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Alcohol limits for non-professional mariners


Paul_B

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See http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/speechesstatem...alcoholmariners

 

"The Minister of State for Transport (Dr Stephen Ladyman): Today, I am publishing, on the Department for Transport website (www.dft.gov.uk), the summary of responses to the consultation paper on ‘exceptions for the application of alcohol limits for non-professional mariners.’ Copies have been placed in the Libraries of the House."

 

"I have decided to propose that the exception under section 80 should apply to those persons exercising a function in connection with the navigation of a vessel which is less than 7 metres in length and is not capable of a maximum speed of over 7 knots. These parameters mirror existing provisions in international shipping legislation and so should already be familiar to mariners and the enforcement agencies."

 

Looking at the consultation documents which can also be found on the dft website, it appears to me that narrowboats (over 7m in length) would not therefore be exempt from these regulations, which would impose an alcohol limit, and allow BW to detain a craft while the Police are called to administer a breath test.

 

Oh dear B)

 

Paul

Edited by Paul_B
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Yes, I have heard about this on the news on Mr Marconi's wireless telegraphy apperatus.

There is not the slightest, tiniest, snowballs chance in hell that even the smallest, most half hearted token effort will be made at enforcement.

allow BW to detain a craft while the Police are called to administer a breath test.

No they won't, there will not be a BW man for miles when they are needed, and they will not be able to get past the civilian on the telephone whose job it is to say "Nothing we can do" to talk to the police, who will not turn out anyway.

The reason for this is that you can get half a distillery down your neck in the time it takes anyone to say "I'm calling the po-leece!"

Anyway, what will they do? take away your helmsmans licence?

I HAVE to stay drunk, for Nobber's sake.

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Whoever is going to police this is going to be VERY busy when it's windy with all the calls being made about boats going down the river 'in an erratic manner, swerving from side to side'!!!!!

Edited by BigRoj
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22 feet = 6.705 6 meter Hic, pour me another B)

 

needless to say, I will be reporting anyone i see drinking, on a boat bigger than mine.

 

And best thing is "off duty" personnel are covered by the same limits (if they are likely to be called to assist), this is going to be hilarious

Edited by fuzzyduck
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Yes, I have heard about this on the news on Mr Marconi's wireless telegraphy apperatus.

There is not the slightest, tiniest, snowballs chance in hell that even the smallest, most half hearted token effort will be made at enforcement.

 

No they won't, there will not be a BW man for miles when they are needed, and they will not be able to get past the civilian on the telephone whose job it is to say "Nothing we can do" to talk to the police, who will not turn out anyway.

The reason for this is that you can get half a distillery down your neck in the time it takes anyone to say "I'm calling the po-leece!"

Anyway, what will they do? take away your helmsmans licence?

 

Two years inside!

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But what about the business impact on the canal based pubs, when everyone is drinking diet-coke ?

 

Well, soft drinks seem to be hugely expensive in most pubs, and are often that horrible watered-down post-mix stuff. So perhaps they're more profitable than alcoholic drinks and the pubs will make much more money?

 

Paul

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After a terrible collision both boat owners clung to the only remaining capsized hull still floating. Boat Owner # 1) "Miraculously neither of us were hurt and I had the good fortune to be able to phone for help before sinking, it must be a sign that we're going to be best friends for a very long time." Boat Owner # 2) "You know, I think your right!" # 1) "Look over there, I think I see a bottle of red wine floating. I'll go a get it so we can celebrate our new found friendship." After retrieving the wine, the second boater took it and downed a goodly amount. # 2) "Here my friend", as he reached to hand the bottle to the first boater. # 1) "No thanks, I'll just wait until the police get here!" B)

Edited by Gary Peacock
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I think the key point here is not that the police will set up traps at bridgeholes to try and catch someone who has had a glass of wine while on the move. However if someone does cause an accident, and is found to be over the limit, it gives them a bit more teeth when it comes to making a prosecution. Many of us enjoy a glass of beer while on the move, or a glass or two of wine with lunch without turning into a menace of the waterways. There are though a small minority who get pissed out of their heads and think it is hilarious to speed down the cut bouncing off moored boats.

 

I would like to think that the policing of this will be moderated with a degree of common sense - maybe a forlorn hope - and it might just bring some of the idiots to book.

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Great news, just a shame it hasnt been brought in before.

 

Why?

 

Is there even the slightest evidence that the ability to navigate a boat at 4mph is sufficiently impaired by being above the drink drive limit to make legislation necessary?

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I think the key point here is not that the police will set up traps at bridgeholes to try and catch someone who has had a glass of wine while on the move. However if someone does cause an accident, and is found to be over the limit, it gives them a bit more teeth when it comes to making a prosecution. Many of us enjoy a glass of beer while on the move, or a glass or two of wine with lunch without turning into a menace of the waterways. There are though a small minority who get pissed out of their heads and think it is hilarious to speed down the cut bouncing off moored boats.

 

I would like to think that the policing of this will be moderated with a degree of common sense - maybe a forlorn hope - and it might just bring some of the idiots to book.

 

yeah?

 

After your lunch, you'll be a criminal, scum of the earth. The sort of people that the Daily mail thinks shouldn't have human rights protection.

 

it does your faith in human nature great credit, if you believe for one minute, you won't get a few plod at Foxton "Can I smell alcohol on your breath sir?"

