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EA moorings BS


Nige123

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So I have been onto the EA Facebook page about the new mooring signs.

They now say you can stay for 24hours for free then 2 days at £5.00 then it's £100 per day......

Now the problem I and many others have with this is, I come off the K&A so I can get to Marlow or Wallingford in a weekend. I used to moor my boat & get a ride back to my starting place to pick up my car. Come back a week later & carry on my way up or down the Thames to say Windsor, then Hampton court etc etc.

This will now cost me an extra £410...................................... WTF

So I ask you fine folk to stop this one by also going on EA's facebook site (As they like to give a reply as it's the face of EA & you can't be fobbed off) & say No thanks EA as I have been told this a trial period for this year. & if it works you watch CRT just on the band wagon next....

I also came up with the idea below as an alternative to the pay through the nose EA idea.  

 

I have an idea. Why not let lengths of EA moorings to caretakers who would pay EA a fee to moor on a length & then they could take mooring fee's from boaters who stay on the length. rules could apply with a maximum stay like CRT of 2 weeks & people that refuse to pay or move could be reported to EA & EA could contact them to move on or have the offending boat impounded & sold if no payment is made. EA could open up more moorings & caretakers would Take care of the moorings. the better the moorings the more the care taker would get back.

 

CRT & EA seem to think live aboard boaters are the ones making a mess on the tow paths. I say rubbish (sorry) if you turn up on a mooring after a hire boat that has a Stag or Hen party you will find it full of cans, bottles, disposable BBQ's & worse....

Why don't EA & CRT have little picker boats? No CRT wants to cut the litter bins by 40% to cut costs? I thought CRT was a charity not a profit making company..... I wonder what will happen to the money saved? wage rise for top brass maybe???

 

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As an occasional visitor to the Thames I don't want to turn up at a potential mooring site to find it blocked by empty boats moored for a week. The whole point of the EA rules on the Thames is to keep boats moving and ensure that the limited space remains available. I would be so bold to say that the £100 per day charge is not about making money; rather it's about moving people on. 

Moorings on the Thames are limited because most of the bank is controlled by the respective riparian owners. I'm not sure that there are sufficient EA sites to accommodate caretakers and moorings. In effect much of what you propose is already happening on private land, with businesses like SRB moorings (between Henley and Cookham) collecting mooring fees and sometimes agreeing longer stays at a negotiated rate.

Another point about the Thames is that levels and flows can change quickly and dramatically. An empty boat moored for a week could be at risk, and if it broke away it could cause significant damage to other boats and/or infrastructure. 
 

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1 hour ago, Mike on the Wey said:

As an occasional visitor to the Thames I don't want to turn up at a potential mooring site to find it blocked by empty boats moored for a week. The whole point of the EA rules on the Thames is to keep boats moving and ensure that the limited space remains available. I would be so bold to say that the £100 per day charge is not about making money; rather it's about moving people on. 

Moorings on the Thames are limited because most of the bank is controlled by the respective riparian owners. I'm not sure that there are sufficient EA sites to accommodate caretakers and moorings. In effect much of what you propose is already happening on private land, with businesses like SRB moorings (between Henley and Cookham) collecting mooring fees and sometimes agreeing longer stays at a negotiated rate.

Another point about the Thames is that levels and flows can change quickly and dramatically. An empty boat moored for a week could be at risk, and if it broke away it could cause significant damage to other boats and/or infrastructure. 
 

So you want the river for yourself when you want to visit? The point of a caretaker would be to provide mooring spaces to all. Yes SRB moorings seem to work well & you can always find spaces. What about all the boats that are moored up year round on the Thames very few "Brake loose & cause significant damage" The fact is more people are buying boats after seeing B list celebrates messing about on boats on our TV sets. We can look forward & accommodate the growth or beat people with a stick. If you beat folk enough they will disobey & resist...... Like Gandhi & India    

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Surely this is an improvement? Previously, most of these were restricted to 24 hours only, now (IMO) you can get 2 further days at £5 per day, a bargain in Thames terms.

