly, and I bike commute year-round here ~6 km each way rain or snow so hopefully we could find some options not too far out (either long term or just periodic short-term stays in between sending the family off to explore the UK). What sort of boat should we be looking at? Where should we get it? I'm comfortable making some modifications (e.g. adding a bunk etc) but probably won't have time to do any really serious remodelling. What sort of things would we need to think about that might not occur to the novice narrowboater? When would be the best time to buy & sell, given that we will be in the country July 2018 through June 2019 (I am assuming this would make more sense than renting for that long but maybe I'm wrong?) and would have to store it if we took ownership before / after that time?

Thanks very much

Mark

[Athy]

Welcome to CWDF!

My first alarm bell is already sounding: five people living in a boat (even one of the longest, which are about 70') sounds cramped - O.K. for a week'sholiday, but for a whole academic year it could become claustrophobic and/ or chaotic - especially when it's bad weather.

However, the motor-home could release the pressure. It is an ingenious plan. Only you know how well the five of you get on together, and whether being in a baot for much of the time would get on everyone's nerves.

Perhaps you should be looking at the Thames, where wider, more spacious craft are available. But, of course, that could be an expensive option.

I hope that I am coming across as realistic rather than negative.

[magictime]

That's certainly a lot of people to be living in a narrowboat. Until you've actually stepped on board a few, rather than looking at pictures online, you don't really get a sense of just how limited the accommodation is. 

But I think it all depends on what sort of people you are and what sort of travelling you plan to do. If you're not terribly 'outdoorsy' types and the boat was stuck in or near Oxford most of the time, I think there's a risk that your wife and children especially could start experiencing cabin fever pretty much as soon as the novelty wore off the local museums etc. If your wife and children would be travelling all over the country, spending most of their time out and about exploring towns and villages, museums and galleries, different landscapes etc., you're right - it might be a fantastic experience.

Basically I'd say a narrowboat beats a tent by a mile if you look at this as a sort of backpacking trip, but it falls a very long way short of a family house if you look at it as a year living in Oxford.

[billS]

It might be do-able as a continuous cruiser without breaking the rules, if you are prepared to spend some money on rail fares. With railway stations at Tackley, Heyford. Kings Sutton, Banbury and Leamington Spa which have direct links to Oxford, you could spend at least 20 weeks travelling but mooring for 14 days within range of these. With a bit of imagination and a bicycle, this could be stretched out legitimately for the entire academic year.

[Alan de Enfield]

Yes, you could buy a boat but you will obviously have ‘costs’

You will have :

Moving costs (unless it is where you want it )

Licence

Insurance

Maintenance

Depreciation

Brokers commission (5% ?) when you come to sell.

 

Buying may work out cheaper, but for ease of ‘turn up and walk away’ you could consider long term hire – but ENSURE it is via a legally registered company, not someone like AirBNB (who are unlikely to have the correct safety certificates, insurance and licence)

 

You could hire initially  for (say) 3 months and if you do not kill each  other you could extend it for the full  12 months.

---

 

One example of a legal registered rental company.

 

http://www.etrr.co.uk/

[mrsmelly]

Just one thing that may help. If you buy a narrowboat an ex hire still fitted as such would probably be best for you. Most will have two bathrooms/toilets and enough beds without messing around with the fitout.

[Athy]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Just one thing that may help. If you buy a narrowboat an ex hire still fitted as such would probably be best for you. Most will have two bathrooms/toilets and enough beds without messing around with the fitout.

Good advice.

[magictime]

59 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Just one thing that may help. If you buy a narrowboat an ex hire still fitted as such would probably be best for you. Most will have two bathrooms/toilets and enough beds without messing around with the fitout.

Again, I think it depends on how you see yourselves living day to day. A fixed twin bed or bunk room (typical of hire boats) might be well worth trading 7' of living space for if you're out and about through the day, but you might favour a different trade-off (more living space but make-up beds) if spending a lot of long days inside.