Edited by fuzzyduck
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Is there even the slightest evidence that the ability to navigate a boat at 4mph is sufficiently impaired by being above the drink drive limit to make legislation necessary?
Quite a lot, in general terms: your judgement will be impaired. Whether this is a significant risk, in the operation of 200-year old technology, may be arguable.
However if someone does cause an accident, and is found to be over the limit, it gives them a bit more teeth when it comes to making a prosecution.

And a good thing too. But how can it ever be possible to prove

(1) that the person who caused the accident or fatality was under the influence at the time, and hadn't just had several 'steadiers' afterwards (just as Gary says);

(2) that the drunkard our gallant boys and girls in blue are accusing was actually steering at the time;

(3) that it wasn't the other person's fault anyway?

 

I hear the steady sound of filthy lucre dropping into the pocket of m'learned friend.

 

Personally, I shall continue to navigate, pint in hand (or on the hatch cover, as circumstances dictate) unless there are several locks to negotiate. I think that qualifies as sensible drinking.

 

Finally, I'd be surprised if anyone's third-party insurance would cough up if there were contributory negligence, ie too much alcohol, regardless of the 'alcohol limits' that may or may not be enforced. I don't think the minister's announcement makes a scrap of difference. It is a consultation paper, so not yet a done deal.

 

Ian

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yeah?

 

After your lunch, you'll be a criminal, scum of the earth. The sort of people that the Daily mail thinks shouldn't have human rights protection.

 

it does your faith in human nature great credit, if you believe for one minute, you won't get a few plod at Foxton "Can I smell alcohol on your breath sir?"

 

the legislation is, of course, full of holes.

 

1) It confers a power on BW to detain the boat, but not to detain the crew. So, when BW stop you and call for the police to test you, you can just walk away!

2) It confers a power on the police to board a boat, but not a power to require that the boat comes to the shore to be boarded.

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Personally, I shall continue to navigate, pint in hand (or on the hatch cover, as circumstances dictate) unless there are several locks to negotiate. I think that qualifies as sensible drinking.

 

me too, I'll just have my mobile in the other hand grassing you up to the plod.

 

On the flip side, can I smell an increase in the value of sub 7M boats?

 

My boats and outboards add

 

For sale Dawncraft 22

 

It's a bit scruffy, but you can have a pint while cruising.

 

£15,000

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And not a minute too soon, I am getting fed up of dragging corpses out of the canal that have been mowed down by these drunken boat drivers.

 

It's the control culture again, in all my years on the canals I can't recall a single incident that had been fuelled by excessive drinking. So why do we need any form of legislation for a problem that does not exist. As for the involvement for BW, they can't be trusted to carry out their existing simple tasks without them trying to exploit the situation for a profit, give them the authority to issue spot fines and they would manage to find a drunk at every lock.

 

Anyway more good news this morning, we will soon get the green flag to organise our vigilante groups to hunt down paedophiles and other sad characters, things are really looking up.

Edited by John Orentas
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me too, I'll just have my mobile in the other hand grassing you up to the plod.

 

On the flip side, can I smell an increase in the value of sub 7M boats?

 

Basically, it will mean that the only people who can knock back the drink are those on board very small day boats.

 

So, the only people who cause a problem by drinking on the canals will be exempt.

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Are you saying that the only problems caused by drink on the canal is caused by people in "very small day boats"?

Well, now you mention it....

 

Yes (apart from shore based problems that this won't fix)

more to the point, are youse calling my boat a "very small day boat"?

 

OK, accepted that there are boats other than day boats that are sub-7m.

 

The fact remains that the only boats that I have ever seen dangerously mishandled due to drink have been day boats.

 

From the DfT website, the results of the consultation that lead to this...

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/archiv...ollimits?page=2

 

Paragraph 6

 

Recognises that Narrowboats are "low risk" and that exemptions should be drawn so as to exempt them

 

As per bloody usual. Consult, then do something different to what the consultation says.

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And not a minute too soon, I am getting fed up of dragging corpses out of the canal that have been mowed down by these drunken boat drivers.

 

It's the control culture again, in all my years on the canals I can't recall a single incident that had been fuelled by excessive drinking. So why do we need any form of legislation for a problem that does not exist. As for the involvement for BW, they can't be trusted to carry out their existing simple tasks without them trying to exploit the situation for a profit, give them the authority to issue spot fines and they would manage to find a drunk at every lock.

 

Anyway more good news this morning, we will soon get the green flag to organise our vigilante groups to hunt down paedophiles and other sad characters, things are really looking up.

 

I have personally been killed on several ocaisions now by brunken doaters and have also killed many people whilst navigating drunk. I welcome this proposal both as a way of saving me from more horrible killing and also stopping me.

 

I find your remarks and misplaced irony most insenstive.

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Ok, so we mostly agree that for the inland waterways at least, this is largely a solution looking for a problem. But what is the legal definition of "Mariner", and does it include us?

 

 

The act doesn't use the term "mariner"

 

It says;

 

This section applies to a person who— (a)is on board a ship which is under way,(B)is exercising, or purporting or attempting to exercise, a function in connection with the navigation of the ship,

It goes on to say;

 

(a)“ship” includes every description of vessel used in navigation, and(B)a reference to the navigation of a vessel includes a reference to the control or direction, or participation in the control or direction, of the course of a vessel.

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