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I thought it worked quite well when we visited earlier in the year....we stood a chance of finding a mooring. If you want to leave your boat for a week then book into a marina...don't hog a mooring for boats that are traveling. 

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6 hours ago, Nige123 said:

So you want the river for yourself when you want to visit?

You want mooring spaces to be available for your unoccupied boat for 1-2 weeks at a time, but you think it's unreasonable for other people to want mooring spaces to be available for 1-2 days when they visit in the course of a cruise? Why? And how would the presence of caretakers improve anybody's chance of finding a mooring space? I mean, if EA are in a position to provide more moorings and this would make it unnecessary to move boats on so quickly, fine, let them do that. But I don't see what the caretakers are supposed to achieve that couldn't just as well be achieved by mooring rangers of some sort who weren't themselves taking up mooring spaces with their own boats. And I doubt the EA even have the authority to let caretakers live aboard on their mooring spaces without planning permission in place.

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6 hours ago, Nige123 said:

So you want the river for yourself when you want to visit? The point of a caretaker would be to provide mooring spaces to all. Yes SRB moorings seem to work well & you can always find spaces. What about all the boats that are moored up year round on the Thames very few "Brake loose & cause significant damage" The fact is more people are buying boats after seeing B list celebrates messing about on boats on our TV sets. We can look forward & accommodate the growth or beat people with a stick. If you beat folk enough they will disobey & resist...... Like Gandhi & India    

So you want the river for yourself when you want to visit? That is not what I said. Short-term free moorings should be available for all, on a first-come first-served basis.

What about all the boats that are moored up year round on the Thames very few "Brake loose & cause significant damage" Many of these boats are on pontoons which rise and fall with the river level, or have riser rings on piles. And those on end-of-garden moorings can be easily seen/checked by owners. During the 2014 floods many boats broke away from moorings. See the power of the Thames in flood here

We can look forward & accommodate the growth ... But who owns most of the riverbank? Certainly not the Environment Agency. So "we" cannot do very much without the goodwill and consent of the landowners. In the meantime "we" need to consider the needs of all and maximise mooring availability. To my mind that doesn't include facilitating people leaving boats unattended for a week, or being able to stay for two weeks as on CaRT waters. As frangar said, use a marina.

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2 minutes ago, Mike on the Wey said:

 To my mind that doesn't include facilitating people leaving boats unattended for a week, or being able to stay for two weeks as on CaRT waters. As frangar said, use a marina.

Perhaps I am dull at this hour of the morning - but what does it matter if these boats are occupied or unoccupied? They're still taking up the same amount of space. Would you withdraw your criticism if they stayed in the same place for a week with the crew on board, and if so, why?

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Personally i think its fine, 3 days for £10 cheaper than most places and better than 24hrs only.

So Nige you were/are one of those anti social people that dump their boats on 24hr moorings for a week ?

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I don't think he has actually thought thru' the real implications of his suggestion.

I expect that Nige will be more than a little annoyed if he left his car, set off and was unable to find a mooring anywhere because all of the moorings were full of 'dumpers', or, does he plan to 'phone ahead' to the caretaker and book his mooring ?

With a growing number of boaters and a limited number of moorings it is only right and fair that everyone has a chance of getting one - I you want to 'dump' the boat for a week or two then use a marina.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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47 minutes ago, Athy said:

Perhaps I am dull at this hour of the morning - but what does it matter if these boats are occupied or unoccupied? They're still taking up the same amount of space. Would you withdraw your criticism if they stayed in the same place for a week with the crew on board, and if so, why?

A very good point....

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Let me be clear (like a politicians)

I have 2 home moorings that I pay for.

I also work so get to use my boat (like many others) on weekends & holidays.

I got into boating due to the freedom of the life aboard that I see being eroded.

EA have new signs & as a result many of the boaters that can't get a council house are now not spaced out 1 every 2 or 3 miles they are in massive clumps that take over mooring spaces like outside Tesco in Reading so no other boat can stop to get shopping. 