[howardang]

37 minutes ago, magictime said:

Again, I think it depends on how you see yourselves living day to day. A fixed twin bed or bunk room (typical of hire boats) might be well worth trading 7' of living space for if you're out and about through the day, but you might favour a different trade-off (more living space but make-up beds) if spending a lot of long days inside.

With the 5 of you on board you will have a large ongoing demand for fresh water and toilet pumpouts. Bearing in mind that part of your year will be over the winter, you will need to consider a marina mooring - at least for the winter, and maybe for the whole time - using it as a base to return to in summer. I agree with others that an ex hire boat may be best suited to your needs - especially one with two loos and it may be easier to sell on at the end of your stay. I would avoid any boat which needs too much alteration-once you start you never know what hidden issues you may uncover!

Good luck with your plans

 

Howard

 

 

 

[magictime]

By the way, if you do go down the ex-hire route, the best time to buy is probably over the next month or two as fleets retire older boats from their fleets at the end of the main hire season. 

ABC have a couple of these coming up for sale in September and October, for instance:

http://www.abcboatsales.com/boat-sales/holker-ender/

- but obviously, despite sacrificing a front deck for a full-width double bed, and despite having fixed twin beds, you're still left with someone having to make up a bed on the sofa every night. You might find a 68ft ex-hire by Viking Afloat with another fixed berth or two, but you're still stuck with a tiny sitting/dining area as your only 'reception room'.

[Up-Side-Down]

2 hours ago, magictime said:

By the way, if you do go down the ex-hire route, the best time to buy is probably over the next month or two as fleets retire older boats from their fleets at the end of the main hire season. 

ABC have a couple of these coming up for sale in September and October, for instance:

http://www.abcboatsales.com/boat-sales/holker-ender/

- but obviously, despite sacrificing a front deck for a full-width double bed, and despite having fixed twin beds, you're still left with someone having to make up a bed on the sofa every night. You might find a 68ft ex-hire by Viking Afloat with another fixed berth or two, but you're still stuck with a tiny sitting/dining area as your only 'reception room'.

"Old" only in hire fleet terms. These are robust, sensible and practical fit outs which would be ideal for your purpose so excellent advice.

A wide-beam, ex hire boat would be as rare as hen's teeth however. Note that the canal in Oxford is only wide enough to navigate with a narrowboat while the Thames can handle wide beams. Consider stress levels with the River if you are not experienced boaters as it goes up and down a wee bit in the winter and does something we Brits call flooding!

[Mark Ungrin]

That was fast – lots of good advice already!

We’re definitely thinking about the cabin fever angle, if we wind up not doing it, that will be the likely culprit…

1 hour ago, Up-Side-Down said:

"Old" only in hire fleet terms. These are robust, sensible and practical fit outs which would be ideal for your purpose so excellent advice.

A wide-beam, ex hire boat would be as rare as hen's teeth however. Note that the canal in Oxford is only wide enough to navigate with a narrowboat while the Thames can handle wide beams. Consider stress levels with the River if you are not experienced boaters as it goes up and down a wee bit in the winter and does something we Brits call flooding!

How much of the UK can you access in a wider boat? We’ve looked at some designs, but it would defeat the purpose a bit if we wound up dramatically limiting where we could go with it.

Also, could you expand a bit on the flooding? I suspect I would not qualify as experienced (lots on small boats, canoes, sailing dinghies etc but nothing this big).

4 hours ago, magictime said:

By the way, if you do go down the ex-hire route, the best time to buy is probably over the next month or two as fleets retire older boats from their fleets at the end of the main hire season. 

ABC have a couple of these coming up for sale in September and October, for instance:

http://www.abcboatsales.com/boat-sales/holker-ender/

- but obviously, despite sacrificing a front deck for a full-width double bed, and despite having fixed twin beds, you're still left with someone having to make up a bed on the sofa every night. You might find a 68ft ex-hire by Viking Afloat with another fixed berth or two, but you're still stuck with a tiny sitting/dining area as your only 'reception room'.

