Ex-hire boats

[CarolE]

Hi everyone. I was wondering about people's opinion of buying an ex-hire boat? After 20 years of hiring we are hoping to buy in the near future and having experienced every kind of condition and lay out of hire boat over the years we are not too fussy about what we get - at least it will be ours!  Obviously we'll follow the accepted advice about surveys and safety certificates etc.

Sorry if I've posted this in the wrong place but I would value some advice by the experts on here. Thank you.

Carol

[Heffalump]

I think you'll split the forum on this one.  I think you'll find a well looked after but a well-used boat.  Everything maintained properly but perhaps sometimes in a more tired condition.  Engine with high hours but always maintained etc.

[nicknorman]

19 minutes ago, Heffalump said:

I think you'll split the forum on this one.

I doubt it. I think most folk think mainstream hire boats are well made with reliable systems. Probably a better bet than a one-off builder/fitter-outer or a builder who doesn't really have to live with the consequences of long term design failings.

[bizzard]

18 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I doubt it. I think most folk think mainstream hire boats are well made with reliable systems. Probably a better bet than a one-off builder/fitter-outer or a builder who doesn't really have to live with the consequences of long term design failings.

Hear, hear.

[jam]

Many ex hire boats follow the Black Prince style of layout and generally have reliable (and well used) systems installed. Engines could have high running hours but are usually well maintained. No hire company can afford to lose £1500 to £2000 per week in high season because of poor maintenance.

Ours bought 2 1/2 years ago is an ex hire boat with a Reeves hull and Isuzu engine and has performed well. There are many Diy improvements that can be made so that the boat is tailored to your needs. Ours was a 6 berth, now converted to 4 berth with the L shaped dinette removed, Captains chairs and fold down table installed in its place. Of course solar panels have also been fitted which cover our charging needs from March to October.

Find the right boat (at the right price), ensure you have it surveyed and enjoy.

Edited July 30, 2017 by jam
speeling

[Captain Pegg]

I would see it as possibly the safest bet in terms of certainty of what you are buying in the second hand market. There is also variation in the ex-hire market in terms of age and style of boat so don't consider they are all the same.

JP

[Rob-M]

Hire boats are often well thought out in terms of accessibility for maintenance as generally time is restricted when getting ready for the next hire. This is an advantage to a boat where everything has been hidden behind fancy panelling.

 

[DHutch]

One thing that hasn't directly been said yet, it that hire boats are often laid out for maximum berths and not necessarily much open plan or storage space.

This means they work well for the sort of use they are intended for, which is often how private users boat, but if you plan to live aboard you may want to budget for minor refitting to swap beds for living space and storage.

Ditto the systems are usually geared crusing daily, and if moving less you may need to add things like a gas water heater, immersion coil, maybe multi fuel stove, low energy lights and solar, etc so it doesn't all grind to a halt without 6-8 engine hours a day.

 

Daniel

[RichM]

I've always had a bit of a soft-spot for Black Prince boats since going on holiday on "Primrose" back in 1997. (Still curious as to where she is now ) The hulls appear well constructed and have design features that you won't often find on non-hire boats such as the rubber bow fenders. (can't remember the correct name). Almost all have extended rigid stern fenders which I believe are designed to prevent boats getting stuck on lock sills though I could be mistaken. 

Another advantage of ex-hire boats is security. Hirers are more likely to be less concerned about finding secure moorings, so it's in the interest for hire companies to secure their boats. 

The quality of the interior fit-outs is probably best described as mediocre but in-line with what you can expect from a hire boat though looking online, they appear better than what they used to be. As you can expect, they usually lack the homely/liveaboard features that Daniel alluded to unless they have since been modified and as mentioned, many have more beds than you will know what to do with. (unless you wish to move an entire family aboard...) Though, Black Prince do sell their ex-hire boats directly and will modify the interior fitout on request. Not sure if this is at an additional cost. 

https://www.black-prince.com/boat-sales/

They're clearly very popular as they always have a waiting list. I would certainly consider one myself though the fact that they're not quite ready for liveaboard use is a little off-putting. 

RichM

[Athy]

4 hours ago, RichM said:

The quality of the interior fit-outs is probably best described as mediocre

If "mediocre" is the BEST you can say about them, I shudder to think what your worst comment might be!

