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Stern gland/ Venus prop shaft


tagulablue

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Hope this makes sense but I am just a bit worried because I have had the boat in for blacking and whilst out of the water I asked them to check for other maintance issues. When I got back they told me they had repacked the stern gland because there was no grease it it at all.. Now I was convinced it was a water seal and only needed the seal cleaning extras per maintenance instructions. After leaving I checked the engine bay when I moored for the night and it was full of smoke. I asked another boaterand he said they had either over packed or dropped some in engine bay.  It did clear...no water in bay(well jusr a bit of mucky rain water) but am I right to be niggles. Thanks Ann

 

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Yes a photo will certainly help.  In the meantime, if it is a Vetus gland, it only needs a squirt of grease, easily done if you buy the little tube (Volvo is the same except it is blue and afraction of the Vetus price). It should be done every hundred hours and is a five minute job.  If alignment is correct it shouldn't drip.

If it is a conventional gland, then it shouldn't get hot, but will if it has been over-tightened.  Overheating will make the grease hard and make it more difficult to subsequently seal.

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It's a vetus KWB  series with vetus gland..and R&D coupling. I know all the other boatyard have used silicon grease because I must have 3 half empty tubes that I keep forgetting to leave out for engineers. Will it have done any harm and should I go back and ask them to do what to rectify? I have attached a photo of front of instruction booklet. Hope this helps.  Many thanks Ann

20170704_202846.jpg

Edited by tagulablue
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And I would say the term "repacked" is highly questionable unless they added "with grease"

On the vast majority of boats repacking means something different. I am still wondering where the smoke came from unless they put their oily, greasy mitts all over the exhaust.

 

What does the invoice show and how many hours did they charge or it

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It normally only takes a few minutes at most to refill the Vetus gland with the silicone grease.  "Repacking" might be a bit of an overstatement.  If it was 'dry' then it can lead to excessive wear on the lip seals which could lead to dripping.  Also it can cause a groove to be worn in the prop shaft which will also lead to dripping.  You can often avoid having to replace the propshaft by moving it in or out a few mm.  Vetus recommend regreasing every 100 hours.  Undo the allen bolt, squirt the grease in through the hole, rotating the prop shaft a bit while you do so, then with grease up to the top of the hole, refit the allen bolt.  I also like to run a little bit of the grease round the outside of the seal, wiping it round with a finger.

The Vetus seal is very reliable, but many people do not realise that it needs greasing, with the right sort of grease (Vetus tube, Volvo tube or a syringe filled with silicone grease from a tub) and this can lead to its failure.  Poor alignment will also cause them to leak, and if left for too long can cause excessive wear on the rubber shaft supports inside the tube.  The tube coming out of the top needs to be vented, usually into the side of the weed hatch.  It does not need a forced flow, it is just to let the air out so that water can come in from the outboard end.

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I can remember doing "homework" on this type of seal because it was developed for the boats in the Netherlands where the seal was underwater and I worried because the seal was not so on our British n arrowboats... but the main question now is ... if check with boatyard and find out they have repacked as in traditional stern gland..? What do i ask them to do.. ps thanks again for all your advice... 

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Hmmm. I have the Volvo version which takes seconds to grease and certainly couldn't be described as 'repacking'. 40 quid's worth of work sounds like a much longer job to me, probably more in line with a standard stern gland repacking.  On face value, someone's either wrongly described the correct job or they have done what they have described which sounds horribly wrong. The smoke rather suggests the latter. Hopefully someone with a Vetus seal will be along shortly to give you sage advice. 

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10 minutes ago, tagulablue said:

I can remember doing "homework" on this type of seal because it was developed for the boats in the Netherlands where the seal was underwater and I worried because the seal was not so on our British n arrowboats... but the main question now is ... if check with boatyard and find out they have repacked as in traditional stern gland..? What do i ask them to do.. ps thanks again for all your advice... 

Just ask them what they packed it with, that's all.   The answer might be silicone grease or traditional gland packing and water resistant grease, if the latter's the answer they've had you over and probably not done anything to it at all.

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Instructions for mine say to use 'Volvo Penta Grease (Volvo 828250)' Every 200 hours.

Not tried it yet as we're only at 135 from new, more worringly, although I need to read again and more carefully the same document says change the seal every 500?

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12 minutes ago, Tim said:

Instructions for mine say to use 'Volvo Penta Grease (Volvo 828250)' Every 200 hours.

Not tried it yet as we're only at 135 from new, more worringly, although I need to read again and more carefully the same document says change the seal every 500?