How does storage work for uninhabited narrowboats over the winter – would it be expensive if we bought now?

Also, the trim level looks pretty fancy in those pictures. If I were to let’s say modify the two single berths to function as sitting / homework area during the day, I’m not sure my fine woodworking skills would be up to the level of the rest of the interior. How much is resale impacted by trim / woodworking vs layout and functionality?

 

thanks

 

Mark

[mrsmelly]

A widebeam is a non starter. There are loads of places that have narrow locks only seven feet wide. There are wide bits north and south but each time you wanted to move between the two cranes and road transport would be needed that is why most of us have silly narrowboats

[Canal Cuttings]

That 55ft boat could be a little short for your needs.  Every inch will count when you are living aboard!  I hired a 71ft boat once, and found that difficult - you couldn't see what was coming around the corner.  My other hires were 55-58 feet and much easier to turn etc. Now we share a 65ft boat and I find that fine, or perhaps my skills have increased! Two loos are essential for family use.

If you have plenty of money to fling at this project it sounds great.  I'd hate to do it on a budget though.  Being a continuous cruiser saves a fair bit, but it would not make for an easy life.  Better to stump up for a full licence??

If the family are going off exploring, your 14 y/old and possibly the 11 y/o will have to be tough, responsible and fit as they will be needed to help with the locks.  The older one could be taught to control the boat, depending what the insurance says.  Is your wife up for the physical work involved in exploring?  

I suggest you look for a boat that has or can be fitted with a washing machine.  A BIG inverter that can power lots of stuff (hairdryer?) will make you popular.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Canal Cuttings

[OldGoat]

I've hesitated to date (get fed up with being an Old-misery-Goat) but seeing as you come from t'other side of the Pond where everything, but everything, is bigger, have you realised how small a narrowboat is? Only about 5 1/2 feet wide at gunnel level. Worse than that our camper vans are not large Winebago sized lorries but more a local delivery truck size - so having a van won't add a great deal comfort to the enterprise... We're not well endowed with 'proper' campsites either - not many with paved slots for the van or hook-ups. Makes me cringe when I see what's in Europe or Stateside.

As long as you realise those differences, then you can plan accordingly.

What we lack in facilities is more than made up by the scenery and the multitude of helpful folk along the way.

The Oxford canal is narrow and some of the locks are quite heavy (two at least are very heavy) and pushing it a bit for youngsters. You'd be luck if you can make 2 1/2 mph as it's quite shallow in some places - so going off for a couple of days won't get you far unless it's part of a stepped trip - that's where the bike will come in - to get you back to the van for the next hop. The towpath is good in towns but variable on the rural bits.

The Thames is a better bet for covering the ground as you can easily do 4+ mph  'uphill'  and 6 (naughty) downhill, but there's no official towpath and bumpy in places. Although the water level is managed it does flood even in summer and boats (should) stop, especially underpowered NBs. The plus side is that all the locks are easy to operate. Those above Oxford are manual balance beam in operation and very light to open and close. Below Oxford they are all electrically operated - so easy for youngsters. The downside (depending on your point of view) is that some of the upper locks have poor access for vehicles, so you have to plan your trip. Some have locked gates so even if a map shows a track, your access may be barred.

But I guess you'll be well familiar with planning ?eh, so that's not a problem....

 

[magictime]

1 hour ago, Mark Ungrin said:

How much of the UK can you access in a wider boat? We’ve looked at some designs, but it would defeat the purpose a bit if we wound up dramatically limiting where we could go with it.

There are big chunks of the network you couldn't do (including the Oxford canal), and as mrsmelly says, you also couldn't travel from the North to the  South. And it's not just width: if you did go for a 'full length' boat, say 70', you'd be too long for many of the northern locks and so unable to visit places like York and Skipton.

