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Pipework arrangements for remote tank macerator toilet


Odana

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We have a Tecma Silent macerator toilet and a holding tank under the bed about 3.5m away. The pump out is via the roof. 

We had the smelly pipes replaced 4 years ago soon after buying the boat - they were and are still smelly despite expensive anti-pong pipe. I want to replace pipework again this winter. I'm after some advice on pipework reconfiguring, non-return valves and the like.

At present the pipe leaves the toilet and runs at floor level before rising up to enter top of tank. In my mind this creates 3.5m of tubular 'tank' along back of my wardrobes etc. Ewwwww! 

What I plan to do is get the pipe to rise up steeply and as high as reasonable as soon as possible from toilet, then slope v gently down to the tank. This will involve contortions to cut new pipe holes through backs of 3 cupboards so Q1- Will a steep rise like this be ok with the macerator? and Q2 - will this make a difference to the smell, having it drain better to holding tank? I don't want backflow to toilet! 

Next issue - if the tank is full and can't be pumped out immediately, within a day the tank 'burps' sewage back into the toilet bowl (I've not seen this - reported by boatsitter twice while waiting for pumpout) Double ewwwww! This implies summat wrong with non- return valves or maybe fermentation in the long pipe as I'd think it would have gone up the vent pipe. Where should non-return valves be? 

Final bit of advice needed - the roof pipes have a pumpout pipe, a rinse pipe, and an air vent pipe. These pipes whiff too, passing up through airing cupboard behind my bed. And when standing on the back if someone flushes - pong! How to set up to minimise smell in these? Filters? Valves? 

Someone suggested rigid pipe but I don't think I can get enough access for that - the toilet-to-tank pipe definitely has to be flexible. The vertical ones could have rigid sections. I could lag pipes but that might only mask things temporarily. Any advice on set-up and smell - avoidance much appreciated. If there is a Midlands expert I'm by happy to pay em to deal with all this.

(I need to stress I dislike pump out toilets in principle. Especially when they make my bedroom and clothes whiff of plasticky sewage!!!!)

Thanks all.

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I am surprised you have sewage smells - Our setup sounds pretty similar and we have never had any odours or smelly pipes (are they "porous" ?)  I wonder if the correct ( no doubt expensive) piping has been used in your installation.  Ours is white, corrugated, (or at least with a wound wire under the outer skin) and the outer skin seems to be some sort of white plastic.

Nick

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The smell is as if they are porous but IIRC they came from one of the toilet manufacturers and I bought them specifically due to the odour-free description (because when we bought boat it whiffed and it was my first demand) . Much worse in summer (I've a sensitive nose and it is gagging when hot!) and worse on the flat section than the upright. Tank is plastic, no leaks. 

Himself has no sense of smell, so has no sympathy. He will though be the person delegated to handle sewagey pipes due to his condition!

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My waste pipe goes vertically from the toilet by about a metre then gently slopes down to the top of the waste tank where it enters the tank.  There will be standing water in the vertical pipe but the long run is self draining.  If leaving the boat for any length of time I do flush about 5 litres of water to minimise the sewerage held in the pipe, but normally I don't do this.

I do not let the tank get more than about 95% full.  If you fill it totally full there is a risk that the sewerage will be forced up the pump out pipe, which in your case is close to the roof, this would result in a 'high' pressure in the toilet waste pipe and possibly result in some back flow.  I have a couple of float switches in my tank (one about 75% the other at 90%) so I can avoid over filling.

If you get a strong smell when it is flushed I doubt it is the smell passing through the pipe but gas being pushed out of the vent to make space for the contents of the toilet.  Possibly you have a leaky join on your vent pipe which 'gas' escapes from.

The final point I would make is that the tank treatment is critical for low smell, and if going for the green additives then anything like bleach or anti-bac cleaners that gets into the toilet/ tank will kill the good bugs resulting in a lot of smell.

I hope some of the above may be of help.

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A metre? This is very encouraging. I think I have my plans for the Christmas break sorted.... I don't think we have any non-return valves - are there specific things I should be looking for? 

The tank is brewing sweetly with the little grains to balance it's flora and fauna. Not a hint of bleach or blue. But at the end of the day it's still sewage.... 

