Big Ade Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 We have come down to London on the GU to take a leisurely break and see the sights and attractions that we have previously had to speed view with our kids. As we came nearer to London we noticed that mooring became much more difficult, there are a higher percentage of 'near end of life craft' and a great many unlicenced or expired licence boats moored on the towpath. An examample, just after Cumberland Basin on a 7 day mooring there were 8 boats and only 4 displayed a valid CRT licence. I know it is not a legal requirement to display the licence (it ought to be) but we just haven't seen this so often elsewhere. On our cruise down we met three boats with young couples aboard, they were on their way to London and intended to use their boats as live aboards whilst they worked in the City. It makes perfect financial sense, they are recommending the same tactic to their friends too. Talking to the marina owners down here they say that this is a real issue for them. Anyone any views on this? Ade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubby Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 Any views on what ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 Yes, but it will only cause arguments on here. I am rapidly getting fed up free loaders spoiling it for those who pay their dues and try to abide by the "rules". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Big Ade said: Talking to the marina owners down here they say that this is a real issue for them. Anyone any views on this? Ade It must be a tough life for local marina owners, with their marinas full to bursting with boats and, doubtless, ready replacements from long waiting lists if anyone does leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubby Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 And the hardship of having to accept a 5 + % " transfer " fee if one buys an already overpriced boat on a London mooring . I saw a small springer for 60 K on AD yesterday because it had such a mooring . I imagine it must be a chore for that marina owners to take a 5 % fee . Bless em . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pegg Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 10 minutes ago, Big Ade said: We have come down to London on the GU to take a leisurely break and see the sights and attractions that we have previously had to speed view with our kids. As we came nearer to London we noticed that mooring became much more difficult, there are a higher percentage of 'near end of life craft' and a great many unlicenced or expired licence boats moored on the towpath. An examample, just after Cumberland Basin on a 7 day mooring there were 8 boats and only 4 displayed a valid CRT licence. I know it is not a legal requirement to display the licence (it ought to be) but we just haven't seen this so often elsewhere. On our cruise down we met three boats with young couples aboard, they were on their way to London and intended to use their boats as live aboards whilst they worked in the City. It makes perfect financial sense, they are recommending the same tactic to their friends too. Talking to the marina owners down here they say that this is a real issue for them. Anyone any views on this? Ade Depending on how far you have come you may have passed my boat which would have been displaying no licence and has been moored against the same piece of towpath for four weeks. So I am apparently unlicensed and overstaying. Except I'm neither. Yes there's is an issue but be careful about what you assume and if you really want people's views on it search the forum. You shouldn't be surprised to find they are divided. JP 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 I think its the same wherever you go, you see boats not showing a license and not moving, however their might be reasons for it that we dont know, ie in hospital seriously ill and CRT know about the boat and are keeping an eye on it. Not all are genuine as in all walks of life, but some will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steilsteven Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 21 minutes ago, Big Ade said: We have come down to London on the GU to take a leisurely break and see the sights and attractions that we have previously had to speed view with our kids. As we came nearer to London we noticed that mooring became much more difficult, there are a higher percentage of 'near end of life craft' and a great many unlicenced or expired licence boats moored on the towpath. An examample, just after Cumberland Basin on a 7 day mooring there were 8 boats and only 4 displayed a valid CRT licence. I know it is not a legal requirement to display the licence (it ought to be) but we just haven't seen this so often elsewhere. On our cruise down we met three boats with young couples aboard, they were on their way to London and intended to use their boats as live aboards whilst they worked in the City. It makes perfect financial sense, they are recommending the same tactic to their friends too. Talking to the marina owners down here they say that this is a real issue for them. Anyone any views on this? Ade My view is get off that laptop or whatever and enjoy boating! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubby Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 if you came past my boat in March you wouldve seen another unlicensed boat . Except that it was and i hadn t printed the license yet . The reasons why " 3 young couples " are taking thier boat to London are discussed on several recent threads . cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 Many people don't bother to display the license as CaRT can check without it. So you can't assume these boats were all unlicensed. And you can check, if the boat is displaying its index number. https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/licensing/boat-check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 The main point of CRT dropping the requirement to display a valid licence is so they can keep secret the level of licence evasion, massage the figures and avoid independent scrutiny. ....Some might say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordias Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) If you assume that: CaRT has decided not to try to change the legislation that defines their powers and responsibilities CaRT would like to have the ability to manage mooring duration and perhaps other mooring-related matters Letting London's canals fill up is probably the best plan they have. It's not their responsibility, so they can't be criticized, and it will become "somebody else's problem" soon enough. This way whoever is most unhappy and has the ability to take action will have to do all the "heavy lifting" and take the inevitable political hit, and CaRT will get what they want. In the meantime all they need to do is keep enough temporary moorings available for genuine navigators who want to spend a few days in London and the majority of their customers will be happy. Edited July 22, 2017 by Gordias 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post junior Posted July 22, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Big Ade said: Anyone any views on this? Ade Nope. Couldn't care less about whether someone else has a license or not, or how long they stay in one place, or what their boat looks like. I file these thoughts under 'None of my business' and get on with my life. