Steering

[Sam]

Hi,

Im not a newbie to narrowboating and i know the answer to this LOL but i thought i would get the newbie section rolling a bit so here goes:

 

 

How does one steer a narrowboat?

[Sam]

 

Welll.....

 

Lots of posts here then..

 

No wonder newbies arn't very good at stearing... LOL

[nbtafelberg]

Ok

 

I think of it like this - what you are doing is pushing the stern from left to right or the other way.

 

I would always advise starting with someone experienced helping you and showing you and doing it when the weather is calm and you are not on some fast flowing river.

 

The key to remember is the boat should go the opposite way to the way that the tiller turns. I.e. if you push the tiller arm to the port side the boat will go starbourd.

 

The difficulties come when you go accross very fast weir streams like on the THames at Shepperton where you turn into the River Wey, right now the weir stream there is like a white knuckle ride, your boat literally goes sideways and you have to do your jolly best to point the bow into the weir stream and get as far up as you can before turning into the navigation.

 

The key is ---- get some tuition. I am more than happy to give tuition and training, my 70ft boat has no bow thruster and a nice old lister engine, the difference in the winter to the summer is incredible. For instance our regular shopping trip to Staines takes about an hour to get there (upstream on the Thames) and about 30 minutes to get back when the river is flowing.

 

like wise on the river when you are mooring in the winter you *must* turn the boat to face the flow of the river, if not you may not be able to stop the boat, especially where there is a fast flow of water.

 

On canals ofcourse it is slightly easier.

 

Hope that helps.

[tommyhol]

I was always told to point the tiller at what you dont want to hit.

seems to work ok.

[nbtafelberg]

Very good - and true

[maffi mushkila]

Now I find this all to confusing. I understand the mechanics of it but it's not natural.

 

When I turn my steering in the car to the right it goes to the right.

 

In my flying days when I pushed the right rudder pedal in an aircraft the nose moves to the right and in conjunction with moving the stick to the right the aircraft turns in a cirlce to the right. This is calld 'instinctive control'.

 

Knowing that a boat does the opposite I have designed two separate mechanisms (both simple) to make the rudder on aboat 'instinctive' ie left to go left, right to go right. The models work. Whether it would work in practice or be efficient I don't know.

 

The designs both could be adjustable to give greater or lesser rudder movement for a given tiller arm input. Though one would be a manufacturing adjustment, the other could be adjusted insitu for personal preference. Theoretically you might never have to move the tiller arm more than a few inches to gain max rudder movement.

 

The designs are such that they could be built to give "left to go right and right to go left' (conventional) and with adjustment you may never have to push the tiller hard over again.

 

Any thoughts on 'instinctive' steering.

[John Orentas]

Maffi.

 

A friend of mine built a bicycle with the handlebars geared to work the wrong way, he used to lend it to church fetes and the like, if you could ride it you won a teddy bear. Perhaps you could do something similar with your boat.

 

The best advice I ever had for steering a boat. Stay on the shinny bit.

 

John Squeers

[maffi mushkila]

Maffi. A friend of mine built a bicycle with the handlebars geared to work the wrong way, John Squeers

Same principle.

 

I now have a third design that would allow the tiller to be moved one foot or so either side of the CL of the boat. This would allow the steerer to stand closer to the CL and it is still adjustable.

 

Each design has only 2 moving parts for instinctive control, 3 for conventional control, how simple is that.

 

You have to understand that I have a lot of free time on my hands here. If there was more to do, places to go and less danger going out alone, I probably wouldn't dream up such ideas

Edited November 8, 2004 by maffi mushkila

[weeble]

John, I had a go on one of those trick bikes once -- very difficult (when sober )

Edited November 8, 2004 by weeble

[maffi mushkila]

Maffi, it's beginning to sound like one of those trick cycles where the front wheel goes in the opposite direction to the handlebars 

See previous post

[maffi mushkila]

If anyone has any drawings of rudder installations with dimensions etc I could while away a few hours actually making my ideas work. Lets face it I have not much else to do.

[rustyduck]

On the subject of instinct,

 

In the same way that my instinct in a car is to turn into the skid rather than away from it (and so make it worse ). My natural instinct when steering a boat is to point the tiller the way I want the back end to go. The front then magically comes around in the direction that I had planned all along - (yea right)

 

A bit like a slow motion power slide around the bends.

 

Sorry - but it's that overactive imagination again.

[dor]

I was just about to say much the same as rustyduck. To get the "instinct" to work, think of which way you want the stern to go, after all, that is where you are. On a bike or car, you are more or less at the front, and you steer in the direction you want the front to go. On a boat you are at the stern, so push the tiller in the direction you want the stern to go.

 

I have found that explaining it this way to young children having their first go at steering helps them to work their "instinct" the right way.

[David Schweizer]

During the 1960's, I was a member of the permanent crew of a "Community Narrowboat" and one of our tasks was to train young people to steer a Narrowboat. It is interesting to note that whilst the Girls learnt very quickly, it could take a long time to train the Boys. Even today when the friends of my children take the helm, it is the Girls who learn more quickly. Now that may say something about the male ego, or perhaps Girls are just better listeners.

[John Orentas]

David.

 

I have found the same thing, non car drivers also pick it up more quickly. I think the problem is that some people must un-learn some habits and they have pre-concieved ideas, boys are much more likely to have messed about with bikes and go-karts.