EA could make more use of it's own moorings. It could also make private land owners happy to let mooring boats use land by sending out boats to clean up rubbish that is left behind. Or are we saying only retired or wealthy people can use the water ways & everyone else can PO........... CRT is kicking people off it's water ways by refusing boat licences & the next water way in many cases is the Thames, so that didn't fix a problem it just made it worse in another area, problems need fixing not moving........

I now see many of my favourite mooring's with boats dumped on for weeks & weeks. Henley has boats turn up at night left for weeks & then removed at night, & I pay been paying £55 per week or even £200 for regatta week, This upset me some what as I do play by the rules (At the moment).......  

24 minutes ago, Martin Megson said:

Visitor moorings on the Thames are in short supply so I'm happy to see them made available for visitors.  They are not meant to be used to store a boat for free for a week at a time. 

 

So if I disagree & say it's a civil offence so I'm gona moor & you can spend thousands trying to get rid of me & I will move a week before it gets to court, will that make things better for all? it also makes buying an EA river licence less attractive. 

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7 minutes ago, Nige123 said:

Let me be clear (like a politicians)

I have 2 home moorings that I pay for.

I also work so get to use my boat (like many others) on weekends & holidays.

I got into boating due to the freedom of the life aboard that I see being eroded.

EA have new signs & as a result many of the boaters that can't get a council house are now not spaced out 1 every 2 or 3 miles they are in massive clumps that take over mooring spaces like outside Tesco in Reading so no other boat can stop to get shopping. 

EA could make more use of it's own moorings. It could also make private land owners happy to let mooring boats use land by sending out boats to clean up rubbish that is left behind. Or are we saying only retired or wealthy people can use the water ways & everyone else can PO........... CRT is kicking people off it's water ways by refusing boat licences & the next water way in many cases is the Thames, so that didn't fix a problem it just made it worse in another area, problems need fixing not moving........

I now see many of my favourite mooring's with boats dumped on for weeks & weeks. Henley has boats turn up at night left for weeks & then removed at night, & I pay been paying £55 per week or even £200 for regatta week, This upset me some what as I do play by the rules (At the moment).......  

So if I disagree & say it's a civil offence so I'm gona moor & you can spend thousands trying to get rid of me & I will move a week before it gets to court, will that make things better for all? it also makes buying an EA river licence less attractive. 

So you want to join the dumped boats that are taking up your moorings......hmmmmm

Surely what's needed is better enforcement not less. And in my experience of the Thames earlier in the year you are lucky to get the ropes tied up before someone is asking for cash in the places that charge for mooring. 

I agree that places like reading need better control but from what I understand part of the problem there is no one is quite sure who owns the land. 

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18 minutes ago, Nige123 said:

EA have new signs & as a result many of the boaters that can't get a council house are now not spaced out 1 every 2 or 3 miles they are in massive clumps that take over mooring spaces like outside Tesco in Reading so no other boat can stop to get shopping. 

I'm not quite following the point here ?

Are you suggesting that those 'that cannot get council houses' (and presumably are unable or unwilling to pay for a mooring / marina) were just using the visitors moorings as permanent 'liveaboard' moorings, but now there is a charge have 'moved-on' .

Could those that 'cannot get council houses' just use the money they would have paid in rent, to pay for a mooring - or - a I missing your point ?

 

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The Thames is about CRUISING and not mooring. Boaters don't have  a RIGHT to moor. Such rights are in the gift of EA and the riparian owners.

Nige is at liberty to moor on a bankside somewhere and take his chance with the weather, river levels, and an angry riparian owner. For EA moorings there are rules, for others not.  

There is no official towpath against which you can moor - the situation is quite different fro CaRT's waterways. 

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2 hours ago, Athy said:

Perhaps I am dull at this hour of the morning - but what does it matter if these boats are occupied or unoccupied? They're still taking up the same amount of space. Would you withdraw your criticism if they stayed in the same place for a week with the crew on board, and if so, why?