How about "honest and practical"?

After 20 years' experience as a hirer, Carole should have a good idea of the appeal, and the limitations, of such boats. As mentioned above, they will have been regularly serviced and maintained, and should be easy to maintain. So yes Carole, you should indeed consider such a craft.

[Amber34]

We picked up our ex-hire boat in February and have been using it as a holiday boat rather than live aboard since then.

All very well maintained although rather vanilla internally, but it was ready to go with no issues that needed immediate attention, and we've been too busy enjoying the canals to worry about decor.

For us, it was the layout that sold it - we need accommodation for the kids, so already having 2 cabins with single/double bed options was perfect.  Also has 2 loos (pump out, of course) but no solid fuel stove.  There are little things we would like to change, but as we only want a holiday boat for now, it totally fits the bill.

 

[Tony Brooks]

So far no one seems to have mentioned the systems are often installed in a way that makes them easier to access for service and repair.

It also depends what fleet they are out of. Over the years I have seen a few, normally small, operators who  seem to specialise is third hand, clapped out boats. The biklges often give them away.

Very happy owner of an ex Viking afloat boat bought out of Clifton Cruisers fleet so third hand. It had all I wanted at the right price. Now 26 years old and about 17 in my ownership.

[Athy]

11 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

So far no one seems to have mentioned the systems are often installed in a way that makes them easier to access for service and repair.

 

Yes, actually they have: see posts 7 and 10.

[CarolE]

Thank you for all your replies, it's good to hear your opinions. I guess you've just confirmed what I was thinking but OH had worries that they would be "worn out". Having said that, he is good at DIY and engines so will be well able to maintain and modify the interior of such a boat. The main thing for me is it will be ready to go and we can change things in the fullness of time once he has retired next year. It won't be a live-aboard, but for long cruises all year round and my only definite stipulations are a pump out toilet and less than 58 feet!!

Now just to find such a boat.......

[Alan de Enfield]

Agree with virtually everything said above :

Good solid boats

Easy access for maintenance

Tend to be High Engine hours but are well looked after with regular servicing

Are built for maximum occupancy levels, not comfort

Some hire companies buy their boats from other hire companies, who have also bought from another hire company so they can be 'well-worn'.

Facilities (such as inverters, mains sockets solid fuel fire etc will (generally) be missing

 

We had an ex-Reeves boat with 9000+ hours on the engine, but it had cost the previous (private) owner over £11,000 to convert if from a 'hire boat' to a leisure boat (re-design of bathroom and rear bedroom, removal of pump-out tank, addition of suitable electrics', addition of a SF fire, etc etc)

 

Yes they are 'good buys' but ensure it is somewhere near how you want a your boat to be as 'changing' a completed boat is much more complicated and expensive than change whilst it is being built. Removing walls, bedrooms etc, enlarging lounge area are all likely to affect wall positions, have an impact on the wall 'linings' flooring etc.

 

We were very happy with ours as the 'money had been spent' before we got it.

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, CarolE said:

It won't be a live-aboard, but for long cruises all year round and my only definite stipulations are a pump out toilet

And up to that point you were being so sensible and level headed.

Never mind - I suppose it helps the economy.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[Dharl]

ABC often sell off a number of their ex-Hireboats / Timeshare boats end of season.     I have hired twice with them and found them good well built boats which handled well.

http://www.abcboatsales.com/boat-sales/

At least one member of this parish has an Ex-ABC hire boat so might be along to help with some first hand experience as well.

On their current books I see they have several worth having a look at..(if I had the time and money available both the Little Weaver and the Nightingale would interest me....)

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Dharl

[peterboat]

Sometimes they have worn edges due to high canal miles!! or thats what my survey said I loved my ex hire boat it was easily converted into a livaboard although at times with the amount of friends I had on board it would have been better left as a 6 berth!!

For me it was a great start to the canal boating world I look back with fondness on those times

[Horace42]

We bought an 8 berth ex-hire boat 30 years ago from Evesham Marine - a Fenmatch build.

Good, solid, efficient but spartan layout.  Two  double berth/dinettes and adjacent drop-through PO toilets , 4 single bunks, cruiser stern.