Thanks folks!

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1 hour ago, Odana said:

A metre? This is very encouraging. I think I have my plans for the Christmas break sorted.... I don't think we have any non-return valves - are there specific things I should be looking for? 

The tank is brewing sweetly with the little grains to balance it's flora and fauna. Not a hint of bleach or blue. But at the end of the day it's still sewage.... 

Thanks folks!

Just had a quick google and generally it seems macerator toilets can happily pump vertically to about 3 meters, so going up to a metre or so should be fine.

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I think you need to install as much solid pipe work as possible. I had flexible pipe from the bottom of my tank to the pump out fitting. It stank after 18 months or so. I changed this for solid and no smells in the past 4 years. Do you have a carbon filter fitted to the breather? I have just bought a replacement filter for just under £50. The filter and housing is around £90 from Leesan.

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If you've only got one vent pipe and it's going from under the bed via an airing cupboard to the roof, it sounds as if there's not likely to be much exchange of air to the tank.

Smells develop if the tank goes anaerobic (assuming you're not using blue liquid which will make it stink whatever). You need to encourage as much air flow as possible, ideally by having two vent pipes with their outlets separated by as much as possible.

Before we got rid of it, our holding tank had two 25 mm vents from either end of the tank with hull outlets about 1.5 m apart. Pipe runs were less than 50 cm each. No loo blue ever added and never had a pong even when pumping out.

Of course you might also be getting pongs from your long horizontal run!

Martin/

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My config: Jabsco Flush macerator toilet white 1.5" hose vertically up 0.75M then very thick solid ABS 1.5" from Pipestocks gently sloping down for 2.5M via 2 flowed bends into a 280L waste tank made of 6mm steel, using no blue or owt else. Until a few weeks ago it was all white hose which had begun to stink quite badly after very aproximately 18 months. It also started to leak the vertical bit back into the bowl. I looked online and discovered that the leakage was governed by a "Joker Valve". I bought one and looked online for how to install it and discovered a Jabsco YouTube video which showed that it was easy to replace, even easier when they used an unused system as their demo! But the bit that really caught my attention was the little bit at the end when they said "we recommend you change this annually" !!! I don't remember that being in the customer manual (but I may have forgotten). I changed it, it was easy and not too filthy as I had flushed lots of clean water through it first, and I caught the 2 or 3 litres of waste water in a tray with the toilet lifted on blocks over it so that it didn't get wet. That stopped the leakage immediately. I like my toilet very much with the proviso that I wish the flush was much quieter than it is.

I also like sticking ABS together, it is great fun! Getting all the angles worked out and then -  jamming it all together in the right sequence, knowing the slightest error would mean you were stuffed!

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I'm thinking of going the ABS route, and giving up on sanitary hose except for short connecting pieces to the hull fittings/ toilet etc.

I've seen ABS pipe on Leesan. and now Pipestocks.

I can't see ABS barbed hose fittings or similar to connect hose to rigid pipe.

Am I being dim and missing something obvious, or what do people use?

 

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It's proper pipe from leesan - only about 3 years old

I've got a polyprop holding tank with the fittings on top sealed with gas tape on the threads.

All the pipes are double jubilee clipped as recommended.

Yet the wardrobe still whiffs ( and makes the clothes whiff too) where the pipe passes through to go between toilet and tank.

I don't know what else it could be.

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24 minutes ago, Silebyman said:

I'm thinking of going the ABS route, and giving up on sanitary hose except for short connecting pieces to the hull fittings/ toilet etc.

I've seen ABS pipe on Leesan. and now Pipestocks.

I can't see ABS barbed hose fittings or similar to connect hose to rigid pipe.

Am I being dim and missing something obvious, or what do people use?

 

Its a pain the way nobody sells the complete set of what you need for a job, the same thing happens with hull fittings. In this case I used a 1.5" BSP M to hose fitting angle from MachineMart part 051020715 that I happened to have knocking around and a F ABS screwed connector from Pipestocks. I used the thickest ABS they sell which is not cheap but I'm not aiming to have to do this again. MachineMart have other M or F adapters, look under water pump  Couplers, Valves & Filters

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