I suppose it's a bit like somebody paying for an extra seat on a train to put their bag in. Yes, they have a right to put their bag there, no, the bag isn't taking up any more space than a friend who could have used that extra ticket instead... but still, it's understandable that a passenger forced to stand on that journey because all the seats are occupied would resent the fact that, for the sake of somebody else's mere convenience in storing their possessions, they were being denied the chance to make full use of the seat as somewhere to rest, enjoy the view, eat and drink, etc.

I'm a former 'dumper' myself, but I always left my boat on a stretch of 14-day moorings where there was no danger of a visiting boater failing to find a space on my account. I wouldn't have wanted my use of a mooring spot merely as somewhere to keep my boat to stand in the way of somebody else using it as somewhere to sleep overnight and as a base for exploring the area, picking up some shopping, visiting the pub, etc.

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I must say that when the signs first went up I felt resentful but now I feel that, on the whole, they are a good thing.

As has been said above, previously you were only allowed to stay for twenty four hours so three days for a tenner is something of a bargain. My only gripe is that I feel that the time limit should be extended during the autumn/winter/ spring months when these moorings stand empty. 

Keith

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1 hour ago, Steilsteven said:

I must say that when the signs first went up I felt resentful but now I feel that, on the whole, they are a good thing.

As has been said above, previously you were only allowed to stay for twenty four hours so three days for a tenner is something of a bargain. My only gripe is that I feel that the time limit should be extended during the autumn/winter/ spring months when these moorings stand empty. 

Keith

Why don't you suggest that to ThamesVisitorMoorings  who run the scheme on behalf of EA?

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15 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

I might just do that, is it in their power to do so?

Keith

Not as far as I know - but they have contact(s) with EA management. What they want  is for the moorings to managed for the benefit of all River users (as well as some money   - every little helps)

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10 hours ago, Nige123 said:

EA could make more use of it's own moorings. It could also make private land owners happy to let mooring boats use land by sending out boats to clean up rubbish that is left behind.

Where is the budget for the boats and staff to do this litter picking coming from?  If I remember correctly the EA is like everything else working on restricted funds.

Or are we saying only retired or wealthy people can use the water ways & everyone else can PO...........

As I see it the charges are aimed at ensuring everybody gets a fair chance of using the scare resource - mooring.  A fiver a night is cheap, cheaper than you pay for a mornings parking round here.  The sudden rise in cost is to move people on to give others their fair chance at a few days there.

CRT is kicking people off it's water ways by refusing boat licences & the next water way in many cases is the Thames, so that didn't fix a problem it just made it worse in another area, problems need fixing not moving........

As they are two different navigation authorities it is not unexpected that they don't work together and have the same policy.  Incidentally CRT don't necessarily consider whether you are moving to other waters or selling up and going ashore.  It isn't their problem.  Of course if you don't like CRT's system or EA's system then selling up may be the only/best option.

I now see many of my favourite mooring's with boats dumped on for weeks & weeks. Henley has boats turn up at night left for weeks & then removed at night, & I pay been paying £55 per week or even £200 for regatta week, This upset me some what as I do play by the rules (At the moment).......  

Isn't this sort of thing what charges on moorings is attempting to sort out?

 it also makes buying an EA river licence less attractive. 

Do they really care?

 

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20 hours ago, Nige123 said:

So I have been onto the EA Facebook page about the new mooring signs.

They now say you can stay for 24hours for free then 2 days at £5.00 then it's £100 per day......

Now the problem I and many others have with this is, I come off the K&A so I can get to Marlow or Wallingford in a weekend. I used to moor my boat & get a ride back to my starting place to pick up my car. Come back a week later & carry on my way up or down the Thames to say Windsor, then Hampton court etc etc.

This will now cost me an extra £410...................................... WTF

So I ask you fine folk to stop this one by also going on EA's facebook site (As they like to give a reply as it's the face of EA & you can't be fobbed off) & say No thanks EA as I have been told this a trial period for this year. & if it works you watch CRT just on the band wagon next....

 

so you think the Thames is nothing more than a long term car park?

remind me where you live, I'll get a local company to park all their vans outside your house for a couple of weeks.

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