My experience is with the Vetus seal, and I've not had any problem over several thousand hours.  It is greased regularly though and I know the alignment is spot on as I have a Python drive with the shaft going into a fixed thrust bearing.  On other boats however, it has also lasted many thousand hours without problem so I don't really go with this "500 hours".  Perhaps they are being cautious as a failed seal on a sea-going boat could be a serious problem.

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I have the Volvo version and haven't touched it in 12 (twelve) years, 4500 hours. Not a drip. There now, that's tempting fate isn't it? However this thread has prompted me to order a tube of grease.  Not easy to get hold of - this from a yacht chandlers on the South coast.  Or will any silicone grease do?

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1 hour ago, Tim said:

Instructions for mine say to use 'Volvo Penta Grease (Volvo 828250)' Every 200 hours.

Not tried it yet as we're only at 135 from new, more worringly, although I need to read again and more carefully the same document says change the seal every 500?

Mine's 8 years old. I've taken the view that age related failure mechanisms aren't catastrophic ones, particularly in the benign environment of a canal boat.  Either the rubber lip will wear and start to allow water to pass which will start with a minor drip or the rubber boot as a whole will begin to harden. Both of these will be seen early if you inspect regularly and grease it as required. I have a small drip tray under mine so that I can see the result of any leak immediately and I check it before and after every day's cruising - a quick look at the same time as I check the weed hatch and the engine bilge.

I use the oem Volvo grease. You only need a smidge - my first tube is the same age as the seal and is about half full.I've given it a stiff looking at when the boat's due out of the water in case I need to change it, but so far it looks and feels like new. It can be changed in the water too - just block the tiny holes in the stern bearing with a rag and very little water will pass while you do the job.

51 minutes ago, Mac of Cygnet said:

I have the Volvo version and haven't touched it in 12 (twelve) years, 4500 hours. Not a drip. There now, that's tempting fate isn't it? However this thread has prompted me to order a tube of grease.  Not easy to get hold of - this from a yacht chandlers on the South coast.  Or will any silicone grease do?

Well that seems to back up my theory above! I won't be changing my checks and maintenance regime, but it's good to hear of how much abuse these things can take.

Edited by Sea Dog
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10 hours ago, tagulablue said:

40.00 .. invoice says " check stern gland and 're pack"... actually said to me "we repacked stern gland because you had no grease in ..what so ever"

What M of C said.

The £40 charge on top of raising the invoice for the blacking looks like blatant bill inflation to me - bullshine baffles brains type of thing.

Unless the access was very difficult or they did more than refill with grease then the job shoudl not have taken more than 10 minutes including fetching the grease. That gives a labour rate of £240 an hour. I doubt even Thames yards charge that.  £40 might be a fair price at canal rates for actually repacking a packed gland.

I would very politely as for an explanation of how that £40 was arrived at. They may say its their standard charge for packing a gland. If so explain that Vetus glands do not require packing, only a little special grease inserting. If you do not get a satisfactory reply then mark them down a shysters and report the outcome on here, name & shame.

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Well thanks to all of you for advice and info. Rang the boatyard. They had repacked with grease and rope?  Apologised and asked me to bring the boat back in and they would sort out and correct any damage. 

Any advice on what i should be asking them to do...will it need new seal  or can he repair/degrease the old one. Thanks again 

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Frankly, If they've done that to a Vetus gland which would mean unscrewing 3 set screws and removing the seal housing to get the packing in, it should have become obvious that it was NOT a traditional gland requiring packing. But they should have known that it was a Vetus gland just by looking at it.  I wouldn't let the goons go near it again. Take it to someone who does know what they're doing.

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40 minutes ago, tagulablue said:

Well thanks to all of you for advice and info. Rang the boatyard. They had repacked with grease and rope?  Apologised and asked me to bring the boat back in and they would sort out and correct any damage. 

Any advice on what i should be asking them to do...will it need new seal  or can he repair/degrease the old one. Thanks again 

I find it remarkable that a boatyard hasn't come across a Vetus propshaft seal before, and tried to put grease and rope in it.  If they did, it could have damaged the whole seal assembly which is an out-of-water job to replace.  The seals themselves can be changed in the water.

A picture would still be helpful.

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Well if it really is a Vetus gland - that probably explains the smoke then. Absolutely unbelievable and gross incompetence. I can't even work out where they put the packing but suppose they might have slid the whole rubber assembly up the shaft and put it in the back of the rubber section.

I'd be tempted to take them a bunch of bananas and give it to them as a tip for their "engineer". Then take the boat elsewhere to get it sorted.

Now more than ever important to name and shame so others do not get caught.

 

Now you know why I was somewhat forthright when I criticised a marina manager/owner who advertised a job on here with the implication almost anyone would do for them.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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