Three things stick in my mind.

One was, when there were 8 people on board, there was somewhere to sleep, somewhere to sit, somewhere to stand  - but nowhere to move around. You has to stay still. 

Second, was the toilets were small - only about  5 gallons each - so pump outs became expensive (same price whatever size tank - and twice.).

Third was, being ex-hire, from a company, we had to pay VAT - which added 10% to the price in those days - so make sure the price you are quoted is inclusive of VAT. 

We have totally re-fitted it out twice since. Biggest single expense was a new engine and gear box - the old BL1.5 went 20 years before throwing a con-rod, scoring the cylinder, and smashing the piston and overhead valves. Strangely enough we did not know this had happened. All we knew at the time was the engine became 'lumpy' and was not firing on one cylinder - which we thought was an injector problem. Only after more expert investigation when the cylinder head was removed did we see he extent of the damage.

No complaints at all about it being an ex-hire boat.

[Mrs Tawny Owl]

We have a 70ft ex-Alvechurch hire boat. We've had her for 14 years, and she's 29 years old.

She was 12 berth, but we've taken out the front 4 bunks and put a double bed in so now she's only 10 berths. Because we wanted a boat we could go on holiday with our 2 kids, and friends with their kids ex-hire was our only choice.

We've never regretted it, Pump out toilets work well when we have friends aboard, we never have to worry about finding an elsan. We couldn't even think about doing the BCN Challenge with a crew of 10 and 1 cassette loo, just think of the number of spare cassettes we'd need!!!

Ours doesn't have many mod cons' but then boats didn't when she was built. However she's easy to look after, and as others have said access to systems to do repairs is easy.

Sue

[Eeyore]

My first boat was an ex Gailey Marine (now part of ABC) 60 foot six berth. Excellent fit out, hardwood trims with screws (no glue) made access and modification simple where needed.

Talking of simple you will find that anything remotely unessesary to the opeation of the boat will have been "taken back to basics". This is because of the limited time available for sevicing between hires. For instance the very early Lister Alpha (Canalstar) engine had started life with insulated return electrics and a variety of small black boxes (not all relays) on a bar down the side of the engine. When I took over the wiring looked appaling but had in fact been taken back to the most basic, and reliable form! Don'tbe affraid to ask why things "look wrong" there is often a good reason. 

[Neil2]

I was talking to the guy at Black Prince a while back and he was saying they are experiencing unprecedented demand for their ex hire boats.  This may be a symptom of the demand for narrowboats generally at the moment but I suspect it's because they are a cracking good deal.  Black Prince offer all sorts of packages on top of the basic buying price eg you can have the boat repainted so it doesn't look like an ex hire boat.  I don't think you will get a better deal anywhere in the market, the only problem is waiting for boats to come available, pretty sure they have committed all their retiring boats up to Spring 2018.

What I like about hire boats is that say you get a 57 footer you actually get another living space in the form of a second bedroom.  If you look at similar private boats they usually just make the saloon/galley/bedroom bigger.   

[Boat&Bikes]

4 hours ago, Mrs Tawny Owl said:

We have a 70ft ex-Alvechurch hire boat. We've had her for 14 years, and she's 29 years old.

She was 12 berth, but we've taken out the front 4 bunks and put a double bed in so now she's only 10 berths. Because we wanted a boat we could go on holiday with our 2 kids, and friends with their kids ex-hire was our only choice.

We've never regretted it, Pump out toilets work well when we have friends aboard, we never have to worry about finding an elsan. We couldn't even think about doing the BCN Challenge with a crew of 10 and 1 cassette loo, just think of the number of spare cassettes we'd need!!!

Ours doesn't have many mod cons' but then boats didn't when she was built. However she's easy to look after, and as others have said access to systems to do repairs is easy.

Sue

Edited July 31, 2017 by ianali

[Dave Payne]

Just now, ianali said:

Is this Tawny Owl that I've just moored down from in Braunston? 

Is this Clarence that was moving south on the ashby this weekend?

[Mrs Tawny Owl]

Yes Tawny is in Braunston at the moment, good to know she's still there!!

We'll be off on a weeks holiday on her from Saturday.

Sue