Outboard not starting

[ronnietucker]

I have a Suzuki DF15 outboard motor with NA12S controller stock which was starting just dandy last weekend. This weekend, not a peep.

This is similar to a problem I had a while back where the controller wasn't going into neutral properly and, like this, when turning the key you get nothing.

The only thing I've done recently was to tighten the bolt on the back of the controller to stop the stick wobbling.

Is there a way to test the wiring to see if it's going into neutral or not, or is there something else I should test? Battery is at 12.3V, and I have about 7L of petrol.

[Jess--]

check for a switch in the lever that activates when the lever is in neutral, it could be like an automatic car where unless the gearbox thinks it's in neutral (or park) the engine won't start

 

[ronnietucker]

34 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

check for a switch in the lever that activates when the lever is in neutral, it could be like an automatic car where unless the gearbox thinks it's in neutral (or park) the engine won't start

 

Yes, there's a trigger on the stick for moving the controller. I can definitely hear the stick click back into neutral.

But is it really in neutral is what I'm wondering. It's the only thing I can think of that'd stop the engine from even trying to start. Is there a way of testing this with a multimeter or something?

[Jess--]

with the key held turned try moving the stick, it could be that where neutral really is and where the stick thinks neutral is are 2 different positions (especially if you have moved things in the back of the stick)

[zenataomm]

When you say it won't start are you saying you get nothing or ....

Does it spin but not start?

If not, does it give an electric click at all?  If you put a meter across the battery and try do you get a voltage drop?

[ronnietucker]

10 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

When you say it won't start are you saying you get nothing or ....

Does it spin but not start?

If not, does it give an electric click at all?  If you put a meter across the battery and try do you get a voltage drop?

Correct. I get nothing when I turn the key.

I've not tested it for a voltage drop, but I can hear it click when I push the key in to turn it. Will try the multimeter tomorrow.

[ronnietucker]

14 hours ago, Jess-- said:

with the key held turned try moving the stick, it could be that where neutral really is and where the stick thinks neutral is are 2 different positions (especially if you have moved things in the back of the stick)

I tried that this morning. Putting the key in, turning it, then (with no choke) moving the stick through forward and reverse. Not a peep.

The only thing I did on the back of the stick was to hand tighten the bolt to stop the stick wobbling. By rights that shouldn't have done much. Famous last words...

13 hours ago, zenataomm said:

When you say it won't start are you saying you get nothing or ....

Does it spin but not start?

If not, does it give an electric click at all?  If you put a meter across the battery and try do you get a voltage drop?

If I push in the key (as if to start) I get a voltage drop from 12.3 to about 12.15. Same idea if I turn the key.

I can hear the engine click when I push the key in.

Is there a way to check if the stick is actuality in neutral?

[cereal tiller]

16 hours ago, ronnietucker said:

I have a Suzuki DF15 outboard motor with NA12S controller stock which was starting just dandy last weekend. This weekend, not a peep.

This is similar to a problem I had a while back where the controller wasn't going into neutral properly and, like this, when turning the key you get nothing.

The only thing I've done recently was to tighten the bolt on the back of the controller to stop the stick wobbling.

Is there a way to test the wiring to see if it's going into neutral or not, or is there something else I should test? Battery is at 12.3V, and I have about 7L of petrol.

Have you still got the Safety Lanyard attached to the Controller?

[ronnietucker]

4 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

Have you still got the Safety Lanyard attached to the Controller?

Yes, the kill cord is in place.

[zenataomm]

The click you hear is the ignition solenoid energising.

The fact you don't get a massive voltage drop when you turn the key suggests it's not the starter jammed.

My old Dad always said go back to the thing you last did. Perhaps when you tightened the nut on the back of the stick you pulled it away from the kill switch and now it won't engage.  Try slackening it back off and wobbling it around as you turn the key.

[ronnietucker]

1 hour ago, zenataomm said:

The click you hear is the ignition solenoid energising.

The fact you don't get a massive voltage drop when you turn the key suggests it's not the starter jammed.

My old Dad always said go back to the thing you last did. Perhaps when you tightened the nut on the back of the stick you pulled it away from the kill switch and now it won't engage.  Try slackening it back off and wobbling it around as you turn the key.

Your old dad was a wise man indeed. That's the first thing I tried was loosening the bolt back to how it was, but nothing.

I've looked inside the stick control box and don't see anything untoward. Very odd.

It certainly seems to click into neutral quite nicely. I'll try and post photos/video once I'm home and on the WiFi.

It's going to be something silly. I just know it is...

[ronnietucker]

Back on dry land.