 

I tell people to think of the tiller as an extension to the hull and you can put a bend into it like a banana.

 

John Squeers

[maffi mushkila]

To get the "instinct" to work, think of which way you want the stern to go, after all, that is where you are.

My natural instinct when steering a boat is to point the tiller the way I want the back end to go.

......explaining it this way to young children having their first go at steering helps them to work their "instinct" the right way.

 

Instinct is not a habit. Left to go left, right to go right is the natural order of things. One doesn't unlearn this 'habit', you simply learn a 'new do' that is opposed to the natural order.

 

Narrow boats are probably one of the few instances of L/R R/L, yes I know there are others. M/cycles for instance, but this is due to gyroscopic precession, and thinking back to aeroplanes pushing the right rudder pedal to make the nose go right actually achieves this by deflecting the tail to the left.

 

My gadgets are simple to make, cheap and might make me and others feel more comfortable at the tiller. If that helps to make better helmsmen is that not a good thing, besides reducing the tiller movement and so reducing the work load, such as it is.

Edited November 10, 2004 by maffi mushkila

[James York]

I agree that Narrowboats don't go against your instincts, you just learn a way of making it match instinct. I think of it as pulling the tiller left pushes the boat away from left. I learnt only a few years ago and it came very quickly, at first i was hopeless, a new day and foxton locks wiser and i was well away.

[maffi mushkila]

I agree that Narrowboats don't go against your instincts, you just learn a way of making it match instinct. I think of it as pulling the tiller left pushes the boat away from left. I learnt only a few years ago and it came very quickly, at first i was hopeless, a new day and foxton locks wiser and i was well away.

 

A very contradictory post.

 

You can agree all you want but it doesn't make you right.

 

How can NB's not go against your natural instinct?

 

L/L R/R is the natural order, you cannot argue this.

 

As you said you have to learn L/R R/L which makes it not natural.

 

Agreed once learned it be comes automatic but never natural.

 

The natural order is inviolable, it is what it is.

Edited December 2, 2004 by maffi mushkila

[James York]

The way people learn is diffrent for everyone. The steering part i am fine with the part of boating that catch's me out is the fact the boat pivots i the centre.

[Paul Evans]

With boats, and to quote Maffi, that's the natural order of things. I just think - when I do - to make the front go that way the back has to go this way and this is where I point the tiller. Hey presto!

 

But - and there has to be one - it just doesn't work in reverse. That's another story and deserves a thread of its own.

Edited December 2, 2004 by Paul Evans

[maffi mushkila]

The way people learn is diffrent for everyone. The steering part i am fine with the part of boating that catch's me out is the fact the boat pivots in the centre.

 

James, How you learn is not relevant. The fact that you learn means that you are stepping outside the natural order. You have to overcome the brains natural instinct for L/L R/R.

 

Learning L/R R/L is a "new do" once learned and we become experienced at it we think of it as natural, but that it can never be. Comfortable yes, automatic yes, but natural no.

 

PS There are those that would argue about the position of the turning centre of a boat. Not me I hasten to add I have never given it a thought.

[Martin]

Can I risk the wrath of the ladies aboard and suggest that the reason they pick up the steering thing more easily is that they don't consider what they are doing much.

My wife just follows instructions - whether right or wrong - whereas a man is more likely to put some thought into what he is doing and therefore get confused.

 

I took a male friend out for the day on our Dawncraft cruiser - which was equipped with a steering wheel.

He had done a little research beforehand though and asked another (narrow)boater about steering.

It was explained to him that you have to steer in the opposite direction to the way you want to go - and why.

I was baffled for a good while at how he seemed totally incapable of keeping a straight course and hit the bank on a couple of occasions.

Turns out he was applying his knowledge to the steering wheel and winding it left to turn right.

Hmmm.

No woman we ever had on board suffered from this affliction!

[rustyduck]

Hmmm, I think I have a problem with the idea that we have an basic instinct that can be applied to a wholly man made environment.

 

It's akin to saying we have instincts of how to move in zero gravity.

 

Surely instinct is the 'hard wired' reaction to certain stimulus. Ducking when something flashes by, that sort of thing.

 

Maybe it's the word instinct that bothers me - the word intuitive would be better. Just like a well designed menu system on mobile phones, videos etc. Steering a boat is a process that must be thought about, if you had never seen a tiller, would you assume that that's what you use to make it go in the way you want? If the process requires any degree of thought before hand, no matter how small, it can't be instinctive.

 

So I'll retract my comment, and say that I find the tiller intuitive to use.

 

This lot may not be relevant to the original post, but boy do I love the mental exercise!

[maffi mushkila]

The OE dictionary lists intuitave as

 

intuitive • adjective instinctive.

 

However it does not do the same for instinctive

 

instinctive • adjective relating to or prompted by instinct; apparently natural or automatic.

 

intuitive is the same as instinctive

instinctive is not the same as intuitive

 

So who knows what the right word is, I know I'm baffled.

 

I'm just gonna crawl back into my box and go to sleep.

[Paul Evans]

Goody! - The opportunity for a pointless discussion about the meaning of words, the vagaries of the English language. Concise OD has -

 

Instinct: Innate propensity, especially in lower animals, to certain seemingly rational acts performed without conscious design

 

Intuition: Immediate apprehension by the mind without reasoning

 

What a lower animal does by instinct higher animals do by intuition. The question is are you lower or higher?