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Unlicenced boats!


Big Ade

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We have come down to London on the GU to take a leisurely break and see the sights and attractions that we have previously had to speed view with our kids.

As we came nearer to London we noticed that mooring became much more difficult, there are a higher percentage of 'near end of life craft' and a great many unlicenced or expired licence boats moored on the towpath. An examample, just after Cumberland Basin on a 7 day mooring there were 8 boats and only 4 displayed a valid CRT licence. I know it is not a legal requirement to display the licence (it ought to be) but we just haven't seen this so often elsewhere. On our cruise down we met three boats with young couples aboard, they were on their way to London and intended to use their boats as live aboards whilst they worked in the City. It makes perfect financial sense, they are recommending the same tactic to their friends too.

Talking to the marina owners down here they say that this is a real issue for them.

Anyone any views on this?

Ade

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5 minutes ago, Big Ade said:

 

Talking to the marina owners down here they say that this is a real issue for them.

Anyone any views on this?

Ade

It must be a tough life for local marina owners, with their marinas full to bursting with boats and, doubtless, ready replacements from long waiting lists if anyone does leave.

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And the hardship of having to accept a 5 + % " transfer " fee if one buys an already overpriced boat on a London mooring . I saw a small springer for 60 K on AD yesterday because it had such a mooring . I imagine it must be a chore for that marina owners to take a  5 % fee . Bless em . 

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10 minutes ago, Big Ade said:

We have come down to London on the GU to take a leisurely break and see the sights and attractions that we have previously had to speed view with our kids.

As we came nearer to London we noticed that mooring became much more difficult, there are a higher percentage of 'near end of life craft' and a great many unlicenced or expired licence boats moored on the towpath. An examample, just after Cumberland Basin on a 7 day mooring there were 8 boats and only 4 displayed a valid CRT licence. I know it is not a legal requirement to display the licence (it ought to be) but we just haven't seen this so often elsewhere. On our cruise down we met three boats with young couples aboard, they were on their way to London and intended to use their boats as live aboards whilst they worked in the City. It makes perfect financial sense, they are recommending the same tactic to their friends too.

Talking to the marina owners down here they say that this is a real issue for them.

Anyone any views on this?

Ade

Depending on how far you have come you may have passed my boat which would have been displaying no licence and has been moored against the same piece of towpath for four weeks. So I am apparently unlicensed and overstaying. Except I'm neither.

Yes there's is an issue but be careful about what you assume and if you really want people's views on it search the forum. You shouldn't be surprised to find they are divided.

JP

 

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I think its the same wherever you go, you see boats not showing a license and not moving, however their might be reasons for it that we dont know, ie in hospital seriously ill and CRT know about the boat and are keeping an eye on it. Not all are genuine as in all walks of life, but some will be.

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21 minutes ago, Big Ade said:

We have come down to London on the GU to take a leisurely break and see the sights and attractions that we have previously had to speed view with our kids.

As we came nearer to London we noticed that mooring became much more difficult, there are a higher percentage of 'near end of life craft' and a great many unlicenced or expired licence boats moored on the towpath. An examample, just after Cumberland Basin on a 7 day mooring there were 8 boats and only 4 displayed a valid CRT licence. I know it is not a legal requirement to display the licence (it ought to be) but we just haven't seen this so often elsewhere. On our cruise down we met three boats with young couples aboard, they were on their way to London and intended to use their boats as live aboards whilst they worked in the City. It makes perfect financial sense, they are recommending the same tactic to their friends too.

Talking to the marina owners down here they say that this is a real issue for them.

Anyone any views on this?

Ade

My view is get off that laptop or whatever and enjoy boating!

Keith

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if you came past my boat in March you wouldve seen another unlicensed boat . Except that it was and i hadn t printed the license yet . 

The reasons why "  3 young couples " are taking thier boat to London are discussed on several recent threads .

cheers

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If you assume that:

  • CaRT has decided not to try to change the legislation that defines their powers and responsibilities
  • CaRT would like to have the ability to manage mooring duration and perhaps other mooring-related matters

Letting London's canals fill up is probably the best plan they have.  It's not their responsibility, so they can't be criticized, and it will become "somebody else's problem" soon enough.  This way whoever is most unhappy and has the ability to take action will have to do all the "heavy lifting" and take the inevitable political hit, and CaRT will get what they want. 

