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Beta 43 - remote diagnosis advice


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Calling anyone with Beta 43 expertise. I am not on the boat - my brother is using it, so trying to diagnose and remedy via phone.

Setup - Beta 43 with travel pack etc, old style built 1997/8. Usually runs well, full service of the travel pack and pulls etc last winter. All belts and pulleys seem sound. Slight head float but no more than recent years. All gauges OK and temp good.

Has developed a low-revs shake and rattle, juddering which falls away at higher revs. No mount rubber in bilge and mounts seem solid. Difficult as problem hits at passing-boats revs level. 

Any ideas?

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Prop clear and sound. Vibration occurs related to engine speed, at tickover, either in Neutral or in gear.  Dies away as revs build - either in gear or neutral.  He says it feels like a 'balancing' problem. I think mounts myself but bro says mounts seem fine - mind you neither of us knows what mounts not fine would be like, other than rubber bits in bilge or loose. 

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Are the brackets which attach the engine to the bearers via the rubber mounts in good order? I have seen welds split on fabricated mountings and the symptoms are as described.
Is it a packed stern gland and is this properly adjusted and greased? If loose it would allow extra movement.

Phil

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The earlier Beta 43 engines fitted with a Travelpower used a keyway on the crankshaft extension to drive the pulleys. This can wear and come loose.

Later ones from 2005/6 used the standard splined crankshaft extension to drive the pulleys. 

Hopefully it is not a loose keyway, but worth checking.

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2 hours ago, cuthound said:

The earlier Beta 43 engines fitted with a Travelpower used a keyway on the crankshaft extension to drive the pulleys. This can wear and come loose.

Later ones from 2005/6 used the standard splined crankshaft extension to drive the pulleys. 

Hopefully it is not a loose keyway, but worth checking.

...which I think is hard to do unless you loosen the belts.

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Pretty sure the keyway is fine - I am very aware of the early Beta travel pack shaft wear problem. This is a whole engine judder apparently, and only at tickover speed. Mount plates are sound - which leaves the mount rubbers and bolts as most likely in my book. Is there anything else that might lead to the engine bucking at tickover - unrelated to drive train?

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24 minutes ago, mross said:

Could it be a failing drive plate twixt engine and gearbox?

My money is on that. I had a similar set of symptoms a few years ago due to a failing drive plate. It was more of a knocking noise than actual vibration though.

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Shot in the dark fuel filter. 

My car diesel was pinking lumpy on low revs but was ok when foot was further down. Changed the fuel filter seems ok now. It was done a year ago. 

Probibably not the problem but just a thought 

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2 hours ago, billS said:

My money is on that. I had a similar set of symptoms a few years ago due to a failing drive plate. It was more of a knocking noise than actual vibration though.

When the drive plate failed on our last shareboat it sounded more like a tinkling sound. Indeed it thought I had picked up a bale of wire around the prop and it was brushing against the counter. 

Investigation revealed that two nuts had come off the driveplate and where being whizzed around inside the bellhousing. They had become almost spherical.

I have a photo somewhere. I must look it up and post it. 

Note, most driveplates do not fail it up now the way I have described, and usually start making clunking or rattling sounds.

Edited by cuthound
To unmangle the effects of autocorrect.
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Thanks all - brother has checked and right hand forward mount rubber is convex while the others are concave -  it has prolapsed I think. Next stop will be bits of rubber in the bilge.  Similar thing happened a few years ago I recall. Caused by the big alternator poking out atop the engine above it. Time for new mounts. 

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As promised, I have found the photo's I took of our drive plate failure. It was on BMC1.8/PRM150 and happened in 2010. 

I first noticed a "tinkling" noise as I turned onto the Ashby from the Coventry. Finding nothing down the weedhatch, I continued until the visitor moorings at bridge 5, a distance of less than a mile, to make access to the boat easier for the engineer.

The "tinkling" sound was the loose nuts circulating around the inside of the bellhousing.

DSCF1989.JPG

DSCF1990.JPG

Edited by cuthound
Spillung
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3 hours ago, Tigerr said:

Thanks all - brother has checked and right hand forward mount rubber is convex while the others are concave -  it has prolapsed I think. Next stop will be bits of rubber in the bilge.  Similar thing happened a few years ago I recall. Caused by the big alternator poking out atop the engine above it. Time for new mounts. 

Might be worth considering firmer mounts on the front end. That's what Beta specified on my original 1903 which had a SeaPower alternator as well as a large DC alternator as well. Worth a 'phone call at least??

  • Greenie 1
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Here is the latest. Just as we thought we had it sorted - 

The entire pulley drive shaft just fell off this PM. Clunk kerbang. Luckily within a few miles of the home base so didn't happen on the Thames in the middle of nowhere. So - looks like the problem was alternator drive related, and the known Beta 43 weakness. 

A shame as I spent a huge, huge amount of money last winter with a certain yard on the GU who reckon to be specialists in this having the whole lot looked at, and sorted out. 

I am now looking for a good engineer in the Cropredy area! I fear this may be an 'engine out' job but live in hope. 

Edited by Tigerr
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4 minutes ago, Tigerr said:

Here is the latest. Just as we thought we had it sorted - 

The entire pulley drive shaft just fell off this PM. Clunk kerbang. Luckily within a few miles of the home base so didn't happen on the Thames in the middle of nowhere. So - looks like the problem was alternator drive related, and the known Beta 43 weakness. 

A shame as I spent a huge, huge amount of money last winter with a certain yard on the GU who reckon to be specialists in this having the whole lot looked at, and sorted out. 

I am now looking for a good engineer in the Cropredy area! I fear this may be an 'engine out' job but live in hope. 

 

From old threads on the subject I think this means a new crankshaft as the machined end on the existing cranksahft will now be mullered (technical term). 

So yes, an engine out job. A good opportunity to fit a different, more reliable engine I'd say!

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