This is the control stick unit (minus the stick, of course, which sits in the square hole) in neutral. It has three semicircular notches cut out of the main disc there. The top one is reverse, the bottom one is forward, and it's currently sitting in the middle (neutral) one.

This is the unit with the wiring diagram from the manual. All the wires seem hunky dory.

A wiring diagram is something I miss from manuals nowadays.

[dccruiser]

Hi, I cant see from the diagram if the switch is n/o or n/c (normally open or closed) is it possible you could split the wires at the bullet connectors to make or break the switch as appropriate for starting? obviously of it makes no difference the starter solenoid is the next thing to check.

Rick

[ronnietucker]

1 minute ago, dccruiser said:

Hi, I cant see from the diagram if the switch is n/o or n/c (normally open or closed) is it possible you could split the wires at the bullet connectors to make or break the switch as appropriate for starting? obviously of it makes no difference the starter solenoid is the next thing to check.

Rick

The red kill switch?

Do those bullet connectors pull apart and clip back together? Just wondering as I don't have a crimping tool on the boat to repair them.

[dccruiser]

The bullet connector just pull apart and push back together .... if you can identify the wiring i was thinking the neutral switch , although it wouldnt hurt to check the kill switch as well just to rule it out .... if the switches need to be "made" you just need a bit of wire to make the circuit 

Rick

[ronnietucker]

I think the neutral (etc) switches would need to be 'made'? But it's something I can try next time I'm up there. I can use the multimeter to check continuity.

What should I check with the solenoid?

[dccruiser]

With a multimeter you can check the coil of the solenoid for a resistance reading not sure what you will see on an outboard solenoid but obviously it wont be open circuit or be a dead short to earth .... assuming the starter will have either screwed or bullet connectors you could also remove it and fire it directly from a battery to ensure it clicks in and the starter turns .... but before you go to those lengths just ensure you have good voltage to it , again easy enough done with a multimeter and someone to turn the key while you measure it. if you have no voltage to the starter you are back to the neutral switch and the kill switch.

Rick

[ronnietucker]

2 minutes ago, dccruiser said:

With a multimeter you can check the coil of the solenoid for a resistance reading not sure what you will see on an outboard solenoid but obviously it wont be open circuit or be a dead short to earth .... assuming the starter will have either screwed or bullet connectors you could also remove it and fire it directly from a battery to ensure it clicks in and the starter turns .... but before you go to those lengths just ensure you have good voltage to it , again easy enough done with a multimeter and someone to turn the key while you measure it. if you have no voltage to the starter you are back to the neutral switch and the kill switch.

Rick

I'm not sure if it's the same thing, but I mentioned above that when I push in the key to turn it you can hear a click in the engine. I think it was @zenataomm who mentioned that click and the solenoid.

[dccruiser]

if you are definitely getting a click from the solenoid you need to measure the voltage to see if its getting enough to turn the starter then go from there .... reading back i guess it could just be a faulty starter/solenoid, but given the history of the neutral switch playing up it has to be a candidate

 

Rick

[cereal tiller]

15 minutes ago, ronnietucker said:

I'm not sure if it's the same thing, but I mentioned above that when I push in the key to turn it you can hear a click in the engine. I think it was @zenataomm who mentioned that click and the solenoid.

The Click may be the Electric Choke?

[dccruiser]

I thought that CT but he said he had tried it with no choke so i assumed the choke was manual 

 

Rick

[ronnietucker]

Just now, dccruiser said:

I thought that CT but he said he had tried it with no choke so i assumed the choke was manual 

 

Rick

The choke is manual in that I lift the choke lever before I push and turn the key to start the engine. Once the engine is happy I put the choke lever down again.

7 minutes ago, dccruiser said:

if you are definitely getting a click from the solenoid you need to measure the voltage to see if its getting enough to turn the starter then go from there .... reading back i guess it could just be a faulty starter/solenoid, but given the history of the neutral switch playing up it has to be a candidate

 

Rick

What kinda voltage would I be looking for across the solenoid?

[cereal tiller]

1 minute ago, ronnietucker said:

The choke is manual in that I lift the choke lever before I push and turn the key to start the engine. Once the engine is happy I put the choke lever down again.

The large-ish lever on the top of the Control is usually for raising the Idle Speed,Choke is actuated by Pushing the Key in.

[ronnietucker]

1 minute ago, cereal tiller said:

The large-ish lever on the top of the Control is usually for raising the Idle Speed,Choke is actuated by Pushing the Key in.

Ah. Today I Learned  

[dccruiser]

Well done CT  i should have looked at the pick ... no choke cable! .... makes sense the click is the automatic choke and throwing in a red herring so back to the neutral switch !

 

Rick

 

Rick