In the meantime all they need to do is keep enough temporary moorings available for genuine navigators who want to spend a few days in London and the majority of their customers will be happy.

Edited by Gordias
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I can't help feeling that if CRT charged say £5K per year as a mooring fee on top of the licence for all the boats welded...I mean moored...to the towpath within the M25 it would go a long way to helping pay for the maintenance on the rest of the system where sensible people actually want to move.....

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CRTs London strategy is due to be released in the Autumn following several workshops  , this is likely to involve more reserved mooring for trading  boats and more short stay moorings (some bookable/chargeable) in central London coupled with new facilities and additional mooring spaces being planned/created.

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I'm with junior on this .it can not be much fun or holiday checking out every boat you pass .,some weeks back I moored up ,Said hello to this guy turned out he knew more abt my boat then me ,even knew my. Name ,,I said how did you know that ,,oh it's so app I use ,,how boring and sad  is that ,,

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14 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

CRT should accept that people living on boats in London is now a given and probably can not be reversed, in which case they should set aside vast lengths of tow path as long term moorings and charge £10~15k per year.  That would help with cash flow.

I suspect the vast majority of people living in London on a boat could not afford £10-15k per year for a mooring, so in your idea, where would they go?

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12 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

CRT should accept that people living on boats in London is now a given and probably can not be reversed, in which case they should set aside vast lengths of tow path as long term moorings and charge £10~15k per year.  That would help with cash flow.

Managing London via prices that balance supply and demand would make perfect sense, but AFAIK the legislation doesn't really support this.

OTOH Tuscan's post:

Quote

CRTs London strategy is due to be released in the Autumn following several workshops  , this is likely to involve more reserved mooring for trading  boats and more short stay moorings (some bookable/chargeable) in central London coupled with new facilities and additional mooring spaces being planned/created.

seems like the right way forward given that CaRT doesn't want to get into a "head-banging competition" with London boaters (a wise call IMO - I don't think CaRT would win).

OTOH it makes sense for them to provide reserved spaces for those who aren't living permanently on the London canals, and more marina-style moorings, with (where possible) all "real" permanent moorings correctly priced.  With those users handled, CaRT can let the longer-term towpath moorings take care of themselves for a while.  Of course it will evolve, certainly towards more "friction" with neighbours and other canal/towpath users, and probably towards overcrowding.  But it won't be CaRT's problem.

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6 minutes ago, junior said:

I suspect the vast majority of people living in London on a boat could not afford £10-15k per year for a mooring, so in your idea, where would they go?

A good point  - it's why, IMO, CaRT can't reasonably take on responsibility for London boaters as a whole.  But if they wait it will either stabilize or it will become London's problem. 

I don't personally believe it will stabilize on its own, but it isn't impossible. Either solution would be ok ... but non-London boaters would be a lot better off if the London canals were turned into a rental business with a steady migration towards CaRT receiving market rentals.

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17 minutes ago, junior said:

I suspect the vast majority of people living in London on a boat could not afford £10-15k per year for a mooring, so in your idea, where would they go?

Then price on desirability, starting at say £2k through to £20k.  Demand will make clear where to set the prices.

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7 minutes ago, mross said:

CaRT say on their website, "Although we don’t need to see your discs to know whether a boat is licensed, it’s still a legal requirement to display them along with your boat name and index number."

It's specified in the byelaws (which I read today for a different thread): 1976 byelaw (4) reads:

  1. The  owner  of  a  pleasure  boat  shall  not  knowingly  cause  or permit  to  be  used  on  a  canal  (not  being  a  river  waterway)  any pleasure  boat  in  respect  of  which  a  pleasure  boat  licence  has been  issued  unless  the  licence  for  the  time  being  in  force  is displayed on the pleasure boat in such a manner and position as to be clearly visible from outside the pleasure boat at all times.
  2. The owner of a commercial vessel shall not knowingly cause or  permit  to  be  used  on  a  canal  (not  being  a  commercial waterway) any commercial vessel in respect of which a commercial vessel licence has been issued unless the licence for the  time  being  in  force  is  displayed  on  the  commercial  vessel  in such a manner and position as to be clearly visible from outside the commercial vessel at all times.
  3. No person shall knowingly cause or permit to be concealed a pleasure boat licence or commercial vessel licence required to be displayed on a pleasure boat or commercial vessel in accordance with this Bye-law.

CaRT would have to have the byelaws changed to remove this requirement.

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