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 seems good to me. I hope all boats end up jamming London up that means all the nice places to go will have plenty of space for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frangar Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 I can't help feeling that if CRT charged say £5K per year as a mooring fee on top of the licence for all the boats welded...I mean moored...to the towpath within the M25 it would go a long way to helping pay for the maintenance on the rest of the system where sensible people actually want to move..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 CRTs London strategy is due to be released in the Autumn following several workshops , this is likely to involve more reserved mooring for trading boats and more short stay moorings (some bookable/chargeable) in central London coupled with new facilities and additional mooring spaces being planned/created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haza Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 I'm with junior on this .it can not be much fun or holiday checking out every boat you pass .,some weeks back I moored up ,Said hello to this guy turned out he knew more abt my boat then me ,even knew my. Name ,,I said how did you know that ,,oh it's so app I use ,,how boring and sad is that ,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 CRT should accept that people living on boats in London is now a given and probably can not be reversed, in which case they should set aside vast lengths of tow path as long term moorings and charge £10~15k per year. That would help with cash flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 14 minutes ago, Chewbacka said: CRT should accept that people living on boats in London is now a given and probably can not be reversed, in which case they should set aside vast lengths of tow path as long term moorings and charge £10~15k per year. That would help with cash flow. I suspect the vast majority of people living in London on a boat could not afford £10-15k per year for a mooring, so in your idea, where would they go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordias Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 12 minutes ago, Chewbacka said: CRT should accept that people living on boats in London is now a given and probably can not be reversed, in which case they should set aside vast lengths of tow path as long term moorings and charge £10~15k per year. That would help with cash flow. Managing London via prices that balance supply and demand would make perfect sense, but AFAIK the legislation doesn't really support this. OTOH Tuscan's post: Quote CRTs London strategy is due to be released in the Autumn following several workshops , this is likely to involve more reserved mooring for trading boats and more short stay moorings (some bookable/chargeable) in central London coupled with new facilities and additional mooring spaces being planned/created. seems like the right way forward given that CaRT doesn't want to get into a "head-banging competition" with London boaters (a wise call IMO - I don't think CaRT would win). OTOH it makes sense for them to provide reserved spaces for those who aren't living permanently on the London canals, and more marina-style moorings, with (where possible) all "real" permanent moorings correctly priced. With those users handled, CaRT can let the longer-term towpath moorings take care of themselves for a while. Of course it will evolve, certainly towards more "friction" with neighbours and other canal/towpath users, and probably towards overcrowding. But it won't be CaRT's problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordias Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 6 minutes ago, junior said: I suspect the vast majority of people living in London on a boat could not afford £10-15k per year for a mooring, so in your idea, where would they go? A good point - it's why, IMO, CaRT can't reasonably take on responsibility for London boaters as a whole. But if they wait it will either stabilize or it will become London's problem. I don't personally believe it will stabilize on its own, but it isn't impossible. Either solution would be ok ... but non-London boaters would be a lot better off if the London canals were turned into a rental business with a steady migration towards CaRT receiving market rentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 17 minutes ago, junior said: I suspect the vast majority of people living in London on a boat could not afford £10-15k per year for a mooring, so in your idea, where would they go? Then price on desirability, starting at say £2k through to £20k. Demand will make clear where to set the prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 CaRT say on their website, "Although we don’t need to see your discs to know whether a boat is licensed, it’s still a legal requirement to display them along with your boat name and index number." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordias Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, mross said: CaRT say on their website, "Although we don’t need to see your discs to know whether a boat is licensed, it’s still a legal requirement to display them along with your boat name and index number." It's specified in the byelaws (which I read today for a different thread): 1976 byelaw (4) reads: The owner of a pleasure boat shall not knowingly cause or permit to be used on a canal (not being a river waterway) any pleasure boat in respect of which a pleasure boat licence has been issued unless the licence for the time being in force is displayed on the pleasure boat in such a manner and position as to be clearly visible from outside the pleasure boat at all times. The owner of a commercial vessel shall not knowingly cause or permit to be used on a canal (not being a commercial waterway) any commercial vessel in respect of which a commercial vessel licence has been issued unless the licence for the time being in force is displayed on the commercial vessel in such a manner and position as to be clearly visible from outside the commercial vessel at all times. No person shall knowingly cause or permit to be concealed a pleasure boat licence or commercial vessel licence required to be displayed on a pleasure boat or commercial vessel in accordance with this Bye-law. CaRT would have to have the byelaws changed to remove this requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 So have i got this right - Some peoples suggestion for too many unlicensed boats, is to charge them more money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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