How does storage work for uninhabited narrowboats over the winter – would it be expensive if we bought now?

You might want to budget £200 or so per month to leave a boat in a marina. (Most boats are uninhabited most of the time.)

Also, the trim level looks pretty fancy in those pictures. If I were to let’s say modify the two single berths to function as sitting / homework area during the day

- if that's the sort of thing you're picturing, there are boats out there with two bench seats facing each other across a removable dining table and which can also function as single berths. This is the sort of thing I had in mind when I was talking about the trade-off between fixed permanent beds vs. living space incorporating make-up beds.

, I’m not sure my fine woodworking skills would be up to the level of the rest of the interior. How much is resale impacted by trim / woodworking vs layout and functionality?

Hmm... wouldn't like to say, is probably the honest answer.

 

[Canal Cuttings]

I would add, in favour of your scheme, that going for the "boring" option and renting a house for a year might also have flaws, and you could end up with a dull house in an unpleasant area with nothing much to do.  Buying and selling boats is also easy: just turn up with the money and it's yours, with no need for any formalities or receipts even! Not recommending this of course but just pointing out how easy it can be, and to sell you just lower your price far enough and you can sell very quickly, even if it is at a loss.

[magictime]

7 hours ago, Canal Cuttings said:

I would add, in favour of your scheme, that going for the "boring" option and renting a house for a year might also have flaws, and you could end up with a dull house in an unpleasant area with nothing much to do.  Buying and selling boats is also easy: just turn up with the money and it's yours, with no need for any formalities or receipts even! Not recommending this of course but just pointing out how easy it can be, and to sell you just lower your price far enough and you can sell very quickly, even if it is at a loss.

Since the OP is new to all this, it might be worth spelling out that the usual advice is to get a survey on a boat before you buy it. And on the point about resale, it might be worth noting that prices of second-hand boats have actually risen quite a bit over the last year or so along with demand. Assuming this isn't some sort of bubble, you might actually expect to make a small profit if reselling a boat after a year of ownership, or at least to make only a small loss. 

[David Mack]

20 hours ago, magictime said:

By the way, if you do go down the ex-hire route, the best time to buy is probably over the next month or two as fleets retire older boats from their fleets at the end of the main hire season. 

ABC have a couple of these coming up for sale in September and October, for instance:

http://www.abcboatsales.com/boat-sales/holker-ender/

- but obviously, despite sacrificing a front deck for a full-width double bed, and despite having fixed twin beds, you're still left with someone having to make up a bed on the sofa every night. You might find a 68ft ex-hire by Viking Afloat with another fixed berth or two, but you're still stuck with a tiny sitting/dining area as your only 'reception room'.

Remus on the same site looks a better bet. 68 ft, one fixed double, two cabins with twin singles and no need to make up the dinette every night (except for guests).

[DandV]

We have heard of one commonwealth couple who did a couple of years boating by buying a boat under a buy and buy back arrangement. They bought the boat, (but I don't know whether they payed the full amount or just a substantial deposit), and then after two seasons the previous owner bought it back at a previously agreed amount, Worked for them and presumably totally legal

 

 

 

[magictime]

2 hours ago, DandV said:

We have heard of one commonwealth couple who did a couple of years boating by buying a boat under a buy and buy back arrangement. They bought the boat, (but I don't know whether they payed the full amount or just a substantial deposit), and then after two seasons the previous owner bought it back at a previously agreed amount, Worked for them and presumably totally legal

Seems a neat way around the minefield of long-term letting, but I wonder if the arrangement was backed up with a legally binding contract - drawn up by whom, and at what cost? - or simply relied on trust and goodwill. Which is fine if all goes smoothly, but what if something happens during that year that devalues the boat, say? E.g. if it sinks in a lock, is fire damaged, or simply has the furniture and fittings damaged by pets, is the former owner still obliged to buy it back at the agreed amount? Or what if the former owner has lost his job meanwhile and just can't pay?